Ablation cost if I pay for it myself?

If insurance denies my claim for an ablation what will it cost me to pay for the procedure out of my own pocket?

Cost for self pay ablation with Dr Natale in Austin is approx $40,000 which includes pick up and delivery to Austin airport and 5 night hotel cost near St David's Zmed Crnter which is also very near University of Texas campus and not far at all from downtown Austin and the riverfront area.

Shannon

Am I glad I live in France. If I need an ablation (hopefully not) there is a very highly regarded
clinic 45 minutes from where I live - and it would be paid for 100% by the French Health Service.
I simply don't understand why you Americans don't support the idea of a national health ser8vice
like in the UK or here in France.
Gay

There should be a national health service, preferably more like France than Britain where the NHS is a disgrace.
Articles like this in the NY Times today make me sick - sort of thing you see in the Third World.

[www.nytimes.com]

My ablation at Mass General, paid by Medicare and BC/BS Medex, added up to about $75K but as often is the case it's hard to see exactly what was really paid.

That article is because Obamacare was passed, millions are losing their health insurance and others health insurance is increasing to very high rates. Most don't want a National Health care, we don't want the gov. to tell us which doctor or hospital we can go to, we don't want a gov. board that tells the doctor what his patient should have, be careful what you wish for.

Liz

In New Zealand we have both NHS and health insurance. If you have health insurance you can choose your Doctor or hospital.

Gay there are good and bad examples of medical insurance systems all over the world, Switzerland has a superb model, UK not so good and Canada works well is you have a true emergency but is challenging for more 'elective' procedures and can take a long time to get it done.

The current US system before the Affordable Care Act has been a train wreck heading into a dark tunnel for some time. It is unsustainable and the idea of relegating 40 million patients to using the local ER as their family General practitioner doctors is insane and has been a major reason for the unsustainable increase in health care cost.

Much of the recent increases in insurance rates for some people ( mostly those in states with little private insurance competition) is due to insurance companies phasing out policies that don't meet minimum standards of coverage comparable to new policies mandated by Obamacare and thus some people who have skated by on marginal policies are being forced to upgrade toward better quality coverage when their private insurors began canceling borderline insufficient policies.

These are the kind of inevitable disruptions that occur whenever any sweeping new social policy is being instituted. Governments don't have a good track record for smooth and efficient transitions with such large scale societal changes and neither does private industry either. And while for sure some significant changes will need to be made over time with the affordable care act, as well as within the private insurance industry and billing practices by hospitals across the US to start making a real dent in this unsustainable train wreck on the way toward happening.

At least something is being done, incomplete and in need of revision as it may be. But sticking our collective heads in the sand by ignoring reality and sticking with the current status quo simply because it feels more comfortable for those of us that have it good for the time being is also a prescription for certain disaster. The problem is that real systemic change is hard and some groups of people will be hit harder than others during the process. Typically, though, the major inequities in the sytem will get addressed both systemically and legislatively overtime once the major change toward more universal coverage is in full swing, but it might take 10 to 15 years or a bit more to get this all sorted out and on a smoother footing in the US.

In the meantime, expect a lot of bitching and moaning by a multitude of interests along the way and some of the complaints will be very justified in the immediate term, but in the longer view, hopefully we as a society can do the hard things necessary to make this a better system/.

First and foremost is emphasizing true preventative care. the reality is neither the solutions currently being offered by either the Tea party ... which is no solutions at all from everything I can see ... and Obamacare as well, neither side is really addressing the major elephant in the room and the haggle over which groups will have to get stuck with the larger bill that is what most of the debate is over, is still missing that point that a disease-based model of medicine is looking down the wrong end of the gun barrel from the word go! Until that is recognized and starts to be addressed from child care in the home and in elementary schools onward teaching people how to eat right and care for themselves in an effective manner not centered only around the latest drug or procedure, then we are mostly just pissing in the wind regardless of which sides rhetoric seems most on top at the moment.


Shannon



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2013 02:18PM by Shannon.

Colindo:

That is what was told to us, "If you like your insurance and doctor, you can keep it", which is a lie as millions are getting kicked off their insurances.

liz

President Obama was on the tube yesterday apologizing for Obamacare and admitting he really screwed it up. Ablation in Ontario, Canada is exactly ZERO for residents.

Murray L

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tikosyn uptake Dec 2011 500ug b.i.d. NSR since!
Herein lies opinion, not professional advice, which all are well advised to seek.

