How much magnesium?

What is the trick to determining the correct dose of magnesium to take? Yesterday I took a total of 2400MG. I felt good and it hadn't affected my bowels at all. That is until this morning when I woke up. I know you're supposed to increase the dose until your bowels are "comfortably" loose, but I think I overshot it.

I'm taking the chelated version of magnesium as well as the citrate. I'm also taking 1000mg taurine TID and 1500mg potassium TID. My serum magnesium has held at 1.7 since my release from the hospital last Wed., but I know the serum level doesn't really matter as that's not where the magnesium needs to be. I'm sure I need more as I've been having intermittent bouts of PACs. Wednesday I had them all day. I took about 800mg of magnesium Wed night and felt better in a few hours. Yesterday was great, but after this morning I think I may have lost some magnesium as the PACs are back, on and off, but nowhere near as bad as Wed.

Mike,

The idea is to ramp up in small increments. The citrate is less bioavailable and more likely to cause bowel issues than the chelate.

Personally, I take, in round numbers, glycinate (800 mg), chloride solution (1000 mg), and bicarbonate solution (550 mg) (AKA Waller Water [www.afibbers.org]). At this level I flirt with bowel tolerance, but put up with it.

On p 77-78 of [www.mpwhi.com] the late Herbert Hansmann MD is quoted. Mansmann was a retired diabetic pediatrician. He devoted his retirement to the study of magnesium. I've read many of his papers. I put this in to give you an idea of what is possible.

====================================================
Dr. Herbert Mansmann Jr., Director of the Magenesium Research Lab,170
who is a diabetic with congenital magnesium deficiency and severe peripheral neuropathy, shares that he was able to reverse the neuropathy and nerve degeneration with a year of using oral magnesium preparations at very high doses. “For example it took me 6 tabs of each of the following every 4 hours, Maginex, MgOxide, Mag-Tab SR and Magonate to get in positive Mg balance. I tell people this not to scare them, but to illustrate how much I needed to saturate myself. Most will only need 10% of this amount. I was doing an experiment on myself to see if it helped my diabetic neuropathy. It worked so I did it for one year, and I have had significant nerve regeneration. I could never have been able to do this with MgSO4 baths (Epsom Salt), since I could not get into and out of a bath tub” 171

“I was saturated at about 3 grams of elemental Mg per day, but went to 20
grams for over a year. I now take 5 grams, and stools are semi-formed, and the surrounding water is clear, 3-4 per day.” “Mg is very safe, since the gut absorption is regulated by serum Mg levels, and then the Mg stays in the gut and results in varying degrees of diarrhea. Then the dose is too high. Want soft semi-formed stools. Mine, while on high dosages of magnesium were liquid every 2-4 hours for 2 years, the electrolytes every month were normal, but for low potassium, part of my urinary Mg wasting, both.”

Dr. Mansmann concludes, “I have had diabetic neuropathy (DN) for over 10
years. The most significant symptom is my neuropathic pain of burning feet,
called erythromelalgia (EM). With the aid of Mg I can completely suppress the symptom, but if my blood glucose level is acutely elevated, because of a dietary indiscretion, the pain flares in spite of an apparent adequate dose of Mg. It goes away with extra Mg gluconate (Magonate) in an hour or so in either case. Without the Mg it will last for six plus hours, even though the blood glucose level is normal in about two hours.” “It is my belief that every one with diabetes should be taking Mg supplementation to the point of one’s Maximum Tolerated Dose, which is until one has soft-semi, formed stools.

In addition, anyone with neuropathy, without a known cause, must be
adequately evaluated for diabetes and especially those with poorly, slowly,
healing foot sores of any kind. Since the use of Mg is safe I see no reason that this should not be “the standard of care”.172
====================================================

George

Mike - one thing important to learn is that you don't gobble up handfuls of supplements thinking more is better... you need to use recommended doses...typically small... as George indicates and allow the body time to build up a storeage. If you flood with too much, chances are you'll only waste a good deal of it because the body can only absorb so much as one time.

That's why the directions for the programs are written in The Strategy and the post on Magnesium Absorption.

