My mom (82) left me an article from the Martinsville (Indiana) Reporter on Zithromax being blamed for Heart problems and in particular Heart Rhythm changes. Coming from Vanderbilt Univ research..............In Sept of 2005 I took 10 days of Levaquin, 2 months later my first afib episode......7 ytears and 9 electrocardioversions later here I still am................I will always blam Levaquin!

Tom Poppino

Hi Tom, and thanks -

Is antibiotic Levaquin similar to but more "potent" than Zithromax? It might be interesting and productive to ask google some questions such as Levaquin "membrane potential" and see what comes up.

Erling

Erling I will do that, Levaquin is what is called a Quinonalone (spelling) antibiotic and it really screwed me up, also causes tendon rupture, I have two customers that had tendon rupture from Levaquin, one a bicep the other an achilles

T

Tom - I know a woman who had achilles' tendon rupture with Cipro.

Jackie

Have had zithromax prescribed several times for bronchitis, never any harmful result that i could detect.

PeggyM

Jackie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom - I know a woman who had achilles' tendon
> rupture with Cipro.
>
> Jackie

Same here. My friend partially ruptured his Achilles' tendon as well while taking Cipro.

With all sympathy for those who have come to harm, i can only reiterate that i have taken these antibiotics repeatedly over the years without any harmful effect at all.
PeggyM

The tetracycline based antibiotics can cause arrhythmias also...I have had that problem with long term use. Cipro is known to have the side-effect of tendon ruptures, etc..but DANG,,, those drugs sure save lives! Cipro can kill bugs nothing else can. I'll put up with the ruptured leg parts or a heart arrhythmia any day to get rid of an infection.

Nano-size silver particle colloids (called "true" colloidal silver) are anti-pathogen everything, including spirochetes (Lyme) and viruses (such as HIV). Silver fell out of use when penicillin was invented (WW II era), but has made a comeback with recent high-tech development products such as "Nano-Silver" / "Utopia Silver" [www.nano-silver.com] and "MesoSilver" [www.purestcolloids.com]

Besides being fully "broad spectrum" which 'drug'-antibiotics are not, nano-particle "true" colloidal silver is completely non-toxic, and unlike antibiotics does not cause mutated resistant species.

*11-26-2010 Flu, Afib, Lyme Disease, "True" Colloidal Silver [www.afibbers.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2012 08:24PM by Erling.

You beat me to it, Erling. If I had an infection and rather than go the a/b route, I'd be guzzling the nano-silver.
In fact, I have two bottles on hand, just in case.

Jackie

Jackie/Erling- How do you use Nano Silver or Colloidal silver for infections? Thanks Dennis

Hi Dennis -

> "How do you use Nano Silver or Colloidal silver for infections?"

Silver nano-particles (AgNPs) as "true" colloidal silver (e.g. Utopia Silver and MesoSilver) is highly efficacious taken orally as there is no degradation by stomach / blood chemicals such as chloride. On the other hand, "Ionic" colloidal silver (Ag+) (e.g. Sovereign Silver) has very little efficacy taken orally because the Ag+ (silver ions) rapidly combine with Cl- (chloride ions) to form ineffective silver chloride (AgCl). But ionic colloidal silver is highly effective used topically, e.g. as nose drops / spray or on skin, or in a nebulizer for lung infection. Here is a graph showing in vitro performance of "true" colloidal silver (MesoSilver) vs. "ionic" colloidal silver (Sovereign Silver) against E-coli in a test medium with / without HCl replicating stomach acid: [silver-colloids.com]

Typical minimum dose of MesoSiver is one teaspoon per day. Quoting [www.purestcolloids.com] : "The dosage for Mesosilver is typically between one teaspoon (5mL) and one tablespoon (15mL) daily to help maintain health. One to four tablespoons taken 4 times per day may be taken to help fortify the immune system when needed. Actual dosage will vary based on individual needs. A 500 mL bottle will provide a one month supply when used at a dosage of one tablespoon per day".

