Supplements logic

Hello everyone,

I know we all do what we got to do normally with the supplements we take every day. I'm not debating about it. But, sometimes I just wonder, if magnesium, taurine, potassium, etc are so important for us and we go out of our way to fill them up every single day, and there are people who would care less about nutrition, let alone supplements and they go on living happily til 90 or 100 without knowing what the word Afib means. Well, you know what I'm saying.

And then the other day, I listened to Stopafib.org archived video chat of Cleveland Clinic's Dr. Walid Saliba and Dr. Oussama Wazni which was recorded on May 16th this year, and they reiterate about no clinical trials to support the facts of using supplements to alleviate Afib and that supplements may actually be bad for Afib.

Personally, sometimes, I get so frustrated with so many supplements I take in a day, watch carefully for triggers, what to eat and not to eat, etc. and bam, Afib episodes still came violently. And there are days, I get so mad and said the heck with it, and eat and do whatever I want, don't watch for triggers, and bam, no episodes at all, perfect NSR.

I just don't get it. Is there logic to this madness?
Thanks for letting me vent in a way.

Duke

Hey Duke........Im with you !!! If it can be controlled this way why aren't the docs saying
"take this" "Take that" ? My cardiologist told me to be very careful taking supplements
and that a multivit is all I really need ????? I dont get it either, and everything is so personalized
Are we all lacking different things? IDK

I am so tired of taking all the supplements I do everyday. I think surely I can do without some.
But I have not had an afib event for well over a year. So I will keep taking them, I think some of
us don't make the supplements we need so we must add them.

Duke:

I think taking a lot of supplements without knowing what you are deficient in is folly. I am one who has taken some vitamins most of my life, I used to take Vit. C, fish oil, the B vitamins and calcium tabs, I have been pretty healthy but I did get an overactive thyroid (Graves disease, my father had this as well), then when I was in my sixties I got AF (due to too much thyroid hormone) although my mother also had AF. So, my theory is that we are programed in our genes for certain disorders, they can hit due to some kind of life trauma or perhaps not at all.

I do think that magnesium is helpful, some fish oil, vit. D and all the B vitamins, plus I take Vit. K, I take these vitamins not because I think they will hold AF at bay but because I believe they improve my overall health. I don't take all the supplements that are spoken about here, nor do I think that certain foods trigger my AF, so I don't worry about what I should eat, although I will say that I don't eat processed foods,, I cook most everything from scratch, I just think that is more healthy.

I don't drink or smoke, so I would say that is a plus for me, I just don't like it. There is too much written here about "acid is bad, Alkaline is good", I think that is hype, your body adjusts it won't let you get too acid or alkaline. Magnetic fields is another, many of these diets, they come and go, gluetin free is another one which is supposed to cause all kinds of problems, that will eventually go the way of all the other goofy diets, they make money for the authors of these books.

I say take a few vitamins that is needed for your health, eat whole foods, relax and enjoy life, we all have some kind of problems in our lives, try some things and if they work, great, if not, well, you gave it a shot. Personally, I think that a good whole B vitamin is essential for heart health.

Liz

I take magnesium (approx. 650 mg a day; that is currently my bowel tolerance) and Quercetin. I have had a Cather Ablation so I take magnesium because I do believe it is extremely important from what I have read on this website and on the Internet.

Quercentin I take for inflammatory reasons since I currently cannot take Ibuprofen. I have chronic Interstitial Cystitis.

Everything is a choice and a opinion. I live in a very rural area of Louisiana and I cannot get all these elaborate test to check my deficiencies but I do believe I am low on magnesium due to my prescription meds intake. The blood test showed my Magnesium was fine b ut thats the only test I can get around this very rural area.

I will agree many Doctors including my Cardiologist Warn against taking huge amounts of supplements because they are not FDA regulated and you do not know what interactions they could contain.

I am in NSR and currently doing good. Read,study, make your own decision.

5 mg Valium a day as needed.
20 mg Prozac daily
15 mg Prevacid a day
60 cc shot of Testosterone Cypionate every 10 days. Testosterone is low due to schedule two narcotics.
.5 mg Arimidex 2x a week to keep Estrogen levels in check. T shots can cause rise in Estrogen.

100 mg Metoprolol ER 1x a day
25 mg HydroDiuril fluid pill 1x a day every 2 days.
Neurontin 900mg a day (for Neuropathic pain IC/CPPS)
800 mg of Magnesium daily . Different types
81 mg aspirin 1X a day. Heart Doctor order due to stent installed in Jan. 2012.
2.5 mg Eliquis 2X a day

Miralax 1x a day for constipation issues. I have tried so many different methods for Constipation since 2008. Fiber is in my diet but to much Fiber really Constipates me.




