Quotegloaming George, when I read several months ago of our Mg consumption, I was doubtful that you could live in any kind of equilibrium with that level of consumption. Not for long. But, I hafta say, you have this figured out, and I would have to agree with you that some of us are exceedingly poor absorbers of some of our nutrients. You especially. Just for ranging purposes, could you putby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteGeorgeN I have low kidney function, not out of 'normal' range, but rattling against the lower limit. Every time my blood has been taken and I see the results, my K levels are low. So, I drink about half a cup of coconut water each day, or I eat a couple of dried apricots as insurance. Beets are also an excellent source of potassium. When I first started looking at electrolyby hds - AFIBBERS FORUM
Quotegloaming I have low kidney function, not out of 'normal' range, but rattling against the lower limit. Every time my blood has been taken and I see the results, my K levels are low. So, I drink about half a cup of coconut water each day, or I eat a couple of dried apricots as insurance. Beets are also an excellent source of potassium. When I first started looking at electrolyteby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Too much of anything can kill you, including hyponatremia from too much water. All depends on the circumstances. An excess of magnesium can occur in people with reduced kidney function. Generally the first thing that happens when you ingest too much is loose stools (the range of intake where this happens is very individual - 100 mg on up). Excess in your serum will be excreted through healthyby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteCarey Mg oxide is a waste of money since it has such a pathetically low absorption rate (4%). The product with 7 different types is a silly gimmick. The other choices are all kind of a tossup and will provide similar results. Choose based on product quality, price, and how well you tolerate it. What nobody should expect is dramatic results or quick results. It won't cure your AF and itby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
While it can happen, usually bowel tolerance is the first limiting factor, then kidney excretion the second. I looked into this years ago, because of the quantity of magnesium I was taking. One person I came across was the now late Herbert Mansmann Jr. MD. He was a retired doc (pediatrician?) with T2. He was very overweight and had neuropathy. He used very large doses of magnesium to revby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteDavidK Wow George thanks for the equine link. Kind of hard to believe any magnesium product is 20% elemental magnesium as virtually all the others are 9-11% elemental magnesium. Wonder what their secret is...? I stay away from cheap, poorly absorbed varieties like magesium oxide. Without looking at the formula, I'm guessing it is because it is DI magnesium malate, or two magnesiumby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
JohnnyS... deficiency in intracellular magnesium... in this case, heart cells, is often the problem with ectopics.... (and many other issues as well)... but the cells must have optimal quantities of IC Mg for proper function...AND magnesium is not the only electrolyte that's involved. There has to be proper ratios for all to work together in synergy. The example we most often use iby Jackie - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuotePompon Decided that, for me, I needed to keep my intake around 3 g/day. George Do you really mean 3g Mg element/day? Such a dose would mean, for me, swallowing about 40 tabs of Mg glycinate/ malate a day. And what for the kidneys ? Yes. I take it usually in powder form - either di-magnesium malate powder or magnesium hydroxide. For the hydroxide, i put it in water in a specificby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Quotejpeters Also, too much magnesium causes low blood pressure and irregular heartbeat (along with muscle weakness, respiratory problems, etc, etc). I was concerned about this when I first started taking significant magnesium. What I learned is it can be an issue if one has kidney issues such that the kidneys don't excrete any excess. Dr Herbert. Mansmann was a pediatrician that sby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Mike, I think the bicarb is very bioavailable. Dumping protons is a good thing. In Jackie's first link, it says Stephen Ashmead, MS, MBA, is a Senior Fellow for Balchem Corporation. Turns out Balchem owns Albion that makes the mag glycinate product. < Now, I think Albion makes a good product, I purchase their di-magnesium malate powder in 3 pound bags. My own experience,by GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
In recommending measurement of intracellular (IC) electrolytes, in this case EXAtest and magnesium, it's important to clarify the confusion of reference ranges. The confusion begins with the word 'cell', leading unwittingly to suppose red blood CELL magnesium level is the same for muscle CELLs, this forum's concern being performance of cardiac muscle cells. But, RBCs (erythby Anonymous User - AFIBBERS FORUM
John, With regard to mag, the late Dr. Herbert C. Mansmann (who spent the later part of his life as a mag researcher) talks about it a bit here: < In my case, I started supplementing about 9 years ago and my tolerance has increased since. I started out at 800 mg/day, which was not bowel tolerance. I've been doing the low carb, high fat diet for about 5 years and really pushed the boby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Hi again, Justine -- continuing for full understanding, the following might be a bit repetitious. By the way, George quoted Dr. Herbert Mansmann using massive doses of magnesium at We can obviously be very different in magnesium handling. -- No, Mylanta can't be used, as Hans indicated, partly because of it's high amount of toxic aluminum. -- Again, use 3,600 mg magnesium hydroxby Anonymous User - AFIBBERS FORUM
