QuoteMarco thank you G, I will look into this. I'm currently looking into into Dr Carolyn Dean and her work with Magnesium, she is supposed to be the expert on it out there. According to her work, not to be deficient in Mg, someone would need to to be at least at the top range of Mg rbc test. With mine came back at 4.9 (deficient according to her) and yours slightly above range, you seem toby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Hi alba, I believe you can order at least some labs on your own in the UK. You might be able to at least get serum magnesium & perhaps RBC (red blood cell) magnesium. If you try the transdermal mag, if you get more rather than less ectopics, I'd use this as an indication that you might be getting an excess serum build up (you probably already thought of this). Although a lotby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteCarey I'm not up on the transdermal magnesium literature, but I'm not so sure it's an effective way of acquiring magnesium. . This is the only study I've ever found on the topic. I also recall an anecdote where a fellow was able to replete his intracellular magnesium levels, as indicated by ExaTest, via transdermal magnesium chloride. As you note, with compromisedby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Quotealba I used to have an Epsom salts bath which is a very effective method of magnesium top up. Unfortunately, we moved house and now only have showers, so would have to consider a magnesium spray as an alternative. If you determine that transdermal magnesium is OK for your CKD, this post has links where you can make your own lotions with either magnesium sulphate (Epsom salt) or chloride.by GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteLaniB Does anyone up on transdermal magnesium? Would it be safer for people who have kidney issues? Also, what's better? MoMaggie? EASE spray or make your own by mixiing water with Ancient Minerals? I have used transdermal. I don't mostly because of the hassle. I make my own as a supersaturated solution of magnesium chloride & water, which feels "oily." I usby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteElizabeth George: You say you increased your Creatinine from 1,23 to 1.37 and that it increased your energy----my creatinine is usually always a little high, the last labs it was 1.23 and I am high, lab values are 0.60 to 0.88 mg/dl. Don't understand why you think being higher than lab values is a good thing. Hi Liz, that was a quote from ghg, who was the original poster. I was quoby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Link to links to epsom salt study My recommendation a friend with severe cramps. Link on how to create lotions & etc for transdermal use.by GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteLaniB George N, How did you get your RBC Mg up to 7? and how long did it take? I did not start measuring RBC until the last few years. I've been taking Mg for my afib since Nov 2004. I'd done an ExaTest in Sept 2004. On that I was out of range low and that was one of the things that started me on supplementing magnesium for afib. I also had eye fasciculations (eye lid twitcheby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteSueChef I've been using Ancient Minerals Magnesium Oil spray -- 6 squirts a day. Might Waller Water might be a better option...or just a different option? Which one would be the better deliver system, with the most consistent levels? I have to admit, I'm hesitant to try Waller Water because of the issues I had with ingesting the chelated magnesium glycinate tablets, evenby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Tim, I've found that if magnesium is the issue, topical application will ameliorate it. Also magnesium is the most likely culprit in my and my friends' experience. You can make a supersaturated solution of Epsom salts and water and put it on the the twitching areas and see what happens. If this helps, then increase your oral intake of mag. Here is one old post I did on the topiby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Stef, I've posted on this over the years, here is a search on my past posts: < I make my own "magnesium oil" very inexpensively by purchasing magnesium chloride as nigari flakes (20 kg at a time!) < and adding just enough water to make a supersaturated solution. It has an oily feeling, though there is no oil in it. Here is a link describing how to apply epsom saltby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Bill, There is a link in this post that talks about topical application of epsom salt < The same would apply to mag chloride. When I make mag oil from Niagri < I use just enough to dissolve the crystals. Which is maybe about a 1:1 measure. If you over do the water, it doesn't matter, it'll still work, just will be a bit more dilute. For example if I add too much water to tby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Lynn, Kroger & Dollar General brand MOM are only magnesium hydroxide & water (thanks ghg!). For others, here is the WallerWater PDF < Here is Erling's description of mag bicarb research: < I've never used this, just found the powder by Googling < The powder would be an inexpensive source of mag, in bulk. Mag hydroxide is 41.7% mag. So costing it out for anby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
I make my own from Mitoku Nigari. Add just enough water to dissolve whatever measure of crystals you put in a glass. I buy mine 20 kg at time (44 lbs) < Georgeby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