25 mg/hcr Fentanyl.patch changed every 2 days

1st ablation done Feb. 27, 2014 for Long term persistent AFIB Dr. Natale
2nd Ablation done June 16,2016 Dr. Natale LAA isolated

Duke - I'm willing to bet that your frustrations have been shared with every 'beginner' who visits this site. It's darn inconvenient to take a lot of supplements and watch this and that and there is typically a lot of whining about the discipline issues of avoiding this and taking that. However, in the 11 years that I've been participating with this forum, countless numbers of afibbers have written to express their gratefulness for the guidance and advice that helped them regain their health by improving diet, lifestyle and nutritional status whether or not they eventually had an ablation. If you asked them today, I know they would have no regrets.

In the field of Functional Medicine or Restorative Medicine, there is an abundance of reliable information supporting the need for nutritional supplements that are targeted toward reversing the ailment or disease condition. These practitioners have taken advanced courses and many are certified so they can provide guidance for nutritional deficiencies detected by specific nutritional testing.... example would be Genova Diagnostics NutrEval or Metametrix Comprehensive Metabolic Profile. There is no way one can 'guess' where deficiencies lie without testing. Unfortunately, we don't generally get that from our GPs or Primary Care doctors because they are no longer studying that aspect of health in med school. Worse, they make statements about supplements that are totally wrong for a variety of reasons. (I'm working on a post right now on that very topic).

There are common deficiency 'trends' that show up repeatedly which have earned the logical assumption approach that .... for instance... if you live in an area with long winter months that lack sunshine, odds are, you'll be deficient in vitamin D. Or... if you have grown up drinking fluoridated water, odds are that you are deficient in iodine... same would be true if you lived in an area with natural fluoride content in the drinking water. If you are on PPIs or acid blockers for stomach problems, odds are that you are deficient in the nutrients that help you make your own stomach acid and deficient in B vitamins. Or... if you have arrhythmia, odds are that you are deficient in the mineral magnesium. If you have a diet that is mostly processed, packaged foods, odds are your sodium is elevated and your potassium is depleted which can cause arrhythmia ... and/or hypertension.

The question you bring up is common. The fact is that the American Standard Diet... (SAD) is woefully deficient in nutrients means that when manifestations of nutritional deficiencies show up as clinical health issues, the medical establishment typically offers a drug to quell the symptoms but that doesn't address the core issue of what caused the ailment in the first place.

People wishing to avoid the expense of Rx drugs or an invasive surgical procedure often turn to Functional Medicine approaches which aim at restoring what's missing and cleaning up die,lifestyles and detrimental environmental exposures to a plethora of toxins.

Nutritional advice offered here on this forum since its inception is aimed at restoring health to the afib patient so they have a good chance of lessening the symptoms, improving ablation outcomes and often, reversing the afib trend with only lifestyle and dietary changes ...plus optimizing the core nutrients that support heart health and proper electrical conduction capabilities. Toward that end, The List was compiled which tells the details of how many reversed their afib and didn't need an ablation or drugs.

I'm fond of saying:

Knowledge is Power...
Knowledge is Health.

And..

Life is about Choices. Make educated Choices. It's up to you.

Be well,
Jackie

Jackie, looks like you need a doctor to order at least the Metametrix tests? I'd rather not get into that with my GP but I guess I could - looks useful - thanks

I was taking quite a few different afib and heart related supplements prior to ablation last January, when I was sick daily with afib. It was clear my atrial disease had advanced beyond the point where supplementation could arrest the progression (and gut issues may have been contributing as well). I stopped them all for surgery. After ablation, I decided to re-introduce them slowly and one at a time starting with magnesium...while on a potassium rich, low sodium, low calcium diet. This way I could study the effect, positive or negative, or each supplement. Three weeks ago I re-started co-enzyme Q10, and I have noticed a clear improvement in orthostatic hypotension and fewer premature contractions. OK, not totally controlled science but I think CoQ10 has helped...and it is especially indicated since my heart is still dilated and I have diastolic dysfunction. I don't want to resume taurine or L-carnitine right now because sometimes they can be too stimulating and I don't want to jeopardize a so-far successful ablation. My next experiment is probiotics because, thanks to Jackie's very helpful advice, I got a CDSA through Genova Diagnostics and it showed--literally--no growth of the most important friendly bacteria. Who knows how much of my supplements and vitamins were not being synthesized or getting through due to such GI issues. So I'll start the probiotics as soon as they arrive, make no other changes for awhile, and hope they too will have a beneficial effect. If I can re-colonize and re-balance GI bacteria, possibly I'll get a bigger "kick" from the supplements and vitamins I do take. So that's my little journey of the moment. - Randy

Thank you all for your comments

Tsco: Did you already have an ablation?

Dee: You mentioned, "So I will keep taking them, I think some of us don't make the supplements we need so we must add them." Unless I'm wrong, but our body does not produce the supplements, therefore, we normally get them by food (even before or after supplements were invented).

