Magnesium acetate

I was reading some old magnesium threads and ran across this recipe for magnesium acetate:

One can DIY magnesium acetate from Milk of Magnesia (MoM) and vinegar. Approx 2 TBSP MoM and 8 TBSP white vinegar. Stir. If not clear, add slightly more vinegar until it does. This makes about 10g (heaping TSP) of mag acetate dissolved in 150-165 ml of water. Consume the whole thing for a 10g dose, or evaporate it down to crystals and rewet to make a transdermal syrup. Use an MoM that does not contain bleach, such as Kroger or Dollar General brands. You want it to contain only magnesium hydroxide and water.

[www.afibbers.org]

It seems to suggest that one would consume the entire amount, thus consuming 3/4 of vinegar. I would personally use apple cider vinegar because white vinegar is not gluten free. However, based on just a cursory web search that much apple cider vinegar would lower your potassium levels and with repeated use could cause brittle bones.

Any thoughts on this?

Any idea how long the evaporation would take to make the paste?

Lynn,

I use organic apple cider vinegar with 2 tablespoons of milk of magensia and 7 tablespoons of the ACV. This yields about 1 gram of magnesium. So how much you consume would depend on the amount of magnesium you want. After the ACV has reacted with MOM, you have magnesium acetate not ACV. I've also made "Waller Water" (magnesium bicarbonate) by reacting milk of magnesia and carbonated water. <[www.afibbers.org] You have bicarbonate water, not carbonated water.

Per ghg: <[groups.google.com]
<[www.dropbox.com]

My last serum potassium was 4.3 mmol/L, which is right about where I want it. I also use balsamic vinegar liberally on my salad.

As to brittle bones, in Feb., I did a double eject out of my skis at 40 miles per hour, impacting my shoulder first, with only soft tissue injury. I also had a rock climbing accident 8 weeks ago where took a swing and fall and impacted my left hand, again no bone injury, just soft tissue plus ripping the skin off the hand where the impact occurred.

I should note that any magnesium, in the quantity I need, works for me for afib. This includes oxide, citrate, glycinate, malate, chloride, bicarbonate, acetate and so on.

The point of the acetate is it converts to bicarbonate in the body.

George

George thanks for your input. Good to know about your potassium levels, not doubt your bone strength is due in part to your admirable level of physical activity. So then via chemical reaction ACV is no longer ACV. I wonder if, although reacted, the ACV would still help with insulin sensitivity.

How is it that this mixture yields only 1g magnesium when the 2 T of MoM contains over 2 g of magnesium. Sorry I am not a sciencey type.

Hi Lynn,

On my MoM bottle, it says each 15 mL (which is about 1 T) contains 595 mg magnesium. So 2T's would be ~1200 mg mag. In ghg's paper, he said 1.05 g for 2T, so I was using that number. With the large amount of mag I require, 100 or 200 mg's makes little difference, so I don't pay attention to the fine details.

My bottle also says 15 mL (1T) is 1200 mg Magnesium Hydroxide. So approximately 50% of that is magnesium. This may be where the confusion comes in.

As to insulin sensitivity, I have no idea. I fast 22 hours/day and eat a near vegan (no grains, legumes, nightshades, seeded veggies or high starch veggies) high fat (mostly from unfiltered olive oil, avocados and tree nuts like macadamia, pecan, walnut) ketogenic diet. My last fasting insulin was 2 and my A1c was 4.9, so I'm not too worried about that now (though it was the reason I keto - adapted 7 years ago).

George

Thanks George, that's where I was getting confused, I thought that it had 1200 mg of magnesium per tablespoon.

In regards to your diet, I remember that you are following Gundry. I've started reading his book but haven't finished. Your diet is admirable. Why no seeded veggies, wouldn't cucumbers be ok?

Hi Lynn,

Yes we are patients of Gundry. His book was a compromise between what he did and the publisher who said the book wouldn't sell if it was that restrictive. The seeded veggies have to do with lectins, minimizing inflammation and autoimmune issues. The food list we follow is linked in this post: <[www.afibbers.org]. It will be the subject of his new book coming out April 2017.

During our last chat, I said, "When I look at your program I divide it into these major components: one would be minimizing insulin, low carb, high fat; minimizing lectins; feeding the gut biome; as an ApoE4 minimizing sdLDL by avoiding animal fats; avoiding bad oils / seed oils; not activating mTOR or spiking IGF1 by minimizing animal protein (20g/day max) and also excessive carbs; eating raw as much as possible; fasting, consumption of polyphenols. Is that a fair summary?" He agreed that it was.

Here are some Gundry links:

Gundry interview includes some ApoE4 discussion
Transcript here or here. I found I missed many things listening that I caught reading the transcript

From the transcript:

Quote

“Dr. Gundry: I do want to add a proviso that we check APOE E4 status on everybody and about 25, 30% of people carry one or both of the 4 alleles. Those people I really strongly feel that animal fats are mischief to those folks. Those folks I basically put them on a coconut fat, macadamia nut fat, olive oil fat, sesame fat and I really do limit their animal product use. With that we actually follow these small dense LDLs and we don’t quit on these folks until we get their small LDL particles down and we always do.
But this is the subset of people that I do think everyone should know their APOE status. My personal feeling is that those people, they do not do well, they should avoid animal fat product as a general rule. Can they have them? Yes, but I’d view these folks an Asian stir-fry where animal products are the garnishment to the meal is more the way these folks should eat.

Dr. Rocky: I mean I assume that fish would be relatively safer for these people.

