Statins

What's the thoughts on Statins? I'm on a very low dose of Rosuvastatin 5 mg. I think my knees ache some and I have some shoulder impingement increase(may be coincidence I don't know) anyway I researched why Statins affect muscles and the main reason is they deplete Magnesium.
Should an afibber take statins ? Are we trading off here I suppose being blocked up may affect afib also huh?

Do you take COQ10 along with your statin? No downside to doing it and a good likelihood it will help with any statin side effects.
I take Qunol liquid from Costco and have for years. I've had a nuclear bone scan which shows arthritis in joints and aside from a couple of arthritis issues I have no joint or muscular issues.

Here's what the Mayo Clinic has to say about the combination: [www.mayoclinic.org]

And here's the condensed version:
"Statins have been found to reduce the amount of naturally occurring coenzyme Q10 in the body. Because coenzyme Q10 plays a role in muscle cell energy production, some researchers have proposed that taking a coenzyme Q10 supplement might reduce the risk of muscle-related side effects.Nov 11, 2016"
Gordon

Hi tsco. Long ago (’87) and before I developed Afib, my Internist was prescribing statins as the latest, best drug for everyone. My cholesterol was 200 and he insisted I begin…. So I did. In about 6 weeks, I developed leg muscle weakness which progressed to where I was unable to hop on one foot. (I still can’t – so the damage was permanent).


Here’s a short report from Mayo Clinic summarizing potential side effects.
[www.mayoclinic.org]


There is also an informative book by David Brownstein, MD… The Statin Disaster …. which emphasizes the risks of using statins.

Brownstein will show you why the cholesterol = heart disease hypothesis is a failed paradigm. Statins are associated with a host of serious adverse effects including ALS, breast cancer, cancer, congestive heart failure, kidney and liver damage, memory problems, muscle weakness, neurological disorders such as Parkinson's disease and thyroid disorders. [www.drbrownstein.com]

More reviews: [duckduckgo.com]


Best to you,
Jackie

1987 was over 30 years ago. Medicine has evolved a bit since then and Dr. Brownstein's assessment of statins as a disaster doesn't match current reality, but it does make an alarming book title.

Quote
Carey
1987 was over 30 years ago. Medicine has evolved a bit since then and Dr. Brownstein's assessment of statins as a disaster doesn't match current reality, but it does make an alarming book title.

Indeed, significant research over several decades has demonstrated the potential benefit of statins to AF. Particularly interesting is the inducement of hyperbilirubemia by most statins, which was previously thought to be universally negative, but for which there is now significant evidence of a protective effect against cardiovascular and neurodegenerative disease.

Statins made my hips ache, so bad I looked at hip replacement. I discussed with my doctor to try and stop statins for awhile and he agreed. Within 3 months the hip pain went away but my LDL went high and was told I was heading for a heart attack if I didn't continue with the statins.
This alarmed me, so I did a LDL particle test and found i had very little of the small bad LDL which does the damage and high in the good big fluffy stuff.
My HDL was normal and my triglyceride level was low.
That was 3 years ago and I have not taken a statin since. My blood presure is good about 120/75ish and my blood sugar level is normal. And no sign of a heart attack.
After researching statin and its effects i believe it's better if you can live without them.
They don't help afibbers much as they, among other things inhibit the production of vitamin K2, I could elaborate but won't for now.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2019 01:29AM by colindo.

Statins have a much lower number needed to treat (NNT) for secondary prevention (meaning you have existing heart disease) than primary prevention (means you don't have existing heart disease). Lower NNT is a good thing. Means that statistically you need to treat fewer people for one person to benefit.

One of the issues with a relative lack of side effects in the studies is they all have a "run in period." This is true for all meds. Many people who have issues with the drug get excluded at this point. So not really a true picture of the propensity to have side effects. One doc who had profound negative effects from statins was the late Duane Graveline, former astronaut and MD. One of the most troubling side effects for him was transient global amnesia (TGA). He created the SpaceDoc website and wrote there <[spacedoc.com] My opinion is statins have their place, but handing them out like candy is inappropriate.

Thanks for the link George! Interesting!

@tsco — Since statins can help with cholesterol and plaque, I’d think they'd make a lot of sense for afibbers... as we share a major interest in reducing stroke risk.

If it turns out we’re one of the few that experiences statin side effects, then that would need to be balanced in... but out of the box, statins may be our friends.

@Jackie — Thanks for sharing the link to the MC piece. Excellent!

/L

Statins also interfere with CoQ10 production. Isn't CoQ10 an important factor for cells producing energy and a marker for cellular aging?

If Insulin resistance is a contributing factor to afib then that needs to be watched - especially when taking statins?
[www.afibbers.org]

Didn't Nathan Priticin reverse his plaque with diet???

Should add that there are more current researchers who propose other methods to reverse plaque. Don't know if you think Dr Dean Ornish is a credible source? Anyhow, you may want to go to 17:20 if the whole talk fest is too much
[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2019 05:52PM by Joe.

Depends on your medical history. If a female, one has a higher chance of developing small vessel disease. Cedar Sinai director dr Baily Merz specializes in small vessel disease which you may consider reading her views on the cedar Sinai website. Although two CT angios shows 0% plaque buildup, the test doesn’t test the plaque in ones small vessels. If you read up on small vessel disease, they remark it causes a higher incidence of sudden death heart attacks for women.

If you are getting statin symptoms switch drugs. I went on 3 others until I found Crestor which is symptom free. I had the same Berkeley test and mine originally showed bad particles so I am on fish oil and twice a year the test is repeated and my scores in certain areas have gone from red to orange and a few went from red to green.