Liz: I don't smoke nor drink neither. I'm allergic to alcohol. Before Afib, I used to may be have a beer once in a long while, but that's it. And I used to casual smoke, but I quit very easily after Afib. Now, I don't eat processed foods, watch out for those MSG, preservatives, etc. but, like I said, Afib still comes when and wherever it feels like it.

Smackman: I thought the purpose of ablation is, besides eliminating Afib completely, to reduce/eliminate drugs and/or supplements, and yet, you're still taking just as much or may be even more. I mean, I do understand the saying "ablation does not solve the underlying problem....., etc" but your list of things you're taking daily, especially for someone already had an ablation, is quite something. That's just my thought.

Jackie: Thank you for your persistence and knowledge of supplements. Like I stated in my post, I don't debate about the supplements. I do take them daily. But, at times, when Afib attack, I go insane trying to figure out what am I missing or what I did wrong. And when I thought I figured out the reason and tried to correct it, Afib comes again. Then, the cycles keep on repeating, until I run out of explanations or reasons why Afib shows up again and again randomly when it wants to. That's why, for now, in my mind, there's no logic to it. And hence, the frustration.

Randy: I recently got rid of H. Pylori infection a couple weeks ago with antibiotics. When I was diagnosed with H. Pylori, I thought that if I can get rid of it, then I can reduce my Afib episodes to may be a few times a year like some of you on this site. But, that reasoning is disappointing to me as well because not long after the treatment, Afib is back to its normal routine. That's why I'm back to scratching my head and shaking my head.

Duke

Duke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Smackman: I thought the purpose of ablation is,
> besides eliminating Afib completely, to
> reduce/eliminate drugs and/or supplements, and
> yet, you're still taking just as much or may be
> even more. I mean, I do understand the saying
> "ablation does not solve the underlying
> problem....., etc" but your list of things you're
> taking daily, especially for someone already had
> an ablation, is quite something. That's just my
> thought.

Duke

Duke,
The medications I take are for more than AFIB. I have a chronic back issue and I also have a uncureable bladder problem called Interstitial Cystitis.

I no longer take Multaq; I will be off Xarelto "soon". Thats the only medications I take for AFIB. I have been in NSR since my Ablation in Feb. 2014.

Metorprolol is now for blood pressure.

I also suffer from Anxiety due to my chronic medical issues.

I take Magnesium for Health and well being and Quercetin for bladder pain/inflammation.

See, you do not know the whole story. If you are against supplememnts, Gods Speed. Have a wonderful day but be more informed before making a judgement about my health and medications.

What is your overall reasoning for this thread? Everyone has a different approach to treating there AFIB. You do what works for you and I will do what I need to do to stay healthy in mind and body. You stressing over supplements is not good. I know Anxiety will trigger AFIB in my life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2014 08:34AM by smackman.

Whatever your individual supplement program is, the number you take probably going to increase over time if your health care provider, live or Internet, has a store that sells supplements in his practice, one or more of which is more than likely to be recommended to you.

My wife has developed breast cancer and I notice that the cadre of health care providers we are currently consulting are now recommending supplements that in general are patented; therefore not generally available with price competition, even though the ingredients are almost all generic. It's also amazing how many new Internet companies offer specialized testing and solutions of peripheral issues but don't take insurance.

I shy away from all multi level marketing companies and most supplement companies based in Utah, which seems to be a state that pioneers new patented anecdotal solutions. Lots of hyping of new ways to separate us from our money without hard data.

Personally I like and trust LEF and Hans store. I buy most of my year's supplements from LEF during their annual sale but my wife's recent diagnosis has thrown a monkey wrench into that method. The more consultations we have the more confused we seem to become. Sometimes TMI is not beneficial.

Gordon

Duke,

yes I have had five ablations.

Four in right side : Dr. Rukavina / Dr. Tomassoni / Dr. Natale / Dr. Tomassoni
One in left side : Dr. Tomassoni this was for afib performed this year in Feb

I am 52 in excellent physical condition, Never smoked, Drink moderately

Duke,

"But, sometimes I just wonder, if magnesium, taurine, potassium, etc are so important for us and we go out of our way to fill them up every single day, and there are people who would care less about nutrition, let alone supplements and they go on living happily til 90 or 100 without knowing what the word Afib means."

When I was first trying to figure out how to deal with this beast, I thought that serum potassium level might be one important item (this is before I learned about using a Cardymeter to test for saliva potassium levels). I was having a discussion about this with my primary care doctor. He said he spent his day putting people into hypokalemia (low serum potassium) with the use of diuretics for blood pressure. He asked why they didn't all have afib. My answer was genetics. At the time (about 10 years ago), the Cleveland Clinic had published a study showing that people with afib had extra P cells in their pulmonary veins. I showed him the study and he accepted it.

