Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D March 25, 2019 10:26AM |
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Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D March 25, 2019 05:35PM |
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Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D March 25, 2019 06:45PM |
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Jackie
Kate - Your vitamin D level of 11 is alarmingly low. Are you symptomatic?
When I had mine tested many years ago, it was 18 and I was having a lot of problems with fatigue and muscle pain and weakness. My primary care MD sent me to a Rheumatologist who pronounced I had "fibromyalgia" the catch-all diagnosis term for 'we don't know what causes your symptoms', but - "here take this Rx and cross your fingers you get relief."
After a considerable amount of time with continuing misery, I had the good fortune to become a patient of a new family practice MD who had just relocated to our area...and she practiced Functional Medicine. Thus, the 20 OH D test with the extremely low levels. After ramping up dosing and testing periodically, I had reached 5,000 daily but wasn't completely free of the muscle fatigue and pain symptoms, so we increased to 10,000 IU daily... until I reached 70 nmol/l To maintain that, I take 10,000 October to April and then drop to 5,000 when we have warm weather and sunshine. (I live in NE Ohio)... so your location may alter your dosing once you become optimized.
Additionally, and this is extremely important....you also need to supplement with Vitamin K2 MK7... that's the form that directs circulating calcium into bones rather than depositing in arteries or making bone spur and it needs to be an amount high enough that will perform that function.
I take (2) Jarrow Formulas, MK-7, Vitamin K2 as MK-7 - 90 mcg/gel cap... when I use the higher 10K dose and then cut back to 1 gel cap with the lower dose of Vitamin D3.
My bone density scans are so good that I can space them out considerably and after the last, I just chose not to continue.
m
In the Dean article you quoted... just ignore the recommendation to take the ReCalcia as supplemental calcium for afibbers is not recommended.
I wish you well with the challenge of increasing your D levels and also hope, if you are symptomatic, you begin to have relief.
Best to you,
Jackie
Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D March 25, 2019 10:52PM |
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katesshadow
Edited to add: I have sat outside for the last couple of days (wasn't sunny enough today). It's finally Spring here (Atlanta area) and I should be able to be out most days. Am I right in thinking the sun exposure will do more to raise my levels? (I still plan on supplementing).
Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D March 26, 2019 06:44AM |
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Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D March 26, 2019 08:18AM |
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GeorgeN
Edited to add: I have sat outside for the last couple of days (wasn't sunny enough today). It's finally Spring here (Atlanta area) and I should be able to be out most days. Am I right in thinking the sun exposure will do more to raise my levels? (I still plan on supplementing).
Kate, our doc, Steven Gundry wants our 25OHD level around 100 ng/mL or better (he runs his around 120 ng/mL. I live in the Denver area and supplement with 10,000 IU's D3 winter and summer. When my levels got up around 80, I no longer burned in the sun. I've skied at 12,000' in March with only shorts on, all day without burning. I've been at the beach in San Diego in August, again all day without burning only wearing a swimsuit. I routinely rock climb at 7,000' wearing only shorts, winter or summer. When I went for my annual skin check with my dermatologist (I'm 63 and both parents had basal cell carcinoma), he told me my skin looks fantastic. I told him I do everything his profession says not to do. I spend as much time in the sun as possible with few clothes and no sunscreen. He told me to keep it up. I also think there may be a dietary component.
I will say my 25OHD level does not increase in the summer despite increased UV levels this time of year. I know Dr. Joe Mercola. He takes no supplemental D, but lives near the beach in central FL. He takes hour long mid-day walks on the beach wearing only shorts daily. His 25OHD levels are around 70 mg/dL.
I think Jackie's "70 nmol/l" is probably a typo that should read 70 mg/dL as we normally use these units in the US (70 nmol/L = 28 ng/mL, still way too low).
I'm not saying anybody should do what I do, as it defies convention. I'm just sharing my experience.
Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D March 26, 2019 10:21AM |
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Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D March 26, 2019 10:51AM |
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Shannon
Katesshadow,
FYI, in my experience I’ve taken10K IUs of Vitamin D3 a day since 2003 and run around 75ng/ml of 25/OH/D3 very consistently. Quite a few people need at least 10K IU a day to reach ~70ng/ml of blood 25/OH/D3. That’s why regular testing in the early few years, especially, is important. If your levels are very stable for several
years at twice a year testing on whatever dose helps reach these better levels then regular testing at end of summer and end of winter then it usually isn’t needed to continue with twice a year testing, if your levels tend to be stable for those repeated time frames of late summer and later winter testing. Ideally, it’s good to do once a year even with a good quality home self test kit where you do a finger prick blood test and with no need to go to a doc appointment. Or just have the once a year test done with an annual physical with your GP. I do advise making sure your primary physician knows your 25:OH/D3 levels. And this at home finger prick test kits have largely been found to give similar results to a venous blood draw done on the same day.