Your least expensive option for the highest quality care it to go to the team in Bordeaux France. You can probably search here for recent costs, but the last cost I recall reading were in the $20-25 thousand US range. Ron's post here: <[www.afibbers.org] has some costs in it for Bordeaux.

A number of years ago some people here went as medical tourists to India, with a $4-5 thousand US range, as I recall. In my opinion, this would only be a good choice for an uncomplicated ablation.

George



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2013 07:14PM by GeorgeN.

Murray:

As I have read your posts over the last months your doctor keeps telling you that you can't have an ablation until the size of your L atrium is at a certain dimension, now that may or may not be so.

Shannon:

That is exactly right, millions are being kicked out of their insurances because of all the bells and whistles that is being mandated by the ACA, which the president had to have known would happen, anyway, why should I have insurance for maternity care, drugs and alcohol abuse, abortions etc. that is what is making the insurance that is offered by the exchanges so expensive, if you think that is upgrading to better quality, that astounds me. This ACA bill is the train wreck, we did have the best healthcare system in the world, many came to this country for treatment. We do need changes, no argument there, but not government mandated health care, we have always been a free market country, gov. has not allowed the free market to work in the healthcare field, too many regulations, we can do a lot better than what is being crammed down our throats by this gov.

Funny, but you and many others have gotten help from this "diseased based model of medicine". There are a lot of ignorant people that can't or won't eat right, sounds like you want the gov. to intercede, you give too much power to the gov. In a free society we will always have problems, only in a society that is controlled by the gov. will you get all that you are speaking of, no thanks.

Liz

.

A lot of people are having trouble factoring in exorbitant deductibles as a cost of their health insurance vs the ACA coverage. If you have to pay a $12,000 deductible first, you're paying $1,000 per month to get anything -- on top of your monthly payments.

It's probably not millions losing substandard coverage, it's more like thousands. Still, it's not what they want as consumers, so they're complaining loudly.

______________
Lone paroxysmal vagal atrial fibrillation. Age 62, female, no risk factors. Autonomic instability since severe Paxil withdrawal in 2004, including extreme sensitivity to neuro-active drugs, supplements, foods. Monthly tachycardia started 1/11, happened only at night, during sleep, or when waking, bouts of 5-15 hours. Changed to afib about a year ago, same pattern. Frequency increased over last 6 months, apparently with sensitivity to more triggers. Ablation 6/27/13 by Steven Hao.

Hi Liz,

It doesn't appear you got my drift from my reply above. In no way did I imply or suggest that learning how to eat properly and take care of oneself was the role of government, beyond perhaps encouraging, to some small degree, that folks take more personal responsibility for educating themselves and their families about making better choices in their life styles, diet how better to maintain their health and perhaps making learning some of those tools easier and starting much earlier in life. But for sure there are real limits on how far government can or should dictate that education effort. It has to start in the home and in early school education and should be driven by private organizations as well as perhaps some government sponsored public service education efforts.

Nor did I suggest, in any way shape or form, that allopathic medicine was worthless, it has many invaluable benefits that I, and most everyone else here have benefited from! Most often in cases of accidents as well as chronic and acute diseases where the horse has clearly left the barn already. However, matching disease names to CPT diagnostic codes as a prime focus of daily practice, while perhaps necessary in a modern complex health care system, without casting a wider net and being more inclusive in our options (teaching good eating habits etc) for recovery of and maintaining good health, is shortsighted in my view and and results in not so effective a system as it could be.

The truth is, that in the role of true preventive medicine, regular 'standard of care' allopathic medicine has a less than stellar track record and yet it is improvements in this particular area that is most lacking and that would have the biggest positive impact on improving the overall health of the nation and lowering the crazy out of control costs of our over the top health care system. The impact of greater focus on true preventive medicine by parents, schools and doctors alike would go FAR beyond arguing over Obamacare or the total hands off approach in terms of moving us toward better overall health at far less cost.

Both I, and a whole army of statistics, would take exception to the idea that, as a nation, we did/do have the overall best health delivery system in the world, and certainly not in the last decade or two. We've had the easiest access to high quality and expensive, on demand, health care for those with the most means without question, and certainly we have some of the very best and most creative healthcare professionals, surgeons, ablationists, researchers etc in the world, no question. All though, ironically, the majority of the top ten to twenty ablationist world wide on my list are foreign nationals, even if some of those are practicing in the US.

And yet, this over abundance of all the things that should make the US the healthiest population in the world, bar none, only underscores the irony that in reality the US ranks any where from around 15th to around 27th or so in the world across most metrics used to evaluate overall health quality of a nation's citizens. And this, in spite of being at least double more costly than the next most expensive modern nation out there and, as such, a truly the most over the top, cost-wise, health care system of any nation on earth!