Looking for a "cause" for afib is a difficult task, whether a mineral/electrolyte deficiency or excess or something else. It can be hard to judge cause and effect. When I first started this exercise, I wanted an indicator that had a little more sensitivity than just afib/NSR. I decided to use PAC & PVC rates from a recording heart rate monitor. (See <[www.afibbers.org] and <[www.afibbers.org] ). My protocol was to meditate with a monitor on, so I would minimize data artifact due to my movement. I would record my heart rate, then examine the data and count PAC's and PVC rates per hour. I would change my diet, supplements or whatever and see the changes - obviously trying to lower them. I kept notes as to my interventions as well as the outcome, trying to only change one thing at a time. There are certainly variations in the data, but it did work reasonably well. I was able to arrive at a protocol that worked for me. When I was looking for ideas of things I could vary, I searched many of the posts here, going back years as well as the medical literature. I was fortunate to arrive at a protocol that worked well for a number of years, keeping me in remission. Then I had a lot of stress in my life and the protocol ceased working as well. I became sensitive to many more triggers. I thought the poor results were due to stress, but after a year or so, I examined everything in my lifestyle from a zero base. I realized I'd added a lot of calcium because I was stress eating a lot (huge) quantity of cheese. I remembered that calcium can be a bad actor with afib, so I reduced it dramatically. I had tried many things to help my situation during that year, with some, but not complete success. The calcium reduction worked and my control reverted to a state I'm very happy with.

Though I take a number of other supplements for various reasons, I never miss my 2x daily afib ones. It is a logistical hassle when I travel as 4g/day of magnesium is a material amount when you are out of touch with civilization for a couple of weeks (as I was last summer and am planning future wilderness trips ). However I think the hassle is well worth the result. Using dimagnesium malate powder, which is 20% mag by weight, 4g/day works out to 4/0.2*14 = 280 g (0.6 pounds) of powder. Though it has yet to be an issue, carrying 0.6 pounds of white powder (plus other powders like potassium & taurine) through security always gives me pause...

I empathize with you. It is a hassle. It can be very frustrating. It doesn't always work and can be hard to figure out what will work. One person's genetics and heart fibrosis may not allow for a non-ablation solution, no matter how hard they work and how persistent they are.

George



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2014 03:02PM by GeorgeN.

Electrolytes - wearable tech

[spectrum.ieee.org]

Smack

You wrote the following:


See, you do not know the whole story. If you are against supplememnts, Gods Speed. Have a wonderful day but be more informed before making a judgement about my health and medications.

What is your overall reasoning for this thread? Everyone has a different approach to treating there AFIB. You do what works for you and I will do what I need to do to stay healthy in mind and body. You stressing over supplements is not good. I know Anxiety will trigger AFIB in my life.

We can only go by what is posted, you list your supplements and drugs, most think you do take a lot of each.

I agree with Duke as to taking a boat load of supplements will probably not keep AF at bay. Jackie takes a lot of supplements for her AF, she has had an ablation and is at this time having problems with AF, she is taking antiarrthythmic drugs as well, AF may have flared up for her because of a treatment she has been taking, maybe yes, maybe no. But, if supplements can keep AF at bay, why isn't it?

I too question most everything, I don't blindly accept what is offered, that isn't stressing that is realism and smart. To me, stressing over what supplement to take, what foods to avoid, what activity to avoid is worse.

I knew a man who owned a health food store, his father owned it before him, the father died in his seventies, the son died last year in his sixties of cancer. They both ate a healthy diet and had access to tons of supplements, didn't do them any good.

We all do our best, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It is good to question, we learn more by questioning then we do by just blindly following someones protocol.

Liz

I to wonder about the amount of supplements we take.

When I think about it, we get Afib and the next day we are perfectly ok until the next event. If it was due to an electrolyte imbalance we would surely have Afib until imbalance was corrected. Maybe it does correct and that why Afib stops?
The question is, why does our electrolytes go out of balance compared to people who don't get Afib? We eat better than them, we take supplements, they don't. They drink alcohol, (some, lots) eat what they like, and don't get Afib.
We take a lot of supplements to correct our electrolytes but still get Afib.

My neighbour has had Afib for 25 years, he is now in his late 80's. Back then they gave him a pacemaker and put him on warfarin, he's not taking any supplements and he is still kicking. And he doesn't get Afib.
Maybe we should invent a devise that we could use with our smart phones to stop Afib. Then we could live a normal life without supplements.

I wonder?