I think it’s hereditary. I raised my kids with fat free milk, low white sugar added sweets (honey instead), lean chicken breasts cooked without the skin and visible fat removed. and egg whites and we all have high cholesterol. In fact a cute story my daughter told us once as a child she went to a sleepover and came home excited to tell me her scrambled eggs were yellow. She thought it was a special egg...just to show how careful her diet was with good fats-avocado fats-and omega rich fish meals, and low cholesterol food choices.

All up to good or bad genes. My MIL served fatty veal patties during the week and fatty brisket on weekends with home made chicken soup with a top layer of fat and added chicken fat to everything (I admit I took a taste once and it was delicious) and she had a 300 score, never took a statin and lived to 98 with natural black hair with a singular tiny patch streak of white hair.

Thanks for the 'links' Susan!
Listened to Dr Merz's TED talk and looked up Berkley test.

Quote

LDL Particle Size -- Individuals have a mix of different sized LDL particles. LDL size patterns and the coronary risk associated with them are influenced by genetic factors. However, that risk can be modified by treatment. The LDL particle size test classifies people as predominantly small LDL (Pattern as versus predominantly large LDL (Pattern A). Pattern B dramatically increases risk and is found in an estimated 40 to 50 percent of heart disease patients. Individuals with Pattern B can reduce their risks significantly by reducing their dietary intake of fat. Conversely, healthy Pattern A individuals experience little benefit or even adverse effects from low fat diets.

Goes to show, you have to find out your genetics. It also blows the cholesterol hypothesis....
I'd consider statins if lifestyle/diet is not showing results, certainly not as a first line approach because of downsides even when not experienced as acute physical symptoms.

My GP recently added an additional test (to Berkeley heart) —Boston Heart Diagnostics, Framingham, MA for my testing.
Inflammation tests LpPLA2 activity (with diet I’m now “green” Optimal)... let’s see what the ablation does to the next test
Boston Heart HDL Map test:
A-1 (41.7- borderline) last test I was 31.8 “Red” Increased Risk... better (optimal is >45
A-2 (61- borderline) last test 53.8 “red” ..better, optimal is >65
A-3 (19.1 @green optimal) optimal is <20, better...last test I was even better @17.3
A-4 (10.9 @green optimal..last test was better 8.4
PreB-1 (@green optimal. Optimal is <20...last test was better 6.9
I took a month off of statins and scores adjusted downhill. Flecainide was causing my liver enzymes to rise so I was told to hold Crestor.

This lab also tested for “Boston Heart Fatty Acid Balance test
Saturated Fatty Acid Index (green but better green in 1-19

Trans Fatty Acid Index- I’m borderline but better than in 1-19
Trans FA Index description- higher levels of plasma trans fatty acids are associated with an increase risk of CVD. Consider restricting dietary intake of fried foods, foods containing partially hydrogenated fats, shortening, or stick margarine, and replacing with plant based oils.

Unsaturated/saturated Ratio
Omega 3 fatty acids Index (green)
EPA (green)
DHA (green)
ALA- alpha linolenic acid (went from borderline in 1-19 to red) I went off statins for a month
Monounsaturated Fatty Acid Index (green)
Omega 6 fatty acid Index (borderline)
Linoleic Acid (LA) great green improvement even off statins
Arachidonic Acid (AA) green from borderline in 1-19 without statins
Omega-3/omega-6 ratio. Red increased risk, better off statins-diet related

Report has two pages of suggestions of diet, exercise, Niacin, control BP and lower weight,

I like this test. Challenges me to step up.

Also in additional to Boston Heart and Berkeley, check out Cleveland Heart Lab testing. They have a comprehensive Cardio IQ testing.

My GP also tests at True Health ( Frisco, TX)
Lipoproteins and additional Lipids
Myeloperoxidase inflammation
Free Fatty Acid insulin Resistance
BMI

Check out these labs if you can find a doctor for integrative medicine who believes in it. Zero of my cardiologists care for a copy of these tests.
My GP has his own pharmacy and because I was off statins but now back on, I’m was on a new supplement he labeled Reversol-
Chromium (as polynicotinate) 200mg
Guggul extract 2.5% 300mg
Sytrinol 300 mg
Guar gun 225 mg
Artichoke 5% 150 mg

I am stopping it until I’m done with multaq but I still take fish oil he sells (phar quality with tested no mercury)

Interesting tests, Susan! I don't understand a lot of it (A 1 etc)
With all of these tests, have they done your genetics and recommended a phenotype/genotype specific strategy? Presumably all these tests included heavy metal load status and sensitivities (not quite allergies) to food/smells etc?

Good question Joe. I’ll ask him. No he has not done any of the above. I started out with mostly red (high risk) and borderline test results and now have improved to mostly green. I speculate his supplements he made, and exercise and weight loss. I lost 67 pounds since 2004. I’m only 5’ tall. I think diet, exercise and his supplements helped my predisposed genes. Twice a year I take these tests. If my scores gets worst he either advises me to his dietitian in his office or adds a few of his in house pharmacy supplements.

Regarding genetic testing, both my parents, brother had high cholesterol as well. My scores decreased in those tests when I didn’t exercise. There was a point recently that due to my Afib/tachycardia, which was falsely identified as v-tac, I lowered my interest of exercise. In fact my cardiologist told me to hold off. Without exercise my scores went downhill. To argue that statins didn’t help totally, one month since my 1-19 and 6-19 testing, I took a month off of statins because my liver enzymes were high. Certain tests improves without statins. I think honestly I ate better, lost 20 pounds and exercised to compensate knowing I wasn’t on statins.

Thank you Joe. You raised a good point. He didn’t follow up with your suggested testing. Next time I’ll ask.

Great effort Susan, loosing 67 pounds! Seems like your medical practitioner is a very good one.
Would be interesting to hear his opinion about fasting, nicotinamide riboside, NMN and resveratrol.