You you flood your body with a lot of potassium before you get the intracellular stores of magnesium optimized, you can make arrhythmia worse... because potassium won't work properly until the IC stores of Mg are where they need to be.

Serum magnesium doesn't reflect what's inside your heart tissue (cells) so it is virtulally worthless....other than ....if serum Mg is low, then it's almost a given that your IC stores are also low.

George is able to tolerate a very large amount of magnesium. It's important that to recognize that everyone is very different in that regard.

Slow, steady dosing is the only way to proceed, unless you are fortunate enough to be able to have the Intramuscular Injections or the IV infusion of magnesium.

Jackie

Thanks Jackie. They were giving me IV magnesium for 4 days while in the hospital. I didn't know about the potassium. I'll hold off on that until I get the mag levels up. I figured with the mag I would go until I had bowel issues. I think I was good Wed. until the final 400mg dose. I only took another 400mg because let's just say that's what my bowels would indicate I needed. Yesterday I took 1800mg total and I'm feeling fine as are my bowels, such as they are.

Yesterday I started having PACs after lunch that lasted for about 8 hours so maybe it was the potassium. This is getting to be such a balancing act between the a-fib and my diabetes. I started low carbing last December to get my blood sugar under control and help with my peripheral neuropathy. Once I started getting consistently good blood sugars and my glucose profile became more flat with readings averaging 80-90, with only occasional blips into the 90s or 70s did the afib develop. Then in May I started having a lot of constipation. The doctor's just wrote it off as a side effect of the diltiazem at first and then of the flecanaide and told me to "increase the whole grains and keep eating a low fat diet". They don't seem to listen to me when I tell them I got my blood sugar under control, lost 160 lbs and reversed my neuropathy by about 75-80% by eating a no grain/high fat diet (Bernstein's Diabetes Solution).

In any case my afib appears to correlate to my bowel issues. As my bowels became worse so did my afib. Despite taking 20-30grams of inulin fiber and a sodium docusate I have to strain for every BM whether hard, soft or loose. I've told the both my PCP and cardiologist and they don't seem concerned at all.

My cardiologist also doesn't seem concerned that I put on 6-7 lbs of fluid a day and then I'm up all night peeing it away. For 2 days I woke up at 257lbs, by bedtime I was bloated to 263-264 lbs. and woke back up at 257. This started after about a week on amiodarone. I told my cardio that I've felt worse since leaving the hospital and taking amiodarone than I've ever felt in regards to my afib. He checked my pulse and said I was in NSR. I asked about the skipped beats and he said they were PACs. When I told him I was having a lot of PACs and felt really bad like my heart was about to jump out of my chest and I was having a hard time at work concentrating to do my ****he said that at least it wasn't afib. Big deal! afib, aflutter, PACs. It's all the same to me. I feel it in my chest, I'm lightheaded, shorter of breath. What does it matter? I then asked if I could have something other than the amiodarone, maybe Multaq and he said amiodarone was the only med available at this point. When I told him that I was really scared that I'd have another episode of aflutter with 1:1 conduction would come back he told me if I felt it coming on to dial 911. Duh! Really? What kind of answer is that?! At least he told me that he would contact my ep and convince him to move up my ablation since I was having so much trouble.

After two days of trying to get an update I find out that my cardiologist is going away for 2 months and he couldn't get in touch with my EP. It seems my EP is visiting his gravely ill father.I guess I'll have to deal with this until the end of May, so I figure at this point I'm on my own. Hopefully I'll be able to beat this thing with diet and supplementation as I did diabetes. If not I don't know what I'll do. Sometimes I just wonder what the point of it all is. The more I try to get my health under control the worse my life seems to get. I just want to this fixed.

Hi Mike - you deserve a huge amount of credit for losing that much weight and managing your blood glucose. That's fantastic!

The bowel issue is undoubtedly the aftermath of the whole process. Detoxification of one's system is important and should go hand-in-hand with any weight loss program so that you begin to restore all tissues, but especially that in the GI tract. Bowel transit time is essential to health.