Colin

Elizabeth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Smack
>
> You wrote the following:
>
>
> See, you do not know the whole story. If you are
> against supplememnts, Gods Speed. Have a wonderful
> day but be more informed before making a judgement
> about my health and medications.
>
> What is your overall reasoning for this thread?
> Everyone has a different approach to treating
> there AFIB. You do what works for you and I will
> do what I need to do to stay healthy in mind and
> body. You stressing over supplements is not good.
> I know Anxiety will trigger AFIB in my life.
>
> We can only go by what is posted, you list your
> supplements and drugs, most think you do take a
> lot of each.
>
>
And like I said the drugs I take are for other illnesses not associated with AFIB. I take one prescription drug that is associated with my AFIB and that is Xarelto. I know of no one who takes these drugs due to AFIB:
25 MCG/HR Fentanyl Patch Change every 2 days
300 mg Neurotin 4X a day
100 mg Elmiron 3X a day
10 mg Elavil 1X at bedtime
1 mg Ativan 4X a day

That is what I meant about being informed. These prescription drugs have ZERO to do with preventing or helping AFIB. Most would obviously know this that have dealt with AFIB. I was taking these drugs before AFIB came into my life BUT hopefully the Ablation I had done by the Maestro of EP's has but this beast to bed. So far doing really well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2014 06:13PM by smackman.

colindo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I to wonder about the amount of supplements we
> take.
>
> When I think about it, we get Afib and the next
> day we are perfectly ok until the next event. If
> it was due to an electrolyte imbalance we would
> surely have Afib until imbalance was corrected.
> Maybe it does correct and that why Afib stops?
> The question is, why does our electrolytes go out
> of balance compared to people who don't get Afib?
> We eat better than them, we take supplements, they
> don't. They drink alcohol, (some, lots) eat what
> they like, and don't get Afib.
> We take a lot of supplements to correct our
> electrolytes but still get Afib.
>
> My neighbour has had Afib for 25 years, he is now
> in his late 80's. Back then they gave him a
> pacemaker and put him on warfarin, he's not taking
> any supplements and he is still kicking. And he
> doesn't get Afib.
> Maybe we should invent a devise that we could use
> with our smart phones to stop Afib. Then we could
> live a normal life without supplements.
>
> I wonder?
>
> Colin

My AFIB never went away unless I was electro cardioverted back into NSR.No popping in and out; Persistent AFIB. Sometimes there is no answer for Why I went into AFIB.

Duke - if you haven't read Sharon Glass's reports and post on her experiences with H. pylori and subsequently her reversal of Afib, you should do a search on all forums and check out her Conference Room session. She did alter her diet some and it did take a considerable amount of time for the whole process, but she made it and is doing well. She now works with an H. pylori support group.

Whenever you have treat for gut pathogens, afterwards, high dose and long-term restoration of the good gut bacteria is essential with top-quality, high count probiotics. There are many reports on the topic online… check out Life Extension for one source. See the report titled The Gut Connection to Afib… [www.afibbers.org]

The synergy of how the electrolytes function... especially the key electrolyte, magnesium, essential in over 300 enzymatic reactions is undoubtedly one of the very significant findings on why some are affected by arrhythmia and others are not...especially, if there is a genetic mutation that prevents proper utilization of magnesium.

The 'bible' reference on magnesium, Magnesium Deficiency in the Pathogenesis of Disease Early Roots of Cardiovascular, Skeletal and Renal Abnormalities by the late Mildred S. Seelig, MD, MPH, FACN, is a trove of research findings about how magnesium deficiencies affect health. (see www.mgwater.com) For many years, on this forum, we have explored many of the topics Dr. Seelig presents as they relate to the onset of Atrial Fibrillation connecting the dots to observable conclusions and experiential testimonials.

As I commented initially, poor dietary habits, lifestyles and environmental toxins lie at the 'heart' of the majority of poor health conditions and biochemical/biophysical individuality and genetic expression determines how the deficiencies play out.

Anytime we have inflammation playing behind the scenes, especially, if we are prone to arrhythmias, then you can fairly well count that Afib will be one of the common results from that inflammation....whereas (as an example), another individual might have a stroke or MI from the silent inflammation process.

I view my experiences with Afib and recently the Lyme treatments that cause heart irritation very illuminating as validation and support for the efficacy of targeted supplements because, without the presence of that foundational base already established by my support supplements for various systems (thyroid, adrenal, CV, gut, etc) I'd undoubtedly be much worse. I cringe thinking about what might have been.

My adaptive system is functioning very well as reported on my recent assessment that measures electronically the ability of my body to adapt to the environmental stressors by looking at the timing of pulse and determining the balance and tension within the nervous system...known as Heart Rate Variability.

According to the literature on this measurement... " Stressful lifestyles or habits, including poor dietary choices, limited exercise and constant emotional aggravation can cause the body to be caught in the "fight-flight" response which can lead to exhaustion and draining of a person's reserves. Heart rate variability scores show the degree of adaptability and relates to a healthy lifestyle. Low HR variability is associated with accelerated aging and poor heart health."