Justine, I believe you can get powdered magnesuim hydroxide at the chemists to make the WW. Erling recently addressed this in another thread "a doctor who has cured himself if diabetic neuropathy by high doses of mg beyond bowel tolerance and living with the consequences for the 2 years it took, but possibly the issues around electrolyte balance were not so critical for him. "by GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Leo, Excellent questions. I wish I had good answers. My approach has been to "turn the hose on" enough to overcome the holes in the bucket. I have a lone affibber collegue who takes 5-6 grams elemental mag (in the form of di-magnesium malate) to keep himself in remission. As I recently posted antibiotics and an intestinal flue recently changed my bowel tolerance. However,by GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Mike, The idea is to ramp up in small increments. The citrate is less bioavailable and more likely to cause bowel issues than the chelate. Personally, I take, in round numbers, glycinate (800 mg), chloride solution (1000 mg), and bicarbonate solution (550 mg) (AKA Waller Water ). At this level I flirt with bowel tolerance, but put up with it. On p 77-78 of the late Herbert Hansmann MD isby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Hi Lisa, wishing you well! Erling We know well the magnesium-AF link. Probable the migraine link is nothing new to you, but just in case: A few excerpts from Making the Magnesium-Migraine Link: ....It's very likely that magnesium deficiency is a widespread cause of migraines, maintains Dr. Herbert Mansmann . Studies show that many people don't even come close to getting the Daily Vby Ron Rosedale, MD. - AFIBBERS FORUM
PS: - The above was copy/pasted from the excellent website , Herbert C. Mansmann, Jr. M.D. being a principal. From there one may link to many relevant writings. - Jackie's important 'mention' of these conditions in the thread below are from one of the books basic to her 'The Strategy - What metabolic Cardiology Means to Afibbers'. This is highly recommended reading:by Erling - AFIBBERS FORUM
This is an amazing website. Here are just a few excerpts from the page Making the Magnesium-Migraine Link: ....It's very likely that magnesium deficiency is a widespread cause of migraines, maintains Dr. Herbert Mansmann . Studies show that many people don't even come close to getting the Daily Value of magnesium, which is 400 milligrams. "On a daily basis, 30 to 40 percent of Aby Erling - AFIBBERS FORUM
The RBC magnesium test provides useful but limited information as a guide to magnesium therapy. Here's the logic: when the RBCs are formed in the bone marrow (2 1/2 million per second!!) they incorporate the mag that is in the marrow blood. Whatever magnesium is there at that time is the magnesium the RBCs will have, and will even lose some as they age (1). Unlike 'metabolically active&by Erling - AFIBBERS FORUM
In The Magnesium Factor, p. 31, Drs. Mildred Seelig and Andrea Rosanoff write: "...magnesium intake at the time RBCs are formed influences the level of magnesium in cells. Young RBCs contain more magnesium than do old RBCs. Given these facts, a doctor who suspects that magnesium deficiency may be causing early symptoms and orders a test for serum or RBC level will likely not get test results cby Erling - AFIBBERS FORUM
Hi Steve, Wanted to interject the story of the late Dr. Mansmann again. Dr. Mansmann was a retired, diabetic, pediatrician. He spent the last 20+ years of his life researching magnesium At one point he took 20 grams of mag a day for a year and reversed his peripheral neuropathy. The forms he listed as taking are as follows (I looked up their generic names)- Maginex: magnesium-L-aspartateby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
1) From: Lab Diagnosis of Magnesium Deficiency by Herbert C. Mansmann, Jr. M.D. "The current data shows that the sMg level only reflexes the tip of the iceberg of clinical MgD, and the loss of intracellular Mg content is equally important. The serum contains only 0.3% of the bodys total magnesium. More than half of the total content is in bones and nearly half is intracellular. The bone Mg isby Erling - AFIBBERS FORUM
Hi Jackie, So your comment, "400 is too much to take at one time." triggered my memory of something I read of Herbert Mansmann MD about high oral magnesium intake. Unfortunately, Dr. Mansmann died in 2007 (at 83) and the website of his Magnesium Research Laboratory of Thomas Jefferson University was taken down. For those who don't know, Dr. Mansmann was a pediatrician that spent the lastby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
There are some interesting articles on the potassium/magnesium connection here Self Care of Magnesium Deficiency by Herbert C. Mansmann, Jr. M.D. <; & more generallyby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Hi! Here's hoping this will be helpful: For some time my blood pressure had been rising. I tried many things to control it, all the time reading up on the subject -- various drugs and their action, the RAAS, salt (sodium) restriction, diet. Studying 'The High Blood Pressure Solution' by Richard D. Moore, MD, PhD, I gave his reasoning a trial by upping potassium (K) intake "by Erling - AFIBBERS FORUM
Barbara - Is your afib completely gone? At the risk of repeating once again, taking a fairly large dose of potassium and not also taking optimal magnesium could be asking for trouble. The rule is that you must have a very good base or optimal levels of intracellular magnesium before adding significant amounts of potassium. Otherwise, too much potassium w/o the optimal magnesium, can cause mby Jackie - AFIBBERS FORUM
Chuck: Suspect two things with minor leakage from mitral valve prolapse: ...dehydration and magnesium deficiency. With dehydration, the chords operating the valves become stiff and dont allow the valves to seat properly to allow for complete closure. Often its just as simple as hydrating well and often and taking supplemental magnesium. I have quite a few files if youd to read some of theby Jackie - AFIBBERS FORUM
We have many new readers since Patrick Chambers, MD, known here as PC and our physician expert, former afibber, now successfully ablated at Bordeaux., posted his classic piece in the Conference Room on Magnesium and Potassium (2003). PC has been a prolific poster, Father of the Brain Cramp, and has offered a tremendous amount of well-researched information and enlightenment about LAF. We oweby Jackie - AFIBBERS FORUM