Additionally, I understand about the sodium docusate as a stool softener, but keep in mind that if it contains a significant amount of sodium, then it has the potential to upsets your potassium to sodium ratio....and keeping potassium optimal is the key to NSR. With a quick online search, I was unable to determine the sodium content to see if it would be a concern...most likely it is, but not sure. So, with that in mind, I'd be adding small amounts of potassium along with plenty of potassium-containing foods to help offset the potential of the added sodium. (see the current Conference Room topic #72 on the importance of the optimal function of the Sodium/Potassium pump mechanism.)

Plenty of fresh vegetables...leafy greens etc will help increase fiber, but you'll probably need to use a fiber supplement... and one that is just plain fiber with none of the flavorings or sweeteners added... If you get in enough fiber, the bowel issue will resolve.

You also should consider using daily a high-count probiotic. Most people don't have nearly enough of the good intestinal bacteria and using a probiotic is part of the detoxification program described as the 4R system.

Here's a clip that explains the 4R plan:

The Four R Program stands for the four steps in the management of the patient: These steps are:

1.Remove
2.Replace
3.Reinoculate
4.Repair

So how is the Four R Program applied?

Remove Phase: In this phase the patient removes the common allergy-producing foods including grains containing gluten and dairy products. A low allergy potential diet utilizing rice-based products, legumes, fruits, vegetables, fish and poultry is prescribed. If the patient is suffering from chronic infections of the sinus, oral cavity or intestinal tract, these are treated. The exposure to toxic chemicals and toxic metals such as mercury is also eliminated.

Replace Phase: While removing the substances that might disrupt the function of the immune system, the patient is evaluated for their sufficiency of digestive enzymes and proper stomach acid. The best "test" is whether the person can properly digest a normal meal without complaints of bloating, gas formation, or reflux. If this is a problem the Functional Medicine doctor will recommend the use of digestive aids such as digestive enzymes to be taken along with meals.

Reinoculate Phase: In order to improve intestinal immune function and thereby improve whole body function, the patient will be prescribed a combination of a therapeutic dose of a well researched and medically documented probiotic (3-5 billion live organisms). The most well-researched probiotics are specific strains of acidophilus and bifidus bacteria that are normal inhabitants of a healthy intestinal tract. The probiotics are recommended to be taken along with a prebiotic supplement such as inulin, fructooligosaccharides or arabinogalactans. Prebiotics are specific food fibers that are used by the friendly probiotic organisms as their 'food" in the intestinal tract to improve their therapeutic value. This reinoculation phase of the Four R Program should be done in escalating doses over a two week period to allow the intestinal tract to adjust. If the dose of the probiotics and prebiotic is increased too quickly it can result in excessive intestinal gas formation and discomfort.

Repair Phase: After two weeks on the reinoculate probiotics and probiotics supplement, the patient then adds additional nutrient supplements to promote proper repair of the intestinal lining. These supplements include the amino acid L-glutamine (6-10 grams per day), pantothenic acid (500-1000 mg per day), zinc citrate (10 mg per day), omega 3 EPA/fish oil (1-3 grams per day), vitamin E as mixed tocopherols (400 mg per day), and the amino acid glycine (6-10 grams per day).

Source
Chronic Illness: What Works? Part One: The Four 'R' Program
Jeffrey Bland, PhD
[www.huffingtonpost.com]


As far as getting doctors to understand your success with your program, it's probably not going to happen unless you deal with a nutritionally oriented practitioner. It's something you just have to do on your own and then let them marvel at your success. I've gotten to the point that I don't even bother to share my very long list of nutritional supplements with the conventional medicine practitioners because it just wastes appointment time. I just say I take a multi vitamin, vitamin D3 and Omega 3 fish oil and they seem satisifed with that. I have been fortunate to be in the care of a Board Certified Family Practice MD who is also certified in Functional Medicine.

Jackie

"As far as getting doctors to understand your success with your program, it's probably not going to happen unless you deal with a nutritionally oriented practitioner. It's something you just have to do on your own and then let them marvel at your success."

Repeated for emphasis. I am "breaking in" a new set of doctors myself and i need to remember this.