True colloidal silver might seem costly at first blush, but comparing its efficacy with Rx A/Bs + cost + office visits it's a 'no brainer'. Recently a nasty cold (virus) resolved in 2 days at a cost of less than $15. By the way, I have no affiliation with any company except for being a fully convinced consumer --- by science and experience.

Erling



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 07:10PM by Erling.

A word of caution; if you have a serious infection, you'd be far better served to get an antibiotic which is known to kill or render the infecting bacteria non-propagating. Uncontrolled infections can spread quickly to critical organs and tissues, and they can cause blindness, deafness, deformity or death. As a group, antibiotics are by far the most important drug class ever developed, having saved the lives of many millions of humans and animals. Most are derived from natural origins, such as the penicillin or tetracycline groups. Often, the specific type of bacterial infection can be determined by lab tests, further defining which drug to use. Antibiotics have a very long and proven history of success, unlike many of the expensive other-use drugs marketed today, and that history includes what kinds of antibiotic works best for a particular type infection. If colloidal silver is a true antibiotic it should not be taken every day as an immune booster, as your gut bacteria would surely be at risk.

I have treated many animals as well as myself with antibiotics of both the tetracycline and penicillin groups and have saved many lives, including my own by doing so - with no long-term side effects. Without these proven antibiotics thousands of persons worldwide would die every day. There is no good reason to try alternatives to what currently is available, unless you can show a direct dose, cause-and-effect relationship for the many different kinds of bacteria that love to inhabit our bodies....and that kind of information is common for the mainstay antibiotics available to us already (most of which are also very affordable).

So why the push for this "alternative" stuff when simply changing to a different proven antibiotic will likely resolve any side-effect issues?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 08:24PM by Tom B.

Well said Tom trying to treat a serious infection with alternative medicine risking organ damage, blindness,deafness etc...and death is not good advice and there are no do overs here.

Let us not forget the importance of restoring gut flora after a course of antibiotics. Bear in mind though that the effectiveness of some antibiotics is reduced by simultaneous probiotic administration so in some cases it is best to wait with the probiotics until the antibiotics are out of the system.

[www.yourhealthbase.com]

[www.yourhealthbase.com]

Hans

Jewish Hospital & St. Mary's Healthcare [www.highlandsfamilymedicine.com]

Antibiotics & Viral Infections

Most bugs that infect your eyes, nose, throat, large airways and bowels are viruses, against which antibiotics are powerless. The New York Times ran an article on over-prescription in 2005:

"You've had a cold for five to seven days and thought you were getting better. Then it grew worse. More congestion, increasing fatigue and now headache or facial pain around your nose or eyes or upper teeth. You guessed it was a sinus infection.

Depending on the severity of the symptoms, the doctor's examination and inclinations about treatment, you may be prescribed an antibiotic.

But is this what you need to get better?

Chances are, it is not. Most cases of acute sinusitis are caused by viruses, not bacteria, and taking an antibiotic does nothing more than enrich the pharmaceutical companies and increase the chances of being infected with drug-resistant bacteria.

The average adult catches two or three colds a year, and 0.5 to 2 percent of them are complicated by bacterial infections. In other words, if antibiotics are prescribed for most sinusitis cases, they are most likely being way over-prescribed."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 09:21PM by Erling.

Erling,

I will look into the colloidal silver, sounds interesting.

I live in what could possibly be described as the flu capital of the world i.e.Hong Kong.
Hong Kong Flu epidemic early 60s, SARS (bird flu) 2003ish, Swine Flu a few years ago and I think I read that the Spanish Flu of 1919 which killed millions around the world all originated in Hong Kong or the surrounding areas just over the border in Mainland China.

It was only a few days ago that my wife commented that we had all got through the flu season yet again - now 4 years - without either of the children getting sick which they used to like virtually every body else in HK between December and April. The secret, Vitamin C, boring story but true.

