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PACs
Posted by RonM
Hello everyone,
It has been close to a year an a half since by ablation on 6/29/15 with Dr. Natale . I was just telling my wife that I finally feel 100% and have not had any Afib since. I am back to intense training of Insanity/P90x sometime twice per day. The last couple of evenings prior to bed I have had quite a bit of PACs. I even sent in one of my Alivecor strips to the Alivecor Cardiologist who read as Afib. I don't know if I agree with this as it really looks like PACS. It looks like normal beats with an early beat followed by a R-R interval delay back to normal.......repeating. Is it normal to have PACs increase this far out? I currently take the typical electrolyte cocktail recommended on this site too. Should I get ready for a touch up?
Ron
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2016 08:58AM by RonM.
It has been close to a year an a half since by ablation on 6/29/15 with Dr. Natale . I was just telling my wife that I finally feel 100% and have not had any Afib since. I am back to intense training of Insanity/P90x sometime twice per day. The last couple of evenings prior to bed I have had quite a bit of PACs. I even sent in one of my Alivecor strips to the Alivecor Cardiologist who read as Afib. I don't know if I agree with this as it really looks like PACS. It looks like normal beats with an early beat followed by a R-R interval delay back to normal.......repeating. Is it normal to have PACs increase this far out? I currently take the typical electrolyte cocktail recommended on this site too. Should I get ready for a touch up?
Ron
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2016 08:58AM by RonM.
Ron - My deepest heartfelt condolences on your tragic loss. I can't begin to imagine.
Special thoughts and blessings,
Jackie
On the recent PACs, keep in mind that high intensity exercise produces an abundance of free radicals and oxidative stress that causes inflammation in heart cells. You can try adding antioxidants to your supplement regimen, but it's better to address the core cause in the first place to avoid adding cardiac fibrosis.
There are many techniques to help achieve peace of mind such as meditation, guided imagery or EFT – emotional freedom technique aka Tapping, meditative yoga.. and my favorite, Guided Imagery MeditationTechnique. [www.the-guided-meditation-site.com] Tapping is great because you can do it quickly and easily and get virtually instant relief that lasts. But I also love guided imagery meditation along with meditative yoga.
Consider trying some of these as you taper down on your high intensity program so you protect your heart but gain insight into techniques that help ease your pain.
(Check out Nick Ortner, Tapping expert, at this search list:
[search.yahoo.com]
Special thoughts and blessings,
Jackie
On the recent PACs, keep in mind that high intensity exercise produces an abundance of free radicals and oxidative stress that causes inflammation in heart cells. You can try adding antioxidants to your supplement regimen, but it's better to address the core cause in the first place to avoid adding cardiac fibrosis.
There are many techniques to help achieve peace of mind such as meditation, guided imagery or EFT – emotional freedom technique aka Tapping, meditative yoga.. and my favorite, Guided Imagery MeditationTechnique. [www.the-guided-meditation-site.com] Tapping is great because you can do it quickly and easily and get virtually instant relief that lasts. But I also love guided imagery meditation along with meditative yoga.
Consider trying some of these as you taper down on your high intensity program so you protect your heart but gain insight into techniques that help ease your pain.
(Check out Nick Ortner, Tapping expert, at this search list:
[search.yahoo.com]
Ron,
I have the same issues with outdoor running, especially in the hot, humid summer months. You are 1.5 years out from an ablation, as am I, so I wouldn't worry about the training regimen. Do it if it's what makes you feel good. My guess is you're going to need a more aggressive supplementation regimen to keep up with the electrolyte losses. I'm doing well on Potassium, Magnesium Glycinate and Taurine.
There isn't a thing in the Universe that can replace a child. My heartfelt condolences. You can replace electrolytes, though. Best of luck!
I have the same issues with outdoor running, especially in the hot, humid summer months. You are 1.5 years out from an ablation, as am I, so I wouldn't worry about the training regimen. Do it if it's what makes you feel good. My guess is you're going to need a more aggressive supplementation regimen to keep up with the electrolyte losses. I'm doing well on Potassium, Magnesium Glycinate and Taurine.
There isn't a thing in the Universe that can replace a child. My heartfelt condolences. You can replace electrolytes, though. Best of luck!
Ron,
As a non-ablatee who came to afib via chronic fitness. My rules for myself are "it is OK if I don't see significant arrhythmia." I know that high volume, long duration endurance exercise is a trigger. Hence I try to not exceed a subjective exercise volume and am pretty successful in doing so. I do HIIT (20:10 Tabatas) fairly regularly. I wear a beat to beat recording heart rate monitor during them. When I first started them, I noticed PAC runs, especially during the rest phase and the cool down. I backed off my intensity just a little bit and everything settled down. Most observers would still think what I do it pretty intense, but I can tell the difference. Sticking to my rules (which would likely be different for others) works pretty well for me.