Dr. Gundry: Believe it or not I actually use less fatty fishes. I have them get cod and mahi mahi and haddock and flounder and I stir them away from some of the fattier fishes. But I also measure omega 3 statuses 
on these guys and we actually do push up their DHAs quite a bit. But the main thing on these folks is like everybody else we’ve got to turn off all their inflammatory cytokines, because oxidized cholesterol really isn’t interested in sticking to blood vessels, getting called into action unless there is inflammation going on. Again, I view cholesterol more as an ambulance rather than an instigator.”

Gundry on lectins
Gundry Twelve Year Followup for Managing Coronary Artery Diease Using a Nutrigenomics Based Diet and Supplement Program With Quarterly Assessment of Biomarkers
Gundry Elevated Adiponectin And Tnf-alpha Levels Are Markers For Gluten And Lectin Sensitivity

Gundry abstract AHS16

quote]Much controversy continues over what constitutes the ancestral diet, yet little if any attention is given to a diet that is compatible/complimentary to the true Ancestral Genome. Approximately 30% of humans carry one or both copies of the Apolipoprotein E 4 genotype (Apo E 4). The Apo E 4 genotype is common to the great apes, but only humans can and do carry Apo E 2,3, and 4 alleles. The presence of the Apo E 4 gene has been associated with increased susceptibility to accelerated atherosclerosis, decreased longevity, susceptibility to infectious diseases, and Alzheimer’s disease, by changing the way lipoproteins interact with cell surface receptors and in regulating Amyloid Beta peptides in the brain. Because of this, we have focused our attention upon keeping the small dense oxidizable particles of LDL as low as possible via a low animal fat, high soluble fiber and resistant starch diet. We have found that limiting Triglyceride production by lessening sugars, fruits, and seeded vegetables also lowers small LDL production. We further minimize the oxidization of small LDL particles using generous amounts of polyphenol rich Olive Oil as well as the polyphenols in Resveratrol, Grape Seed Extract, Turmeric, and Pomegranate Seed Oil and Extracts. Shellfish are emphasized as the animal protein of choice if desired. Unfortunately, the Paleo Diet, with its high animal fat and protein components, produces the exact opposite effect to what needs to happen in these patients. Using this protocol, we have successfully minimized the deleterious effects of this “Ancestral Gene” in thousands of patients followed for up to 15 years, many now successfully aging into their mid to late 80’s without consequence. [/quote]

Gundry talk at AHS16
Gundry Q&A at AHS16
Gundry on heart scans and an alternative test
Gundry on weight loss and homocysteine

Thank you, for the Gundry info, very informative.

I myself have the E3/E3 genotype so can I assume that I would not have to reduce animal fats. My bigger concern of late is an A1c of 5.7, which one of my doctors thinks is attributable to insulin resistance from metoprolol. I've always been a low carb, higher fat type although as of late I do allow the occassional dessert. My afib episodes have become more frequent, do increased blood sugar levels increase afib?

Lynn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I myself have the E3/E3 genotype so can I assume
> that I would not have to reduce animal fats.

Yes, that is correct.

> My bigger concern of late is an A1c of 5.7, which one
> of my doctors thinks is attributable to insulin
> resistance from metoprolol. I've always been a low
> carb, higher fat type although as of late I do
> allow the occassional dessert. My afib episodes
> have become more frequent, do increased blood
> sugar levels increase afib?

Possibly. Many afibbers (usually those with adrenergic triggers, not so much those who got to afib via chronic fitness) have comorbitities like hypertension. In those cases, reducing metabolic disfunction may help. In 2011, I wrote about my friend, a WPW (Wolfe Parkinson White) ablatee who experiences debilitating PAC runs with intense exercise when she eats a carby diet. <[www.afibbers.org] This can still happen today, though she typically avoids this by eating a ketogenic diet.

I'm definitely androgenic. No high BP either. I found Dr. Gundry's interview intriguing. I had never heard of the A2 type of dairy. I wonder if the diet he would recommend to a e3/e3 would differ in fat content from his book. Seems like he approved of the host's daily breakfast of bacon and eggs. My high-sensitivity CRP is .5 so inflammation doesn't seem to be an issue. I was surprised that he didn't think carb loading would be harmful per se. It takes a few days to get back into ketosis so carb loading once a week seems counter productive.

In your experience with Keto diets do calories seem to matter even if you are eating very low carb? It didn't use to for me, but now I can eat less that 40g of carbs and not lose a pound if I don't tighten up those calories.

Lynn,

In his 2008 book, Diet Evolution, he wasn't as pro-fat as he is today. He says he and his wife split 1.5 L of unfiltered extra virgin olive oil/week. My wife and I are more like 1 L/week. I fast 22 hours/day. I typically eat a cup or more of his allowed nuts as part of my pre-dinner appetizer. Last week we traveled and I decided to forgo nuts for the the week (of course nuts have fat, protein and carbs). I lost 8 pounds in 6 days. I wasn't measuring serum ketones, but my urine ketones were at 40 mg/dL, which usually equates to >2 mmol/L serum betahydroxybuterate. My fasting blood sugar was in the higher 70's (mg/dL) and would end the day in the mid 60's. If I water fast, my blood glucose will drop quickly into the 50's and my serum beta hydroxybuterate with go to 5.6 mmol/L in two days. Calories do matter for me. I add the nuts back in and put a few pounds back on.

As to the bacon and eggs, he does limit us to 20g animal protein/day because of mTOR and IGF-1 reasons. This Ron Rosedale talk will only be up free through tomorrow (Oct 6, Thurs). Ron goes into this reasoning in detail <[www.youtube.com]


George