PeggyM

Hi Jackie. I starte taking probiotics Wed on the advice of an old friend who is a cardiac RN who now owns her own holistic health care center. I went to her shop to get my supplements. I told her about how the doctor's just ignore my bowel issues. She's also a nutritional coach and after asking me a few questions recommended a good probiotic. I've been taking Natren's Healthy Trinity which contains:

Lactobacillus acidophilus , NAS 5 billion cfu
Bifidobacterium bifidum , Malyoth 20 billion cfu
Lactobacillus bulgaricus , LB-51 5 billion cfu

Hopefully this will help me out. As for the way I eat there are certain things I WILL NOT EAT in order to keep my blood sugar under control. These are anything based on grains (wheat, oats, corn, rice, etc.), no starchy vegetables (peas, potatoes, etc.). No beans or legumes, with the exception of green beans. No fruits with the exception of olives and avacados. I also limit my intake of onions (shallots make a lower carb substitute) and tomatoes (just a slice or a couple of cherry tomatoes here and there). what I do eat are spinach, greens, broccoli, cauliflower, red and green peppers, okra, asparagus, cabbage, lettuce, etc. I also eat mushrooms. I do have to make sure I don't bulk up too much though as stomach distention can cause the blood sugar to rise. I keep the servings to about 1/2 cup cooked, and with the raw leafy greens and lettuce to about 2 cups for when I have a salad. Most of the time it's fresh, but sometimes I have to resort to frozen. rarely do I used canned vegetables, except in a pinch.

As for meats I prefer beef, but also have poultry and fish at least twice a week. Sometimes I have pork chops or ribs. I avoid lunch meats, but have the occasional liverwurst. For organ meats I'll occasionally have liver or beef heart. For breakfast I'll sometimes have leftover meat or 2-3 slices of bacon. I also eat tuna packed in olive oil, the same with sardines and kippers. I also eat salmon, cod, haddock and halibut. Shrimp and crabs too.

For condiments I make my own mayonnaise out of eggs and olive oil. My salad dressings are home made out of olive oil, vinegar (mostly organic apple cider vinegar). I've even made "ketchup" out of roasted red peppers, but not for a while. As for salt I've been mixing salt and potassium chloride as a 50-50 mix since last April.

For fats I only use coconut oil, olive oil, butter (I prefer it from pastured cows).

I almost forgot about eggs. I generally have an egg for breakfast every day, although sometimes I'll make a frittata for dinner or have an egg next to some fried kippers.

For dairy I have heavy whipping cream in my decaf coffee along with 2 tabs of saccharine (saccharine and bicarbonate).

Speaking of artificial sweeteners, I avoid diet sodas, preferring club soda or sparking mineral waters. If I do occasionally have a soft drink I try to find it sweetened with saccharine or splenda. The only aspartame I get is the small amounts found in the chewing gum I like to have after meals. According to the ingredients it's in the less than 2% section. However, I'm giving up the gum and instead I am resorting to toothpicks inmpregnated with tea tree, peppermint and spearmint oils to freshen my breath after meals.

I avoid processed foods, but I do like sunflowers seeds and jack links beef sticks. I've decided to cut these out do to the sodium content as well as bacon and all lunch meats. The sunflower seeds will be the hardest to give up as I love them. I've also given up the merlot that I used to enjoy on Friday/Saturday nights.

I also use Metamucil Clear and Natural fiber. It's 100% inulin fiber and I swear that it helps keep my fasting sugars down. they were about 10 points higher before I started using it. I take about 20-30g a day.

Other supplements include a daily multivitamin, 5000IU vitamin d3, 3g fish oil. Of course I'm trying to figure out the magnesium and potassium. today I had 400mg of chelated magnesium and 1000mg taurine. I'm holding up on the potassium, but have switched for the Na/K mix to just the potassium chloride salt substitute. With the exception of a few servings of sunflower seeds, for the past 3 days have been avoiding salt.

