Massage inducing atrial fibrillation?!

I found a wonderful massage therapist who is quite good BUT I noticed some palpitations after one session and two weeks later I had a weird heart rhythm (meaning, not quite afib--maybe lots of PACs) at 2:00 a.m. that my liquid magnesium disposed of fairly quickly. I mentioned my curiosity to Kyra about whether she might have impacted the vagal nerve, as I know that I some of my infrequent lone afib incidents after vagal nerve stimulation. She was quite open to researching this possibility. I went home afterwards and within 30 minutes was in afib for 3 hours. For context, I have had paroximal afib for maybe 10 plus years but gratefully, only 3 +/- times a year, and never for more than a few hours to maximum of 9. I have reduced my afib burden this year by taking extra potassium before I play hard tennis, particularly in the heat. (I am almost 70 but can beat 40+ year olds in singles which is no doubt coming to an end soon!). Liquid magnesium from Cardiovascular Research in OJ has blessedly converted me each time (plus chips of cardizem to lower my heart rate).

Has anyone else experienced this? There is some sort of connection but not sure what to avoid, as Kyra has helped the rest of my body so much! I have not had this reaction in prior myofascial massage but this is far more precise, dynamic, and more pressure.

Karin

I do "Rolfing" massage therapy and have wondered same... I am currently in afib (ablation upcoming) and during this time I went to her to see if I could get OUT of it. didn't work. But I do think there is something to it. I am going to try some of those supplements above (I already take Mg but thinking of switching it up.)

Had a lengthy massage when i was in permanent AF 110 to 130 or so HR. My HR was reduced by about 20ppm after the massage.

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karin
There is some sort of connection but not sure what to avoid, as Kyra has helped the rest of my body so much! I have not had this reaction in prior myofascial massage but this is far more precise, dynamic, and more pressure.

Just a guess, perhaps you might try having her avoid the front of the torso for the time being and see if that helps.

Another thought would be to "preload" with your magnesium prior to a massage - perhaps trying this before my thought above.

Before he passed, I corresponded with David Simons MD about this reference:

"They also saw evidence that the spray could suppress cardiac arrhythmias. On several later occasions, I saw the conversion of atrial fibrillation to normal rhythm when vapocoolant spray was applied over the arrhythmia MTrP on the lower-right anterior chest wall; the same effect could be achieved by trigger point pressure release applied to that MTrP, as described in The Trigger Point Manual. For several reasons, it appears likely that many such unexpected influences, to and from MTrPs, depend on modulation of the autonomic nervous system, in addition to modulation of the sensory nervous system (referred pain)." Source

Simons was co author with Janet Travell of The Trigger Point Manual. I have the 2nd edition of Volume 1 and 1st of Vol 2 (they never updated V2) of this text. Through a PM, I could provide PDF's of these Volumes. The 3rd edition (which I don't have) has been consolidated into one volume and was updated by others as both Travell and Simons have passed.

At one point, I experimented with terminating an episode by releasing an MTrP located as described, but was not successful. The TrP was really between my lower couple of ribs on my right side. It also used to have soreness typical of MTrPs that persisted for years, but I just checked and that soreness has gone, even though I haven't addressed it specifically.

George,

A great (but should have been obvious to me!) suggestion to pre-load my liquid magnesium, which I also do before hard exercise in heat! Thank you!

I did read on line about massage techniques to get OUT of afib which may have included your reference. Your knowledge base is far deeper than mine! I will write you about the PDF. Thanks for offering.

Kyra did a lot of neck work where the vagus nerve is located but as I hold a LOT of tension up there, I hope she will have a work around!

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karin
Kyra did a lot of neck work where the vagus nerve is located but as I hold a LOT of tension up there, I hope she will have a work around!

Karin,

I've learned a number of MTrP release techniques. Many massage people I've met (I'm a self-taught layperson) commonly use pressure to release them. Several other release techniques I use:

1. Put an ice pack (like a blue ice pack from the pharmacy) on the MTrP for about 10-15 seconds, then stretch the muscle & see if it releases.
2. Contract the muscle with the MTrP against resistance at about 30% max force for 10 or so seconds, then do the same for the antagonist muscle, then stretch as in 1.
3. This is easier done by somebody else to you. Find the MTrP with its normal pain with pressure on it. Put the muscle into a position where the MTrP pain is at least 2/3's better. This is typically a position of slack. Hold this position (can release the pressure) for 90 seconds. Then reapply pressure & see if the pain is gone or nearly gone (this is an osteopathic technique from Counterstrain taught to me by DO friend). This is the most gentle technique I use and it has a very high percentage of being effective at releasing MTrPs.

These techniques may not elicit the same vagal response as the pressure technique.

George



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2021 11:10AM by GeorgeN.

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Joe
Had a lengthy massage when i was in permanent AF 110 to 130 or so HR. My HR was reduced by about 20ppm after the massage.

so did you get out of permanent AF? I love to hear stories like that. I am in I guess.. persistent.. in afib since July 7. (Ablation scheduled.. canceled due to phantom blood clot. rescheduling)

No I did not get out of permanent AF after massages. My second cardioversion (about 4 weeks apart) got me out of permanent AF for about two years. Then i had AF for about 2/3 weeks, saw an EP and asked him for Flec - that worked after a few days. Took it for about a year reducing the dose (from 50 mg/day 2x/day to 1x) towards the end. Since then i use flec as PIP for the last 3 or so years. Only had occasional AF during this time lasting from a few hours to less than a day, keeping fingers crossed

I haven been to a massage therapist since a little after covid began. My therapist hung it up due to personal health issues and didn't want to take the risk.

Anyway, for years I had deep tissue massages 2-3 times a month. Never had any issues from it.

Yes. Massaging the neck area around the carotids can precipitate arrhythmia. I’ve experienced it. It’s real. In my case, it’s PACs and I inhale deeply to stop it. Individual results may vary. It does not happen very often.

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wolfpack
Yes. Massaging the neck area around the carotids can precipitate arrhythmia.

Yeah, but that's a totally different thing, and actually downright dangerous. I can't imagine a licensed massage therapist getting anywhere near the carotids. You have pressure receptors in your carotids and massaging them or even just applying pressure is a well known way to cause instant unconsciousness. And if the person has carotid plaque, massaging them is definitely a bad idea. So I think we're into apples and oranges here.