Shannon
Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D March 26, 2019 11:33AM |
Admin Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 2,779 |
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katesshadow
Katesshadow,
FYI, in my experience I’ve taken10K IUs of Vitamin D3 a day since 2003 and run around 75ng/ml of 25/OH/D3 very consistently. Quite a few people need at least 10K IU a day to reach ~70ng/ml of blood 25/OH/D3. That’s why regular testing in the early few years, especially, is important. If your levels are very stable for several
years at twice a year testing on whatever dose helps reach these better levels then regular testing at end of summer and end of winter then it usually isn’t needed to continue with twice a year testing, if your levels tend to be stable for those repeated time frames of late summer and later winter testing. Ideally, it’s good to do once a year even with a good quality home self test kit where you do a finger prick blood test and with no need to go to a doc appointment. Or just have the once a year test done with an annual physical with your GP. I do advise making sure your primary physician knows your 25:OH/D3 levels. And this at home finger prick test kits have largely been found to give similar results to a venous blood draw done on the same day.
Shannon
Shannon, I think you recommended the 10,000 to me before? I just don't want to overload, but you don't seem to think that's an issue. Do I increase the MK7 also (currently taking one daily 90mcg.
Have you heard of/tried Wellnicity? I bought their kit through Amazon. Their test revealed the 11 (25-OH Vitamin D, Total (ng/mL) I'm sure they have standards they have to follow, I was just a little leary because they also sell vitamins which I did not know when I purchased the kit.
Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D March 26, 2019 01:21PM |
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Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D March 26, 2019 03:07PM |
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Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D March 26, 2019 09:44PM |
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mwcf
I'd like to supplement with D3 but am concerned given my genetic tendency towards I high IC Calcium and low IC Mg levels. I also find Mg supplementation difficult as bowel intolerance arrives very quickly and persistently. I also tend towards high ferritin (200-400 historically). A tricky one!
Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D March 27, 2019 05:15AM |
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Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D March 28, 2019 04:16PM |
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Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D March 29, 2019 02:21PM |
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safib
Recent analysis of RCT trials showed no significant relationship between D levels and afib onset sciencedirect.com
Moreover, the only analysis of excessive D (more than 100 ng/ml) in the literature that I can find showed that it increases risk of afib by factor of 2.5 ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
I would be curious what source Gundry is employing to recommend 100 ng/ml and his own 120 ng/ml levels
Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D March 30, 2019 03:01AM |
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Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D March 30, 2019 04:26AM |
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Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D March 30, 2019 09:36AM |
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safib
Recent analysis of RCT trials showed no significant relationship between D levels and afib onset sciencedirect.com
Moreover, the only analysis of excessive D (more than 100 ng/ml) in the literature that I can find showed that it increases risk of afib by factor of 2.5 ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
I would be curious what source Gundry is employing to recommend 100 ng/ml and his own 120 ng/ml levels
Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D March 30, 2019 09:43AM |
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SteveCarr
Plus, THE KEY is that the "high" Vit D levels MUST be combined with a so-called "LOW" Ca intake for successful elimination of ectopics and afib like GeorgeN and myself.
VitD increases Ca absorption from the gut and decreases Ca excretion (along with other effects on Ca homeostasis -- see below). So high VitD with high Ca intake (or for Westerners that means everyone with so-called normal Ca intake) will worsen afib. Hence the increase in afib cited by safib in his reference above -- it is absolutely certain that the subjects in the study made no special effort to reduce their Ca intake, and without looking I don't doubt they were on standard Western diets.
VitD also acts in the very complex Ca homeostasis mechanisms to reduce parathyroid hormone (PTH) secretion, another hormone which increases Ca absorption and decreases Ca excretion. Both VitD and PTH also have several other effects, so the whole mechanism is extremely labyrinthine. However, the science of the following is well known and I have personally observed that high serum VitD consequently results in PTH within the normal range even at very low Ca intake (without high VitD the PTH will become elevated as the body strives to absorb maximum Ca from the reduced supply). The maintenance of PTH within the normal range even at "low" Ca intake is also strong indication that one is obtaining sufficient Ca even at supposedly very low intakes like 300mg/day as long as one has so-called high levels of serum VitD.
Again, in reality, so-called "high" levels of serum VitD -- like about 70 ng/ml or 165 nmol/L -- turn out to be just the perfectly normal serum levels for anyone heavily sun-exposed (like ALL our ancestors for millions of years) and for all closely related species. There is a massive amount of easy to find scientific literature on this subject.
So, in a nutshell, extremely beneficial effects on afib and ectopics can be obtained by PLAF sufferers by simply adhering to the same Ca intakes and serum VitD levels that our ancestors had for millions of years. But that means that a so-called "low" Ca intake MUST be employed with the "high" VitD levels, otherwise the result is counterproductive!
Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D March 30, 2019 04:02PM |
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Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D March 30, 2019 05:54PM |
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Elizabeth
my Cal. has always run about the same 9.5 with lab values being 8.6 to 10.4
Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D March 30, 2019 08:20PM |
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Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D March 31, 2019 05:02PM |
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Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D April 01, 2019 06:06AM |
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Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D April 01, 2019 08:43AM |
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Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D April 01, 2019 02:36PM |
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Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D April 01, 2019 02:48PM |
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Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D April 01, 2019 02:56PM |
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katesshadow
Thanks for the response SteveCarr.
Question for you and George - do y'all take AC's or daily aspirin?
Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D April 01, 2019 07:15PM |
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Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D April 03, 2019 12:18PM |
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Re: Carolyn Dean, Magnesium and Vitamin D April 04, 2019 02:56PM |
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