Thus, in my book, to assume that our current and recent system represents a hunky dory and sustainable one, if only everyone would just get out the way and allow it all to run amok as it has been in the last decade or two, sounds more like myopic wishful thinking to me.

My point is that real reform is very unlikely to spring solely from either a governmental or insurance industry initiative, and in my view neither of the two major political parties (nor the various fringe extremist factions on either side of the fence) seems to have any shortage of complicity in helping this situation to descend to the embarassing state of affairs it has become over the years.

Nevertheless Liz, this is clearly not the appropriate forum for debating the various issues, nor the political over-tones, around the workings ... or lack thereof ... of the US health care system when there are more than enough places on the web for that dialogue to overflow, and precious few where we can all share our experiences and insights around dealing with this vexing disease without getting side tracked by one side of the polarized political belief systems or the other.

Shannon



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2013 08:48AM by Shannon.

But NZ is a small country and can't be compared

"At least something is being done, incomplete and in need of revision as it may be."

The "something being done" is a disaster

"Ablation in Ontario, Canada is exactly ZERO for residents"


OK, so how good are their EPs??

"A number of years ago some people here went as medical tourists to India, with a $4-5 thousand US range, as I recall. In my opinion, this would only be a good choice for an uncomplicated ablation"

Right, I would go to India for an ablation!

Hopefully, websites like this one, which give us the opportunity to be our own health care advocates, will become more and more used and people will begin taking more responsibility for their health. If there is an upside to the turmoil in the medical community caused by Obamacare, it may be (long term, that is) that fewer people will go into traditional medicine (find a problem and drug it!) and more into holistic, preventive care and the study of supplements to balance each individuals chemistry, and possibly slow down the continuing "discovery" of new illnesses for which a new, profit-making, drug can be developed.

The heart disease study posted by Gary yesterday is an opportunity for us to voice our individual responses to drugs, supplements, ablation, etc. and help educate the cardiology community, while getting the benefit of monitoring ourselves.

If only there was a Hans for every medical condition, who took the time and sacrifice he has to educate people and allow them to share their experiences! We are fortunate.

Louise

Liz,

For your information. Nobody in the Canadian health care system tells you which doctor you can or cannot go to. Your chosen physician is "the boss" when it comes to making decisions regarding your health care. There is no "government health board" which decides which treatments you can or cannot get - that is solely up to your doctor. I should think that that is probably preferable to having decisions re. your health care made by some anonymous insurance clerk in a faraway city who does not know you from Adam.

Hans

Louise,

Actually, it is often the other way around. The drug is developed first and then a disease is created that this new drug can "treat".

Hans

afhound,

The EP's at Southlake Hospital in Ontario (Drs. Verma and Khaykin) have success rates that compare well to the best in the US (Dr. Natale excepted).

Hans

Hans:

That may well be in the Canadian system, we already have that here, for instance, medicare advantage has certain doctors in plan, you have to pick one inside that network, if you go outside the network, you have to pay out of pocket. I don't have medicare advantage as I wanted to choose my doctor. HMOs are the same you have to go to the doctor inside their system. This Affordable health care bill does depend on whether ones doctor is in the network of the plan you choose, however, the problem is that millions, and yes it is millions not thousands, are being kicked off their insurances because of all the stuff that this bill has deemed necessary to be included in your insurance which is causing the plan to be a lot more expensive and un-necessary, also as Latrogenia stated, the deductible is higher. In New York a lot of elderly are being kicked off their Medicare Advantage along with their doctors, they will no doubt have to pay more for their insurance and may not be able to have the doctor of their choice as doctors do not want to take new medicare patients.. Many doctors are leaving their practices, some are going into a private practice whereby patients pay a certain sum annually or some have a monthly premium, bypassing insurance, of course that is just for what the doctor can do in the office.

Hans, I would imagine your system is similar in that a lot of paperwork is necessary for the doctor to get payment from either the insurance company or the government (medicare, medicade) there are codes that have to be filled out so that the payer will pay for the service the doctor has provided, the gov. will only pay what they deem is appropriate, it is not as simple as you state.

A lot of these government single payer systems are breaking down, look at what is happening in Argentina, the system is collapsing. Government is never efficient, we can do a lot better in this country, hopefully we will.

Liz

Hi Hans and afhound,

For those Canadians not able to come to US or Bordeaux, I know Dr Natale thinks very highly of Dr Verma and recommends him.