My transit time is good. Before going in the hospital I was having a daily BM and sometimes two. I noticed I was starting to get gassy so I stopped taking the dulcolax. The problem with the constipation that concerns me is not so much the regularity, but the fact that I have to always strain. Like I told the doctor it's almost as if my nether regions forgot how to do the job. A person with the runs shouldn't have to strain to get it out and then be left feeling like the ****isn't complete, but that's what I've been dealing with for the past few months. On my next visit I'm going to demand to see a specialist. Of course that means paying someone else to ignore me or prescribe more toxic meds that will lead to yet another thing that will impact my health.

I wonder sometimes if these doctor's even know what they're talking about. The last time I was in the hospital I was thrilled that my HDL had finally gone up and my triglycerides went down. My total cholesterol was 138, HDL 47, LDL 75and TG 80. This was up from the previous lab of total 128, LDL 73, HDL 36 and TG 94. Here comes some doctor trying to talk me into taking a statin. I asked for what and he proceeds to tell me that since I'm a diabetic I need to be protected. I asked if he had seen my labs and told him with a cholesterol of 138 and an A1C of 4.3 I didn't need protection, I'll protect myself and told him to get out of my room I can't believe these people sometimes. I'm so glad to find a place like this where there are others having the same issues where we can all learn from one another. In this instance I'm still learning, but hopefully with the help of the good people here I'll get this sorted out and maybe that will help someone else.

Mike - you are certainly the "poster guy" for assuming control of your own health issues!! Thanks for taking the time to detail how you've managed to achieve your success. Impressive. I'm glad you have decided to rule out processed meats because there is nothing good that can come from eating those chemicals and the extra sodium.

Just a word of caution... it's not good to stop salt (sodium) intake abruptly. You should gradually cut back over a week or two and then calculate your dietary intake to meet the ideal 4:1 ratio of potassium to sodium. If you rush it, you can have some lightheaded and dizziness.

You have to excuse the doctors who haven't learned about nutrition but rather just take the word of the drug company reps as a substitute for further education in nutritional health. We are all intelligent individuals and once we become burdened with Afib, most of us have become self-educated in the nutritional aspect of what we need to know. While my background is in dental health, the requisite courses in nutrition pale by comparison to that which I've learned while conquering insulin resistance from beta blockers, adrenal burnout from stress, hypothyroidism and on and on. My experience is that while I may see medical specialists for the various ailments, for the most part, they are woefully ignorant about nutritional support to correct the problem and seem to rely on drugs to mask the symptoms rather than get to the core cause.

Sunflower seeds are good but they should be raw rather than processed and salt-free. Same with nuts. Raw.

People with glucose handling issues do best using plenty of healthy fat in their diet and only moderate amounts of protein and low carbs. As Dr. Rosedale indicates, the daily intake requirement for carbohydrates is zero.
In diabetics or those who are insulin resistance, fat intake does not cause the interference with insulin or leptin that protein and carbs do.

Once you become totally satisfied with your weight, glucose handling, and afib concerns.... you may even find that you can have small amounts of your favorite merlot occasionally.

Keep up the good work and do keep us posted on your progress.

Best to you,
Jackie

Thanks Jackie. I had a bit of dizziness when I got up to go fix lunch. I'll add a little sodium back in. As for raw seeds and nuts, they're hard to find. I don't know if this is still going on, but the Almond Board of California was labeling pasteurized almonds as raw

[www.naturalnews.com]

I've found raw almonds, but haven't been able to find a local source of raw sunflowers. I'd like to get some to roast myself using less sodium. It's so hard to control what you get because the food supply is so tainted. If I could live on air and water only I would. Unfortunately, I need to eat to live and it's a perpetual minefield I have to navigate through on a daily basis. "How will this affect my blood sugar? Will it bring on an episode of afib? How will it affect my digestion?" Feeding oneself properly shouldn't be this difficult.

repeated for emphasis: "it's a perpetual minefield I have to navigate through on a daily basis. "How will this affect my blood sugar? Will it bring on an episode of afib? How will it affect my digestion?"

Speaking as one who has been negotiating that minefield myself, with varying degrees of success, personally. I do sometimes stumble and set off an episode, but each one of them is an item of information too.