Barry G.

Tom B,

Dismissing silver as "alternative stuff" shows ignorance of the information. Tom Poppino initiated the topic by presenting "Zithromax being blamed for Heart problems and in particular Heart Rhythm changes." Use of non-toxic silver as antibiotic was mainstream until the advent of Rx penicillin --- silver would still be mainstream if not for massive profiting from patented, toxic A/Bs.

For a proper discussion please study and understand the thorough information on silver at Flu, Afib, Lyme Disease, "True" Colloidal Silver [www.afibbers.org]

Erling.

My discovery of the benefits of and my experience with “colloidal silver” goes back about 20 years. At the time, there were only a few brands available at the local HF store and ordering via the Internet was not the convenience it is today. Having attended local health seminars, I learned about and read the history of the antimicrobial properties of silver. Back then, the fine distinctions between silver products and particle size was not in the mix of discussion. I always had some on hand and treated myself and my cats successfully.

Today, much more science is available; witness Erling’s expansive research project on silver particle size, suspension and efficacy as an antimicrobial.

The importance of understanding the merits of nano-particle silver is not only for the antibacterial, antifungal and antiparasitic properties, but it also anti-viral which makes it extremely important today with the threat of the new, resistant viral strains emerging in the world. Antibiotics don’t work on viral infections.

My personal history is that I have not had the flu for 12 seasons and no colds for 11 seasons.

I should add that I work to support my immune system and make sure my vitamin D levels remain consistently at the ‘optimal level’ of 70 ng/ml.

If you intend to use nanosilver, be sure you understand why it's important to choose MesoSilver. Read Erling's post.

Jackie

Erling Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom B,
>
> Dismissing silver as "alternative stuff" shows
> ignorance of the information. Tom Poppino
> initiated the topic by presenting "Zithromax being
> blamed for Heart problems and in particular
> Heart Rhythm changes." Use of non-toxic silver
> as antibiotic was mainstream until the
> advent of Rx penicillin --- silver would still
> be mainstream if not for massive profiting
> from patented, toxic A/Bs.
>
> For a proper discussion please study and
> understand the thorough information on silver at
> Flu, Afib, Lyme Disease, "True" Colloidal
> Silver
> [www.afibbers.org]
> 1935#msg-111935
>
> Erling.

Lol, Erling, you sure are getting testy these days! Please don't think I'm being dismissive of what is literally alternative medicine when viewed from the perspective of standardized medicines. You admit that it is not mainstream in your referenced post. My concern, as voiced in my earlier post, is that some persons will turn first to a medicine that is no longer heavily used because it was rendered pretty much obsolete by more effective products. The current antibiotics have been developed to a point where they are highly specific to various infections. And ignorance, my friend, is both a universal and relative thing, isn't it? Without it, we'd all be know-it-alls....a highly suspicious state of being, indeed ;-).

I also noted that if one antibiotic causes side-effects (which would include arrhythmia), others are usually available via a professional review of causation, to do the same effective job.

Your statement "silver would still
> be mainstream if not for massive profiting
> from patented, toxic A/Bs." is malarky,. That cynical perspective is used heavily in arguments regarding many medicines on this forum, and may actually be true in some cases. However, most antibiotics are now, and have been, inexpensive. You can buy huge amounts of amoxicillin (for example) for about twenty dollars. Yes, some of the newer derivatives are more expensive, but the broad-spectrum penicillins and tetracyclines are available world-wide to the poorest of humanity without much cost. It is even a concern that antibiotic research is somewhat limited because the drug producers don't make large profits in that sector.


Tom

Tom,

"The current antibiotics have been developed to a point where they are highly specific to various infections."

This would be really useful if doctors bothered ordering the test to determine the type of bacteria involved in the infection. Unfortunately most don't and you end up with a broad-spectrum one such as Cipro, that has a bunch of nasty side-effects.