Some left field ideas on emotions.
Hypothermic conditioning (like a cold bath) can change neurotransmitters. I routinely take 20 minute baths at 57deg F water (my tap temperature). Wim Hof (The Iceman) of the Netherlands is known for his ability to tolerate cold. However he said he got into this because his wife (and mother of their 4 children) committed suicide. He found he could find peace with the cold (and says anybody can be taught to do this). If you are interested, I can provide more resources.
Ketogenic diets - providing the brain with ketones for fuel - can also be positive in this regard. Again, I can provide more info if interested.
George
As a non-ablatee who came to afib via chronic fitness. My rules for myself are "it is OK if I don't see significant arrhythmia." I know that high volume, long duration endurance exercise is a trigger. Hence I try to not exceed a subjective exercise volume and am pretty successful in doing so. I do HIIT (20:10 Tabatas) fairly regularly. I wear a beat to beat recording heart rate monitor during them. When I first started them, I noticed PAC runs, especially during the rest phase and the cool down. I backed off my intensity just a little bit and everything settled down. Most observers would still think what I do it pretty intense, but I can tell the difference. Sticking to my rules (which would likely be different for others) works pretty well for me.
Some left field ideas on emotions.
Hypothermic conditioning (like a cold bath) can change neurotransmitters. I routinely take 20 minute baths at 57deg F water (my tap temperature). Wim Hof (The Iceman) of the Netherlands is known for his ability to tolerate cold. However he said he got into this because his wife (and mother of their 4 children) committed suicide. He found he could find peace with the cold (and says anybody can be taught to do this). If you are interested, I can provide more resources.
Ketogenic diets - providing the brain with ketones for fuel - can also be positive in this regard. Again, I can provide more info if interested.
George
Ron,
Another thought. Exercise will increase BDNF (Brain-derived neurotrophic factor), which may be why it makes you feel good. Though it is very effective, you may wish to explore other ways to increase it. Here is one article listing a few ways. <[drjohnday.com] Cold and ketones in my post above both will increase BDNF.
George
Another thought. Exercise will increase BDNF (Brain-derived neurotrophic factor), which may be why it makes you feel good. Though it is very effective, you may wish to explore other ways to increase it. Here is one article listing a few ways. <[drjohnday.com] Cold and ketones in my post above both will increase BDNF.
George
Ron,
I am a long time runner (no marathons) that was ablated by Dr Natale 2.5 years ago. No afib since the ablation. I did not run for 3 months after my ablation and then started to increase my running to pre ablation levels. I had a recent consult with Dr Natale and he said there were no limitations on my exercising.
Your loss of a son is heartbreaking. My condolences and sympathy to you and your family. Although I have not experienced such a loss I can relate to your statement about only feeling at peace when exercising. Unfortunately I found that one cannot exercise all the time so I studied meditation and it was able to reduce my stress, live in the present moment most of the time, and achieve a greater inner peace.
I have tried many different forms of meditation including guided meditation and found all of them effective. My personal preference, at the current time, is transcendental meditation on a daily basis and guided imagery for specific health issues that arise. I have also used EFT (tapping) on myself and others and it has many benefits and is very easy to learn. The EFT website I prefer is EFT
I am a long time runner (no marathons) that was ablated by Dr Natale 2.5 years ago. No afib since the ablation. I did not run for 3 months after my ablation and then started to increase my running to pre ablation levels. I had a recent consult with Dr Natale and he said there were no limitations on my exercising.
Your loss of a son is heartbreaking. My condolences and sympathy to you and your family. Although I have not experienced such a loss I can relate to your statement about only feeling at peace when exercising. Unfortunately I found that one cannot exercise all the time so I studied meditation and it was able to reduce my stress, live in the present moment most of the time, and achieve a greater inner peace.
I have tried many different forms of meditation including guided meditation and found all of them effective. My personal preference, at the current time, is transcendental meditation on a daily basis and guided imagery for specific health issues that arise. I have also used EFT (tapping) on myself and others and it has many benefits and is very easy to learn. The EFT website I prefer is EFT
Ron,
I am extremely sorry for your loss. I did not mean to be critical in my question above, although it may have come across that way. I was just seeking some information about what one might hear from an expert ablationist like Natale whose care you are under.
I read so many apparently contradictory things. For example, just above someone indicated no limitations on exercise, whereas I have also read Natale cautions against weightlifting, especially overhead presses. I suspect these contradictions are resolved in the context of personalized care.