I was pleased that my HR variability has continually improved since my initial test score of 83 in 2012 to the new result of 98 which is in the category of Excellent... (Category score range 95-100)... as measured by the CoreScore(TM) Neural Efficiency Index. My overall total CoreScore of 91 (this time) which includes a Surface EMG (Muscle Tone and Balance) and a Thermal Scan (Organ and Gland Control) has improved from the initial overall score in 2012 of 80.

So, for me, using targeted nutritional support and the unique chiropractic treatments for improving spinal nerve function has helped me tremendously and the proof is right there in the test scores.

Be well,
Jackie


Conference Room Links for H.pylori

H.pylori eradication by natural means – Sharon Glass
[www.afibbers.org]
[www.afibbers.org]

Reference to CoreScore(TM)... see [www.subluxation.com]

afhound99..... Unless something has changed, you do require a practitioner's requisition. Sometimes you can get use a chiropractor whose practice is more nutritionally oriented so you don't have the confrontation of the GP or PCP. The tests are extremely useful.

I hope you can find someone to order for you.

Be well,
Jackie

Liz -

The acid/alkaline factor in maintaining health is a long-standing fact based on successes in reversing a variety of ailments as a result of maintaining alkaline tissue status.

This has nothing to do with the body's automatic balancing of blood pH but rather has to do with tissue acidity or alkalinity as a result of food intake that metabolizes to alkaline or acid ash residues or waste products. When blood pH becomes out of range, there are serious and immediate consequences.... and unless a person becomes very ill, the body does this regulation automatically.

Whereas, those who have acidic tissue are more likely to support diseases that thrive in acidic conditions that brew behind the scenes and eventually manifest in a wide variety of adverse health conditions. Cancer being one of the most notable consequences.

Now a classic reference on this topic, Alkalize or Die (Baroody) is a basic primer for understanding the principles of why we need to control tissue acidity and remain as alkaline as possible. There are many other newer publications elaborating on this preventive technique to maintain good health such as Dr. Tennant's book, Healing is Voltage

Maintaining a state of alkalinity goes a long way toward managing or maintaining the proper allostatic load that is so vital to health and well being.

Jackie

Jackie:

From personal experience, not from authors of books, even science what they say today is verbatten tomorrow, my brother was mostly a vegetarian for most of his life, he ate mostly vegetables, eggs, apples, grapes, berries, he did eat a little meat on occasion. I would say his diet would be mostly alkaline, yet he got cancer and died from it.

The guy I knew who owned the Health Food store ate very little meat as well, he ate most foods that were more alkaline. The paleo diet that a lot of people think is a great diet, has meat/fats, meat is acid, I eat meat I feel better when I include good proteins.

Tell me Jackie, from personal experience, how many people do you know of that cured their disease with an alkaline diet? I don't care about these people that have written books.

Liz

Thanks Jackie - if the Chiro can do it that would be good. I'll ask while he is cracking my neck sometime...

afhound... The chiro I see does not do that type of manipulation... just the Directional Non-force stimulation technique of spinal nerves... the touch is mostly very light. I never let anyone 'crack' or manipulate my neck... I've heard too many reports of freeing up a carotid artery plaque and causing a stroke. Some chiro's claim that's not possible, but it definitely is. An young-ish acquaintence in her late 50's ruptured a carotid plaque doing a yoga posture.

Liz - Hopefully all the fresh produce was organic with no pesticide sprays or residues.

The most graphic cancer cure example I can offer is Cindy Wheatcraft of Chagrin Falls, Ohio, whose story I have posted previously. She's the picture of health (5 years later) with clear mammograms after using strictly the pH alkalinity protocol to cure her ductal breast cancer. No meds; no surgery; no radiation. Just a very strict dietary protocol..

My personal testimony for alkalinity in reversing the symptoms of arthritis about 18 years ago is still accurate. And I could easily relate at least 20 other examples of acquaintances that reversed ailments by alkaline eating.

I would not want to attempt to guess about your brother’s situation and his exposure to oxidative stress or environmental toxins and if I recall, he was also diabetic which compromises everything. Oxidative stress is damaging in several ways. It promotes the creation of damaging free radicals, molecules which can cause healthy DNA to mutate and can lead to heart disease and cancer.

My long-standing exposure to the experience and knowledge of anti-aging and functional medicine practitioners and their patient successes indicates that maintaining alkaline body tissue is primary prevention to help avoid developing various adverse conditions that thrive when acidic tissue is prevalent. About 20 years ago, I took a course offered by one of the pioneers of the ‘pH alkaline tissue theory’…. who emphasized that it was not only food and beverage intake that caused acidity but negative thoughts, resentment, overwork, fear, anger, jealousy and stress, resentment. I recall him saying that would overpower any good from eating the alkaline-ash producing foods.

Then, Liz, about a year ago,I responded the following to you:

...........Regarding the “curing cancer comment”… no physician today would dare risk making such a claim and expect to continue to hold his license.