Hans

Hans,

That seems to be a common theme; doctors taking the easy, quick path...I know the majority of my own adult health issues could have been avoided if the doctors I went to would have taken just a bit more time to think about what was going on. However, having been involved with a critical issue of infection, even with lab testing it can be difficult to isolate a bacteria type. Why? Because not all bacteria are easily discovered and identified - and the type of tissue that the bacteria infects may not be conducive to fluid migration for sampling. Cipro can deal with infections many other antibiotics cannot - perhaps it may be overused because it is so effective. I have used Cipro as a last resort, and it did the trick to finally end a chronic infection that had plagued me for years. It is important for the patient to be aware of potential side-effects and be alert for their presentation - doctors cannot do it all. This forum is evidence to that fact.

Tom

How does silver fare against fungal infections? Many recurrent, and severe sinus infections (among others) are fungal. Any studies out there?

lisa
__________________________

So much of medicine is looking solely down the wrong end of the gun barrel, and that is really a pity for all of us---Shannon

Lisa - Nasal spray delivey or topical applications of silver are very effective... fungus included. It's well known to work on Candida which can affect the body from the mouth/nasal cavity to the anus. It can take time and if the Candida overgrowth is extensive, the Herxheimer reaction or 'die off'' can be severe.

Jackie

Lisa, thanks for your question: "How does silver fare against fungal infections?" These quotes are relevant:
-- "There aren't any known microbes that can survive after silver is used!" (Dr. Henry Crooke, 1910).
-- "Prior to the discovery of penicillin there were over ninety US letters patents of silver compounds for medicinal purposes. ... Dr. Henry Crooke conducted 2,000 tests proving that silver solutions would kill almost all pathogens. Since ionic silver solutions could not be patented, the Food and Drug Administration was moved by the pharmaceutical companies not to approve its use by the American Medical Association.".

Our BB silver study 1 1/2 years ago [www.afibbers.org] is as complete as was possible at the time. Following the links should provide answers to almost any question. In the discussion that followed a question came up about replacing lost intestinal biota. Since then, if I recall correctly, Jackie has said that they are not destroyed by nano-silver. The only way I can understand that is nano-silver's very rapid uptake into the blood stream / disappearance from the GI tract. Lets hope Jackie will comment and explain.

Do appreciate your Shannon quote -- couldn't possibly agree more.

Erling.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2012 03:32PM by Erling.

At the time of researching the above 'silver study' eighteen months ago, the following were the only "true" nano-silver colloid products found. Only Source Naturals was available through iHerb. Comparing particle size / quantity and cost, MesoSilver seemed the "best buy", but by now that might have changed. All this may become irrelevant if "Codex Alimentarius" has its way in the US. Sale of colloidal silver is already banned in Europe. For "Codex" info see [en.wikipedia.org]

Kelly Colloidal Silver
MesoSilver
Vitol Super Colloidal Silver
Source Naturals - Wellness Colloidal Silver
Utopia Advanced Colloidal Silver

Tables comparing many brands and forms are at [www.silver-colloids.com]

Lisa - on the fungal question...

FEBS J. 2012 Apr;279(7):1327-38. doi: 10.1111/j.1742-4658.2012.08527.x. Epub 2012 Mar 12.
Silver nanoparticles induce apoptotic cell death in Candida albicans through the increase of hydroxyl radicals.
Hwang IS, Lee J, Hwang JH, Kim KJ, Lee DG.
Source
School of Life Sciences and Biotechnology, Kyungpook National University, Buk-gu, Daegu, Korea.
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

Erling - in my notes from the "silver" teleconference, the sparing of "good bowel bacteria" was discussed. There were four studies referenced that indicated with the nanoparticle, there is no detrimental effect on the friendly gut bacteria or the essential host microflora.

Sorry this response is late. The weather here is glorious and I'm spending lots of time in my garden and beds.

Jackie