This is actually a big issue for me, and I have avoided ablation because of concern that I could not continue with my exercise program, which I feel is necessary for me to work and otherwise function.
Take care
Peter
I am extremely sorry for your loss. I did not mean to be critical in my question above, although it may have come across that way. I was just seeking some information about what one might hear from an expert ablationist like Natale whose care you are under.
I read so many apparently contradictory things. For example, just above someone indicated no limitations on exercise, whereas I have also read Natale cautions against weightlifting, especially overhead presses. I suspect these contradictions are resolved in the context of personalized care.
This is actually a big issue for me, and I have avoided ablation because of concern that I could not continue with my exercise program, which I feel is necessary for me to work and otherwise function.
Take care
Peter
Peter,
Just a quick note, Dr Natale just cautions Afibbers not to do very heavy bench and overhead presses above body weight ... The vast majority of folks can still engage in highly strenuous and effective exercise programs, and stay in excellent shape, after an expert ablation process.
He means the caution mainly for extreme body-builder type weight lifters and is from his frequent observation of both the need for open heart valve replacement surgery AND a super high incident of ongoing AFIB in serious competition level body builders later in life.... i.e. Arnold Schwarzenegger who has had valve surgery and AFIB, also the father of modern body building Joe Weider who died at a ripe old age of heart failure arising from complications from prior multiple valve replacements. Also, a significant number of owners and trainers of serious heavy iron gyms up and down the west coast, and in other parts of the US, have found a similar later life fate years after retiring from active competition.
When you really strain so hard and so often that you really have to grunt doing weight work, especially overhead and bench presses, it is like putting a constricting band around one's thicker-walled muscular ventricles such that this tight restrictive contraction of the ventricle's forces the two thinner-walled atria to balloon out and stretch over time which can often then lead, long-term, to leaky poorly seated cardiac valves and which also makes one especially AFIB prone due to the often dilated atria.
The vast majority of folks, though, after a successful expert AFIB ablation process, can engage in a very vigorous exercise program without having a problem just by taking a few modest precautions and applying good common sense.
Shannon
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2016 01:06PM by Shannon.
Just a quick note, Dr Natale just cautions Afibbers not to do very heavy bench and overhead presses above body weight ... The vast majority of folks can still engage in highly strenuous and effective exercise programs, and stay in excellent shape, after an expert ablation process.
He means the caution mainly for extreme body-builder type weight lifters and is from his frequent observation of both the need for open heart valve replacement surgery AND a super high incident of ongoing AFIB in serious competition level body builders later in life.... i.e. Arnold Schwarzenegger who has had valve surgery and AFIB, also the father of modern body building Joe Weider who died at a ripe old age of heart failure arising from complications from prior multiple valve replacements. Also, a significant number of owners and trainers of serious heavy iron gyms up and down the west coast, and in other parts of the US, have found a similar later life fate years after retiring from active competition.
When you really strain so hard and so often that you really have to grunt doing weight work, especially overhead and bench presses, it is like putting a constricting band around one's thicker-walled muscular ventricles such that this tight restrictive contraction of the ventricle's forces the two thinner-walled atria to balloon out and stretch over time which can often then lead, long-term, to leaky poorly seated cardiac valves and which also makes one especially AFIB prone due to the often dilated atria.
The vast majority of folks, though, after a successful expert AFIB ablation process, can engage in a very vigorous exercise program without having a problem just by taking a few modest precautions and applying good common sense.
Shannon
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2016 01:06PM by Shannon.
Also, Ron M sent me his Alivecor EKG that he had had interpreted by a cardiac tech for a smaller charge ( and who read it correctly saying that he only showed sinus PACs) and he send the same EKG strip to a full Cardiologist working for ALivecor and paid a good deal more money for his intrepretion which he got wrong saying it looke like AFIB.
Indeed, I could see it was just a few scattered PACS, but in light of the Cardiologist on call with ALivecor diagnosing it as AFIB, I sent it on to Dr Natale since RonM is his patient too, and he confirmed it was only benign PACs. Nothing at all for Ron to be concerned with.
Shannon
Indeed, I could see it was just a few scattered PACS, but in light of the Cardiologist on call with ALivecor diagnosing it as AFIB, I sent it on to Dr Natale since RonM is his patient too, and he confirmed it was only benign PACs. Nothing at all for Ron to be concerned with.
Shannon
I would add that my husband also does very intense exercise. We very specifically described the exercise for Dr. Natale and asked if it was safe to continue post-ablation. His response was a resounding yes, and he said that he felt that on balance, particularly for someone as young as my husband (he is in his 40s), exercise is very beneficial. The trick, of course, is maintaining the electrolyte balance when you're doing this sort of exercise and making sure you're not getting dehydrated.
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