However, as outlined in the Alkalinity/Inside Story post, Dr. Tennant explains that cell voltage equals pH and that voltage/pH ranges from minus 50 millivolts which equates to the ability to make new cells down to plus 30 mv supports cancer. So we can deduce that cancer and all other ailments can be prevented or reversed when cell voltage is optimal and the necessary raw materials to make new cells are available to the body. Every cell in the body is designed to run at a voltage of -20 - -25 millivolts. We heal (and retain health) by the ability to make new cells which requires – 50 mv.

From that same report:

Cells are 70% water..

Cells run in a narrow pH range 7.35 – 7.45 or (minus) -20 mV to -25 mV. pH is a measurement of voltage in a solution

We can only get well and stay well by making new cells. Illness is a manifestation of the inability to make new cells that work. To make new cells, -50 mV are required.

When your voltage is low and you can’t get up to -50 mV, then you are stuck in chronic disease… because the only way you can get well is to make the cells to replace those that are destroyed by various forms of injury. If you can’t make new cells (which you can’t if you can’t get to -50 mV), then whatever part or organ that is damaged will never work right.

An acidic environment (low pH) invites disease states.

At a voltage of minus 15 mV or cell pH of 7.26, patients will be tired. At minus 10 mV (7.18 cell pH), they are sick. Cancer occurs at +30 mV or cell pH of 6.48) At a pH of slightly above 7.4 (salivary pH 6.5), cancer cells become dormant and at a pH of 8.5 (salivary pH 7.8), cancer cells die while healthy cells live). The higher the pH reading, the more alkaline and oxygen-rich, the fluid.

Moderator: What impedes someone from achieving that negative 50 mV and have healing?

A. Requirements to make new cells
1. Voltage
2. Raw materials: proteins (amino acids), fats, vitamins and minerals to make it all work.

Elaborating further, on building new cells, Dr. Tennant says…
An often overlooked fact is that the amino acids (proteins) in foods are only available if there is stomach acid to convert the proteins (and they must be the full complement of essential amino acids.) To make adequate stomach acid, you need vitamin B1, iodine and zinc. Without stomach acid, you can’t absorb zinc even if you take it, so you have to take a Betaine hydrochloric acid tablet with zinc so it can be absorbed. Further to that, he says without zinc, you can’t make the neurochemicals serotonin and dopamine and that people on PPIs are essentially guaranteed to become depressed. (Healing is Voltage).

In Healing is Voltage, Dr. Tennant also relates that as voltage begins to drop, oxygen leaves the cells. This has serious consequences in that our metabolism and cells have a very difficult time functioning without enough energy. Low oxygen levels enable or activate the 1 trillion microorganisms inhabiting our body that are typically inactive when oxygen is present. But when oxygen levels drop, he says: “These bugs want to have lunch…and lunch is you” . They put out digestive enzymes to dissolve your cells walls so they can consume the nutrients inside. Worse, those enzymes can enter the blood stream and cause damage to various organs such as the Strep bacteria causing damage to heart valves. Just one example of many.

When Dr. Tennant uses the Biomodulator, he scans the body via the fascia of meridian systems to determine the voltage. In areas found to be low, he can then deliver electrons to restore the voltage to healthy levels which recharges the body’s battery, as explained in his book, Healing is Voltage, which contains 313 pages.

Quoting from the Alkalinity post:

Biomodulator
Moderator: Talk about the Biomodulator…It both scans for voltage in the meridians and can be used to put electrons back as a therapeutic intervention.

A. A variety of methods have been developed to measure voltage. Nagatani was the first with Voll the following year - two primary methods.

I personally use the measurement mode in my Biomodulator which is about the size of a computer mouse that has electrodes on the back and controls on the front so you can simply put it in your measurement mode and tap into the appropriate wire and measure what’s at the other end of it. and then if you like, you can switch into the therapy mode and deliver electrons through that same wire (meridian) and watch the voltage rise in that organ.

The ability to measure voltage in organs has been a great improvement for me to figure out what is going on and a specific cause.

Voltage drops before labs go South and labs get bad before people have symptoms so the voltage is the early warning sign telling you that something is about to go bad if it hasn’t already because you don’t have the ability to make new cells in that system.

Remember that chronic pain is simply a symptom of low voltage. And of course, if the voltage is low, you can’t make cells so you are stuck there but it’s important to recognize that chronic pain is simply a symptom of low voltage so if you insert enough electrons and bring the voltage up to 25 mV, it will quit hurting. Of course, it will start hurting again if you don’t get up to 50 mV so you can make new cells out and actually heal the area. (end quote)

Many other practitioners who treat by managing pH (or voltage) find remarkable results. Acidic pH supports disease including cancer.
Acid-producing foods, beverages and environmental influences including stress and emotions such as fear, anxiety, jealousy, anger, and overwork contribute to the acid load.

