Monosodium Glutamate and Tachycardia

I have been doing well heart-wise since my ablation 4 1/2 months ago. Wore a monitor for two weeks and everything looked great. But this morning I was startled to see my heart rate had gone up to around 160. When I finally got my watch to do an ECG, it said no sign of afib, just high heart rate. I drank a lot of low sodium V8 and took a diltiazem, which I hadn't had since before the ablation. Heart rate has since leveled off to around 120.
I hadn't had anything out of the ordinary last night, not even any Halloween candy or alcohol! But I had eaten some crackers which I later realized had MSG in them. I read that MSG can cause increased heart rate and irregular heart beat. Wondering if anyone has had a similar reaction to food containing MSG?
Thanks, Linda

MSG is generously incorporated in a wide range of processed food. It has a bad reputation for lots of reasons, but before telling it disturbs your HR, it's wise putting aside most coincidences.
I bet GeorgeN can tell you about a good way to know.

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LLA
Wondering if anyone has had a similar reaction to food containing MSG?

Years ago, there was a woman here from the UK, Fran Ross. She'd had afib for 20 years. Getting MSG and things like it out of her life was a big part of her remission plan.

Go to our Conference Room Proceedings to Session 61 (a pdf). You can read Fran's story (starts on p4 of the PDF) and also search the PDF for MSG.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2022 07:52AM by GeorgeN.

For me alcohol has been my no 1 Trigger since 2006 even after 2012 & 2021 ablations. An easy no 2 is MSG. I avoid it , i always check canned or frozen foods or anything flavored. Again it can be individual but something i really avoid

MSG is one of my 3 triggers. In 2004 I did a stupid experiment in which I ate something that contained msg and waited until the Afib appeared. I did this test 9 times to rule out any doubt. 9/9 I had Afib immediately.

Not that it's especially relevant for this forum, but those with Celiac are also urged to avoid MSG (hydrolyzed plant protein is what it is called often in labels). Even so, I listened to a documentary a couple of years back on CBC radio where the history of MSG was explained and where the claims of it affecting so many people adversely were belied. It's actually a 'natural' product developed by a Japanese researcher who apparently raved about his mum's cooking, When she revealed her secret, he went to work isolating MSG and brought it to market. I dunno, millions around the globe love and use it liberally, while many say they can't tolerate it. Chac-un son gout.

I was at one time convinced that MSG was a trigger for me, so I did what I always do with suspected triggers: I tested it. I went to the store and bought a container of "Accent," which is a brand name for pure MSG. I dissolved a tablespoon of the stuff in water and drank it, and... nothing happened. So the next day I repeated the test with two heaping tablespoons. Again, nothing. Both tests were far more MSG than you would get in any meal.

So I went out and had some Chinese for lunch and scratched MSG off my suspected triggers list.

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Carey
I was at one time convinced that MSG was a trigger for me, so I did what I always do with suspected triggers: I tested it. I went to the store and bought a container of "Accent," which is a brand name for pure MSG. I dissolved a tablespoon of the stuff in water and drank it, and... nothing happened. So the next day I repeated the test with two heaping tablespoons. Again, nothing. Both tests were far more MSG than you would get in any meal.

So I went out and had some Chinese for lunch and scratched MSG off my suspected triggers list.

Actually put a big smile on my face reading this. You are fearless. Kudos.

Thank you everyone for your responses, they were very helpful. If my heart rate goes back to normal (it’s still in the 120’s at rest), I’d be tempted to try the Chinese food test!
The heart rate isn’t really uncomfortable, but it’s making me very anxious about what’s causing it.
Thanks, Linda

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susan.d
Actually put a big smile on my face reading this. You are fearless. Kudos.

Well, thanks, but I'm not actually fearless. I was pretty sure it would put me into afib, but that was happening more than once per week anyway, so what did it matter?

What I didn't want to do was eliminate something I enjoyed from my life based on nothing more than coincidence, and I see people do that all the time. They say, "I had chocolate last night and then I went into afib, so I'm never touching chocolate again." You can substitute anything you want for chocolate -- caffeine, alcohol, exercise, whatever.

I hate it when I see people do that, but people gravitate to coincidences and latch onto them. People forget that before every single afib episode they've ever had, they were doing something. Are you going to eliminate everything your were doing before an afib episode? If so, you'll eventually eliminate everything in your life that you enjoy. So don't quit anything based on a single coincidence. If you think X is a trigger, prove it. Try it at least 2-3 times and see if it holds up.

Meanwhile, there's evidence that caffeine is actually beneficial to afibbers.

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Carey
Try it at least 2-3 times and see if it holds up.

As I've posted before, when I was unknowingly consuming a lot of calcium (at least for my body), during 2012-2013 many things that weren't prior triggers became triggers. One of those was the immediate aftermath of orgasm. You can bet I tried it many times to see if held up! Actually, I learned I would initially get a bunch of PAC's. If I felt those coming on, if I got up and did activity, I could ward off the episode. Even so much as going from prone to vertical. Thankfully I had an understanding partner. Also thankful that I figured out the calcium connection as when I lowered calcium intake, orgasm ceased to be a trigger. There were other triggers during that time that were not before or after. Ice cold drinks, being prone on my left side and so on.

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Carey
I was at one time convinced that MSG was a trigger for me, so I did what I always do with suspected triggers: I tested it. I went to the store and bought a container of "Accent," which is a brand name for pure MSG. I dissolved a tablespoon of the stuff in water and drank it, and... nothing happened. So the next day I repeated the test with two heaping tablespoons. Again, nothing. Both tests were far more MSG than you would get in any meal.