Shannon

Liz,

The Canadian system is a single-payer system. That is, the relevant provincial healthcare plan pays all the bills for whatever the doctor ordered - no questions asked. Of course there is paperwork involved, but I am sure not as much as in the rather intricate and very expensive (twice the per capita cost compared to Canada) healthcare system in the US. And also - for your information - Canada is not Argentina!

Hans

Call me old fashion but I still believe in FREEDOM, when the government takes over anything you lose another piece of your freedom. People in canada and france can say that it costs nothing for their ablation, come on, maybe for the procedure you don't pay but how about your very high income tax rate as well as your huge value added tax....nothing is free including your ablation or your health care !!

My sister and her husband live in Massachussetts and when Romneycare started their they lost their coverage as it was deemed not up to par so they were FORCED to get rid of their $400.00 a month catastrophic plan, (which that is what they wanted), to get the state plan which cost them $950.00 a month and later saw that increase to $1350.00 a month. Recently they went to a cheaper plan and of course they couldn't keep their doctors so the new practice told them that it would be 18 months to get them in for a physical....now that's great....what an improvement !!!! There are other ways to reduce the cost of healthcare, how about addressing tort reform...no that wasn't addressed because the current administration's major donors are the trial lawyers so of course that wasn't included. I do software consulting and have been working around Washington DC for the last 10 years and there is no such thing as effecient when it comes to government so why would I believe that this will be effecient...it wont.

Hans:

Under the Canadian constitution, health care falls largely under the authority of the provinces. Only provincial governments have the power to pass laws governing the financing and delivery of health services to the majority of Canadians. This, in turn, has had important implications for the Canadian health care system. Instead of developing a national system that is centrally administered and uniform across the country, Canada has essentially developed several provincial health care systems which differ significantly in structure and operation. In sum, one cannot speak of Canadian health care as a “single system,” but as a “patchwork” of provincial regimes.

65% of the population of the U.S. including me, does not want a single payer system, this ACA bill is too intrusive in our lives, I won't go into details as I realize this is not the forum for such discussions, I am glad you are happy with your system.

Liz

Liz

I live in Vancouver, Canada. I'll give you a little break down on my own personal experiences with the Canadian medical system. If I have any concerns whatsoever I set up an appointment with my family doctor. The Dr. I choose as my family Physician is of my choice. My previous Dr. retired four years ago, and I am now on Dr. number three, trying to replace him. And I might add I am very happy with the Dr. I have now. If your family Dr. feels you need to see a specialist for a particular medical problem, he or she will suggest one. If you would like to see someone else, that's your personal choice. Iv'e changed cardiologists three times, by choice.
I was originally diagnosed with afib in 1992. Since then I have had hundreds of blood tests, as well as xrays, ct scans, mri's, echo cardiograms, stress tests, mibi's etc etc. I also had a pacemaker implanted in 1996 in hopes it would help my afib. For the next ten years I went to my yearly pacemaker clinic for follow up. I had the pacemaker removed in 2006. I had an ablation done in April of 2011 at St. Paul's hospital Vancouver.
Other medical procedures Iv'e had done over the last few years include, A turp which is a resectioning of the prostate gland with a couple of days hospital stay, Colonoscopy, gastroscopy, numerous emergency room visits, monthly INR blood test.
I don't have private health care coverage or insurance. Our medical services plan payed for every penny. The down side is a huge portion of our provincial budget pays for our medical services, and it's only going to grow. Our medical system is far from perfect and needs a major tuneup, but I'll take it over most other medical systems in the world.

Lou

Lou:

As of right now I can and have been able to choose my doctor, that could change with this ACA, I have medicare, which pays 80% of any medical procedures, I have a medigap ins. policy which picks up 20%, I also have a policy for prescription drugs. My insurance pays for doctor visits, and any hospital bills, if needed, my drug coverage kicks in about 8months, (I don't have very much drug expense). I pay around 270./month and I am happy with the insurances.

The problem with trying to implement this healthcare bill for all people is that "we are broke", the U.S. is borrowing money and is about 17 trillion dollars in debt. The entitlement programs are vast--also, the U.S. has a population (in 2011) of 313 million versus Canadas population of 34 million just cannot be comparable. We have about half of the population on gov. assistance, who is going to pay for everything, we have a lot of problems that are related to our economics.

Thank you for your post, I think I am finished now
Liz

Health care should not be a for profit business. If you have no insurance like me and if you need to get well you can buy three months of bentonite for about 10 dollars and some quality probiotics for about 70 dollars. This worked for me and is a lot less than 40k.