But that is very aptly put, that bit about the minefield.

PeggyM

Mike,

Great job! One correlation of A1C to average blood sugar is:
Avg blood sugar = A1C x 35 - 75
In your case this would yield an average blood sugar of 75.5.

I'm guessing not many of the diabetic patients of your doctors' are in this range!

Dr. Bernstein [www.diabetes-book.com] has a target of 83 for himself. In the linked book, he publishes his blood lipids at age 77, having had Type 1 diabetes for 65 years. His stats look like those of an Olympic athlete, as do yours. You should be commended. Your program is many times better than statins for protection.

George

"“It is my belief that every one with diabetes should be taking Mg supplementation to the point of one’s Maximum Tolerated Dose, which is until one has soft-semi, formed stools. "

Once more, a repetition for emphasis. My own belief is that everyone with afib should be doing exactly this, as well.

PeggyM

"Like I told the doctor it's almost as if my nether regions forgot how to do the job. A person with the runs shouldn't have to strain to get it out and then be left feeling like the ****isn't complete, but that's what I've been dealing with for the past few months. "

Mike,

I'd certainly want a colonoskopy in your situation. I'd keep my stools loose, but I'd be worried about some kind of obstruction.

George

We just came back from the Army/Navy/Air surplus store. Bought a set of seat belts as used in the F18 and intend to install them on the toilet for those days that I screw up and take too much Mg.

Of one thing, in my experience, I can assure you, or more humbly.... attest to. And that is simply that Magnesium Glycinate (Chelated-Albion Process) causes a whole lot less trouble than ANY other form I have managed to ingest. I am presently at 400-600 mg. daily in two or three divided doses and seem to be exactly where I should be in terms of bowel tolerance most of the time. I have just backed off to 400 mg. twice a day, with breakfast and at bedtime to see if my occasional encounters with "Montezuma's Revenge" subside or are avoided. Then we will remove the F18 harness from the toilet.

I worry that crossing the tolerance line and having the resultant explosive trots also flushes all of the other good nutrients and supplements from my system so this is a multi-whammy IMHO.

Think I will stick with 2 x 200 mg a day for now and increase to 3 x 200mg a day when I am sure the cause is the Mg. Have also backed off the Vitamin C from 1,000mg time release twice a day to once a day.

One thing is for sure in regards to Mike's comments. Firstly, if you have not had a colonoscopy in the last couple of years I would want one for my peace of mind right now. Secondly, as one with a relatively sensitive GI system it has been my experience that after a bout of 'the trots' my intestines are messed up for at least a week, sometimes two or more, until they start their rhythmic churning to move stool along the path to sunshine. Ditto constipation but in reverse. The stool has sat there so long that one's intestine(s) tend to expand to make room and as a consequence the rhythmic squeezing to move the stool along becomes ineffective and you get the results you are describing. We have that T shirt in this family in spades.

Having said that, I personally do not believe that a person with diarrhea should have to strain, etc., but the fact it that your intestines are not being exercised to move stool along in rhythmic contractions. It could be that you have a small amount of solid stool followed by watery stool followed by solid stool. The only one that can begin to make a dent in diagnosing this will be your proctologist. I have been there as well based on diet and the results are exactly as you describe.... strain to get things going followed by explosive diarrhea once 'the plug' has been passed. And sometimes followed by yet another 'plug' that holds up the works and makes on feel that total evacuation has not taken place.

To me, loose and formed stools are that fine line that when reached give as much satisfaction as a large tax refund unexpected from the IRS.

Murray L. wrote:
>
> To me, loose and formed stools are that fine line that when
> reached give as much satisfaction as a large tax refund
> unexpected from the IRS.

