Does anyone ever experience flutters/pac's/pvc's, abc's, eieio's etc. while urinating? I noticed a marked increase in these of late. Especially if I'm in a hurry to go. I take 150 mg of Norpace (CR) once daily. I know that one of the side effects of Norpace can be increased urination. A penny for your thoughts.


blessings,
MLM

Marshall,

I believe Norpace actually causes urine retention. Kind of like an enlarged prostate. So you may not be peeing more - just more often.

I get PACs when I get up at night to pee - but I always figured it was a positional thing. It usually happens when I lay back down.

BillB
48;A;2000

Marshall - I love your abc's and eieio's !!! It's heartening that so many here still maintain a great sense of humor.

Lorraine

Lorraine - If one can't have some humor, then we have to give up.

A laugh a day keeps the afib away... or the cardiologist a way....

I, too, love the humor. Good job, Marshall!

Jackie

Marshal,

Hans has done a lot of research on this and most likely your notice of ectopic beats during urination is due to the fact that hyperactivity of bladder is common when one is having an imbalance of the Nervous system, which may lead to an episode.... when you are in a "hurry to go", perhaps this is activating that adrenergic state....

Perhaps you are just noticing this now, because you are in this state..... and more aware of youself now. Don't know...

Joe

See below and the the following link:
[www.afibbers.org]


The rhythm of the heart is controlled through a fine balance of input from the parasympathetic (vagal nerve) and sympathetic nervous system. Thus events, which disturb either of these systems, may trigger LAF. Dr. Philippe Coumel, MD, a French cardiologist, has done extensive work on the link between the nervous system and LAF. He has identified a vagal form of LAF which is most common among men aged 40 to 50, occurs during the night, at rest, after eating or following intake of alcohol. This type of LAF may be triggered by sudden stimulation of the vagal nerve through, for example, vomiting or violent sneezing. Dr. Coumel also describes an adrenergic (adrenal hormone linked) form of LAF which occurs exclusively during daytime and which is often preceded by exercise or emotional stress. Frequent urination is a common feature of this type of LAF(3,13).

Joe,

Coumel also points out that the vagal form of AF very rarely, if ever, becomes chronic.

Mike F.

Does anyone know how Dr. Coumel's work applies to women?
Peggy

Mike,

True enough. I am suspecting that almost all people have a mixed form, with varying tendencies to one side of the dichotomy or the other. I have found myself to fall into the 90% Vagal and 10 % adrenergic category. This based on the number of episodes I have had and my attempt to classify them...... I have read others on this board who seem to fall into this classification. But one form certainly does seem to predominate over the other.

Joe

Thanks to all for the kind comments. I am very blessed to have found this website, and the wonderful people residing here. I am a nut!! and like to cut up a little from time to time. The bible says..."a merry heart doeth good like a medicine" and I believe that.
I think that I would tend to agree with Joe. I have tend to lean both ways meself. I truly think for me, it's a stress/nerves trigger. I wish I could try a dose of say Ativan or something like that when I feel a spell coming on. I think I've worried so much about my heart beat that I dwell on it! That cannot be helpful. :-))
I get worried and the EIEIO's pick up, but on the other side of the coin...I can eat a large evening meal, be ever-so relaxed, and take the wild train ride to PAC land.


blessings,
MLM

Joe,

Point taken. I tend to categorize myself as vagal for the following reasons:
1. Attacks occur in early am self-converting after 3-4 hrs;
2. My resting HR as I sit here and type is 52 (and goes as low as high 30s whilst asleep (Holter - no meds);
3. I am a man in his 40s - quite aerobically fit - HR drops quickly (and smoothly and gradually) after extended physical exertion;
4. I've observed that my HR plummets after very short burst of physical exertion elevates it........ kinda goes along at say 60, then a few secs of exertion raises it to 100, then in a couple of secs it really falls to about 50-60 for a few beats before recovering to 70-75 and falling slowly for a few seconds back to 60.... sound like vagal 'over-compensation'??

Kind regards,

Mike F.

Mike,
Certainly fits all the criteria I know of. According to Dr.Tchou. Awakening from sleep in afib is the definitive sign of a vagal episode. There are other signs of a vagal episode.

According to Hans' research: "Vagal type LAF is associated with an overactive parasympathetic (vagal) nervous system and is often observed in athletes and people with digestive problems. It is most common among men aged 40 to 50 years. The commonest feature is that of weekly episodes, lasting from a few minutes to several hours. The essential feature is the occurrence of attacks at night, often ending in the morning. Rest, digestive periods (particularly after dinner), and alcohol consumption are also predisposing factors. Exercise or emotional stress does not trigger the arrhythmia. On the contrary, on feeling the sensation of an oncoming episode (repeated atrial premature beats), many patients have observed that they can prevent an attack by exercising, but the relaxation period that follows an effort or an emotional stress frequently coincides with the onset of vagal LAF. There is no indication that vagal LAF involves any heart abnormality and vagal LAF rarely if ever develops into a permanent condition."

Just wondering, if your episodes usually occur at night, at are a result of the forces of the parasympathetic nervous system slowing your heart rate down, would an adrenergic stimulate counteract it? Have you found that drinking a dose of expresso or cup of strong coffee or perhaps some milder stimulate (Of course many have said this causes their episodes, but they may fall into the other side of the dichotomoy), , effects the frequency of your episodes during the night? However, it might just keep you up all night! Perhaps some adrenergic stimulate type herb, like capsicum, ginko, ginger, etc....

Joe

Joe,

Thanks for the further input and suggestions. I also have (surprise surprise) digestive problems - namely GERD, gastritis etc. I have just started cimetidine for this: cimetidine is an antihistamine and as such has an anticholinergic effect which can only help in preventing my parasympathetic nervous system from running a little too strong. (I also just bought some ginger tea. Funny you mention capsicum - another AFr here recently posted that a drink containing capsicum converts her VMAF episodes.)

Cheers,

Mike F.

The capsicum tincture turns out to be a drink? Like a tea, maybe? Or what? Can somebody clarify this, please?
Peggy