I’ve previously mentioned the Cindy Wheatcraft story (U-Tube) about a woman in a nearby community who follows Robert O. Young’s pH treatment plan (The pH Miracle) and cured her breast cancer with no other medical interventions – documented by before and after scans. She continues to thrive and operates a holistic health center where one can purchase freshly-made alkaline drinks that support the dietary requirements Dr. Young recommends to maintain healthy pH (voltage).

All we have to do is connect the dots when discussing the potential for healing with alkalinity and voltage.
Jackie



For new readers interested in learning more, check the post in the General Forum post titled Alkalinity, Healing, pH and Voltage – The Inside Story at this link [www.afibbers.org]

PS.... one of the easiest methods to assist in maintaining alkalility is drinking the home-made WW (magnesium bicarbonate water)... since we benefit so much from the bicarbonate ion along with the magnesium that we all need to continually optimize.

Skoal!
Jackie

" An young-ish acquaintence in her late 50's ruptured a carotid plaque doing a yoga posture"

What happened to her? I guess I could cut back on the neck cracking but I've had that dozens of time so far without incident.
Worst chiro thing for me was a new guy I tried out at the recommendation of someone - gave me some bruised ribs

Jackie:

My brother was never a diabetic, he was healthy for all of his life until the prostrate cancer. As I believe and said many times, some cancers are more vicious, some more benign as with AF. There are people that have cancers and recover without all of the hoopla that you are describing, some try everything and it doesn't work

I eat a good diet, take a few supplements, exercise, in fact I do more hard physical work then most women that are a lot younger than me. I will leave all of the alkalinity/acidity voltage etc. to you, I think a lot of it is hype, but that is just me.

Liz

Sure, but as long as you're not harming yourself with supplements, which can happen but which is presumably mitigated to some extent by lab tests if not common sense and basic research, what's the downside of taking them? Cost and constantly cramming pills down the throat. You'll never know if you live to 100 if it was because of them.

I read about a guy lived to 100+ and he said he just ate good food in moderation, didn't drink much alcohol and didn't smoke, just took a bit of cinammon every few days..

Personally I do supplements like D3, C/E, Fish Oil, Benfotiamine/B6/B12, R-ALA - but half of these are because they lessen peripheral neuropathy effects.

Liz - I'm sorry I confused your brother's symptoms with someone else, but I thought I recalled there was some problem with his legs so I looked up your previous emails and learned it was cellulitis, venous stasis and heart failure that was a concern for him when we were corresponding. Terribly sad reading your descriptions back then and your distress about his health back then. He was fortunate to have your help.

Best regards,
Jackie

Afhound.... about harming one's self with supplements:

Of course that can happen but it's not often likely. I'm working on a report on that very topic that will be of interest to all who rely on nutritional support supplements. Stay tuned.

Additionally, when functional testing reveals metabolic deficiencies that have the potential to set us up for the onset of some impairment down the road, nutritional support as prevention not only works, but makes sense and is essential. What doesn't make sense is to take some generic, cheap multi-vitamin that uses the wrong forms of nutrients that are useless to the body.

As the trend for poor quality food choices continues to be the norm, nutritional supplementation will become essential for healthy aging and longevity. Those who think optimal nutrition is irrelevant will suffer eventually consequences.

Fortunately for readers here looking for help with Afib support, they have a most valuable research resource as we have discussed the topic extensively over many years.

Be well,
Jackie

The supplement question---to judge from all of these posts---is obviously extremely thorny. As someone who has gone through then usual gamut of potent pharmaceuticals, ablation(s) blah blah blah and continues to exercise (I'm in my early 60's) my take is simply this: it depends on the supplements.
I currently take sotalol, 80mg 2x/day, and have found over the past year that magnesium supplementation at 200mgs 1x per day has made a remarkable difference in the frequency and duration of my episodes. And in fact, when I am having an episode, I guzzle down a swallow of liquid mag---it tastes totally gross- and within minutes the episode subsides.

So my take away is watch what you're taking (in fact, stop taking all of your supps for about 10 days and then add back in to see if that makes a difference) but hit the magnesium...it works.

(And of course, as we know, not everything that's herbal or natural is good for us---esp the "us" that is wrestling with AF. For instance, some people may be taking niacin for its supposedly positive lipid effects, yet it also makes for a rapid heartbeat; same for feverfew)...

kit

According to Steven Hao, his ablation successes do not change their diets or take specific supplements and do just fine.

______________
Lone paroxysmal vagal atrial fibrillation. Age 62, female, no risk factors. Autonomic instability since severe Paxil withdrawal in 2004, including extreme sensitivity to neuro-active drugs, supplements, foods. Monthly tachycardia started 1/11, happened only at night, during sleep, or when waking, bouts of 5-15 hours. Changed to afib about a year ago, same pattern. Frequency increased over last 6 months, apparently with sensitivity to more triggers. Ablation 6/27/13 by Steven Hao.