Hahaha. Thanks for the info. I set up a referral with Hopkin's new online system. Due to my symptoms they had the triage nurse give me a call. I told her I'd been telling my doctor for the past 3 visits, but every time I see him there is a trainee there (medical intern, nurse practitioner, etc.). I told her I had seen him last on April 1 and when I told him I felt like I was going to blow a gasket every time I attempted a "movement". He chuckled and told me "Don't blow a gasket, just take Miralax". After she spoke to my doctor she called back and said he had no record of me ever complaining about constipation. Jeez! I can't believe it. I've told my PCP, my cardio, my EP and every doctor in the hospital. I've explained that the straining puts me into a fib and I think it's related. It's like they just plug up their ears whenever you mention anything poo related. Anyway, I demanded that I see a specialist. I told her I don't want to get checked out and have the doctor say, "Sorry, if we had only seen you a year ago we could have gotten this". Anyway, I'll try the Miralax that was suggested until I can get to a GI/proctologist or whatever. I doubt it will work any better than the dulcolax, inulin, psyllium husks, ground flax seed, milk of magnesia, mineral oil, etc., but maybe I'll get lucky and not end up turning myself inside out. And to think I thought it was bad before taking the amiodarone.

Mike L., if you are the least bit constipated, then you are definitely not taking enough magnesium glycinate. Are you taking any of it at all, or are you using the worthless oxide form or even worse the laxative citrate form? The kind lots of people here use [myself included] is the Doctor's Best kind from Hans' vitamin contact at iHerb.

The drill on this stuff is to start small and increase slowly, keeping good records of how much you took when so you can tell what is happening. Start with one tablet at night before bed, and if nothing untoward ensues, increase to one tablet with each meal and one at bedtime. Then increase to 2 tablets with each meal and 2 at night, then to 3 and so on until you find a dose that gives you diarrhea. Stop there and decrease until you find a dose that will produce 2-3 soft bowel movements each day, but no liquid diarrhea. This dose is called the bowel tolerance dose, and it is different for different people. You are unique in this regard, as is everyone, and must experiment to find what the right dose is for you. Nobody can tell you what this bowel tolerance dose is, you have to find it out yourself by trial and error. After a while it may change, too.

Best to you,
PeggyM

I've been taking 200mg of the Bluebonnet chelated magnesium glycinate for over a week now. I overdid it at first taking 1200 the first day along with 1200 or more of the magnesium citrate and it hit me hard. I woke up early this AM with my toes cramping (my usual signal that I'm low) so I'm adding in another 200mg today and another 200mg tomorrow and see how that goes. My constipation problem may be more than just lack of magnesium. I've taken enough to loosen my bowels, but my problem isn't so much with the consistency. It could be water and I have to strain like I'm about to turn myself inside out. I'm being mailed a referral to the GI and I'm going to set up an appointment ASAP because something is seriously wrong here.

Mike, for all i could know, you may indeed have some physical problem here. By all means consult the appropriate medic. But i have a serious problem with this sentence here:

"I've taken enough to loosen my bowels, ..."

Yes, when you took the citrate along with the glycinate it loosened your bowels. One time effectiveness is not the point here, but instead what regular intake should do is change the regular, day-to-day consistency toward something easier for your body to cope with. Specifically not diarrhea one day and constipation the next. What you say about having to strain even in diarrhea is worrisome and does not seem right to me either, though i am a long way removed from you and not as up on bowel troubles as i am on afib and electrolyte ones. The toes cramping is a symptom i recognize and see it the same way you do, as a sign of Mg deficiency. Does an epsom salts bath help you with that? It does for some of us. Try it and see?
PeggyM

PeggyM wrote:

>Does an epsom salts bath
> help you with that? It does for some of us. Try it and see?
> PeggyM

Yes. I take about 4 a week. I've been in a fib, hopped in the bath and am back in NSR in about 5 minutes. I'm wondering if spraying on some magnesium oil would have the same effect. Speaking of magnesium, I finally got up to double my magnesium dose (now 1200mg/day). I also tried the Miralax my PCP recommended. Either the magnesium or the Miralax worked because yesterday was pretty good bowel-wise and there was no straining for the 1st time in a while. Hopefully this will continue, but I setup a GI appointment for the 28th and have them check. Better safe than sorry.

Mike, a lot has been said here about topical application of magnesium, via Mg oil and other methods. Use the search function with the search term "magnesium oil", in quotes just like that. Search the archived forums as well as this one.
PeggyM