So I went out and had some Chinese for lunch and scratched MSG off my suspected triggers list.

Oops ! This is what I was thinking about in my early answer, but my memory was wrong. I thought GeorgeN made such a test... Thanks for bringing back that to my memory.

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Carey


What I didn't want to do was eliminate something I enjoyed from my life based on nothing more than coincidence, and I see people do that all the time. They say, "I had chocolate last night and then I went into afib, so I'm never touching chocolate again." You can substitute anything you want for chocolate -- caffeine, alcohol, exercise, whatever.

I hate it when I see people do that, but people gravitate to coincidences and latch onto them. People forget that before every single afib episode they've ever had, they were doing something. Are you going to eliminate everything your were doing before an afib episode? If so, you'll eventually eliminate everything in your life that you enjoy. So don't quit anything based on a single coincidence. If you think X is a trigger, prove it. Try it at least 2-3 times and see if it holds up.

Meanwhile, there's evidence that caffeine is actually beneficial to afibbers.

Great post ! Thanks !

George - Thanks for the reminder about that CR link ...

Also, the book by Russell L. Blaylock MD Excitotoxins - The Taste that Kills offers explanations on how the MSG affects cells. (and relates to provoking AF)

Short, relevant clip in the chapter "Exciting Cells to Death" .... "It appears that several of the excitotoxins including glutamate and aspartate, work by opening calcium channels, at least on certain subtypes of receptors. When these neurotransmitters are allowed to come into contact with the receptors in too high a concentration or for too long a period of time, the calcium channel gets stuck in the open position, allowing calcium to pour into the cell in large amounts." p 42.

Jackie

All I know is some foods affect me. I go to a class every Tuesday from 4-6 and we have potluck after. Who doesn't like a good potluck?!?!? I spend so much time cooking that it is nice for a break. But each Wednesday my heart does flipply flops or worse. At home I might make tacos but I will do a salad and low carb shells and I don't use the packets.. I make my own seasoning. Well I don't know what they used for the tacos Tuesday but I called my cardiologist yesterday because I had trouble making it around the block. Yet today I had one of the best days I have had since my ablation in June... until after dinner. I had a Zoom from 6-8 and I had made one of those TikTok feta bakes beforehand and kept it in the oven with the oven off. So it would be ready when I was done- I was starving. Made some GF noodles .. and my heart... flipping.. flopping.. ug! I do know for me that lower in carb is better. Vegan for a year lowered my cholesterol but then that is when my afib took off. I am NOT saying this is the case for everyone. JUST me personally. To Carey's point... it is a bummer to give up stuff you might not have to give up. (I know wine did a number on me though.). I think we can get a feel for sensitivities and what affects one person may not affect another. I have done elimination diets for other reasons before and I may do that again. Last week after class there were tons of amazing desserts. I had some and I never hardly ever eat cakes and cookies... oh boy. But I paid for it. Ideally the goal is to be fixed enough to not have the triggers... I get that. But until then....



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2022 10:05PM by bettylou4488.

Betty-
It takes discipline not to eat food others made, like your potluck. I am anally disciplined and am gluten free and dairy free because of my GI (biopsies found it), msg and added sodium —which severely limits my eating out or eating anything made by family or friends and I’m allergic to 152 foods. I don’t think a mouthful of something delicious is worth being admitted to the hospital. When I eat out and there is zero on the menu, I just drink water and enjoy the company and eat beforehand.

I’m sure you can find restaurants where you can micromanage the kitchen. I have gone as far as asked permission to enter their kitchens at restaurants and check every label. Once in Manhattan I was in line at a busy takeout market during lunch hour with a huge impatient crowd. I asked the guy behind the counter what was added to the bland looking chicken cutlets. He said nothing but lemon and oil. I asked him to bring over a witness who watched him cook it. That guy said differently-soaked the chicken in salad dressing which I then asked to read the label. MSG was in the ingredients. I’m shameless by always asking but I am my best advocate. However many times my inquiries make others at the table embarrassed as heck. Once someone was holding his head while banging his head on the table. He got over it with time.

Currently I have three restaurants I can eat at. One is dairy free and they custom tailored my entree to make it as bland and tasteless as possible by just steaming veggies in water and grilling (they wipe the grill for me) plain unadulterated pure chicken or fish. When I was abroad for three months I have my two favorite restaurants where they bent over backwards to make sure I was able to eat edible food. A big tip helps.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2022 01:19AM by susan.d.

Diet deviation does not impact my afib, but does impact other issues. I prepare all my own food from scratch, even while traveling (always get a place with a kitchen). No processed food, if others want to go to a restaurant, I will fast. If friends invite us over, i bring our own food, or fast.

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GeorgeN
Diet deviation does not impact my afib, but does impact other issues. I prepare all my own food from scratch, even while traveling (always get a place with a kitchen). No processed food, if others want to go to a restaurant, I will fast. If friends invite us over, i bring our own food, or fast.

I used to do that back in the day and gravitating back to that. I enjoy cooking from scratch so that is good

Had 2 ablations 2013 and 2015 with Dr.N. , all good except for tachicardia up to 130 or more, my triggers: MSG, Gluten. Soy, Alcohol. Taking Nebivolol 5 mg twice a day it helps to "low quantity" of triggers....