I've successfully helped a number of friends with cramps by suggesting oral and/or transdermal magnesium. Here is a search on transdermal mag posts: < Here is an n=1 story. My friend said when she went home at night and took off her shoes, her toes curled under from cramping. I suggested an immediate fix with a supersaturated solution (just enough water to dissolve the crystals) ofby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Ralph, Yes, I am suggesting that. I'll let Jackie weigh in on this as she most often makes this argument. If it works for you, then obviously, do it! At this point, I eat VLC most of the time, and potassium isn't an issue for me. My first afib episode 10 years ago, my serum K+ level was low (3.2 mmol/l, from memory). At that point, I thought potassium might be key. Years ofby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Rosie, Quantifying, beyond what is in the epsom salt study would be hard, with out a lot of data. Here is an n=1 story. My friend said when she went home at night and took off her shoes, her toes curled under from cramping. I suggested an immediate fix with a supersaturated solution (just enough water to dissolve the crystals) of mag sulfate (epsom salt) as described here < on her feet.by GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
There are links in my post in this thread to a transdermal epsom salt study. < I don't typically use transdermal, as it is much more of a hassle than oral, but I have and I have recommended to friends and it is effective. Also, there is a link to the autism group on using transdermal epsom salt. The sulfate is important for those people. I use the chloride orally and sometimes traby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Glycinate is one of the most bioavailable forms. Your limit is individual and may change over time. To get extra in your system, you can use the transdermal approach - i.e. put it on your skin. An inexpensive method is to make a cream with epsom salts see: < The simplest approach is to take a small amount of epsom salts (may be 1 TBSP) and add just enough water to dissolve the saltby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Peter, I have a friend that I wrote about in CR 73 < She gets closely spaced PAC's when exercising at her top-end, if she eats more than 60g/carbs a day. It sounds like your experience mirrors hers. As to the cramps, do you or have you tried supplementing with magnesium? That usually helps my friends with that issue. You can also put a concentrated Epsom Salt (magnesium sulfby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Liz, I'm fortunate as I can take mag anytime anywhere without the issues you describe. I take a lot, currently around 2.850 grams a day as: glycinate 800 mg dimagnesium malate 1320 mg chloride 430 mg bicarbonate 300 mg If I go over, I just get loose stools, no cramping. I usually vary the glycinate to be near bowel tolerance. However, I have many friends who have low Mg. Thby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Paul, I have used it, but not frequently. I've always taken oral mag in addition to whatever I used transdermally. I do make up a more dilute solution of MgCl2 (mag oil is much more concentrated MgCl2 solution) and take that orally. That solution is about 3.4 grams Mg/liter. As I take many forms of mag (totaling over 3 gr Mg/day), I vary the amount of the MgCl2 solution to keep my intby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Alex, I take a nigari solution orally. I make up two liters using 7 tablespoons of nigari. This is about 54 grams of the compound. The compound is about 12% Mg. So 2 liters of the solution would have about 6.5 grams Mg or 3.25 grams/liter. If I were to make it for transdermal use, I would make a supersaturated solution. These supersaturated MgCl2 solutions feel "oily" even thougby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Justine, No reason not to do both, in my opinion. The only reason I don't regularly do transdermal is the hassle factor. I orally ingest both WW concentrate and MgCl2 water (along with mag glycinate and dimagnesium malate). Georgeby georgen - AFIBBERS FORUM
"but in all cases, the residue or amounts that are excessive to enter at that given time, will be discarded by the body and that can result in loose stool or diarrhea" I disagree with this explanation with respect to IM or transdermal delivery. Any excess in these cases will be excreted through the urine. I see no way the mag, once in the blood, will go back into the colon. There are studiesby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Josiah, My understanding is that transdermal magnesium (or infusions) could cause bowel issues IF you are simultaneously taking oral magnesium. Otherwise, no. In other words an oral amount that did not cause bowel issues may cause them when combined with other sources of magnesium. Georgeby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Bill, See: <; In this link, they reference making your own topical sprays & lotions with epsom salts <; One could use mag chloride as well. I give a link for "nigari" in the first link. It is mag chloride the Japanese use to coagulate tofu. Several years ago, I had a lab test the Mitoku brand nigari for heavy metals on a mass spectrometer. It came out very clean. I&by GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
For Epsom Salts: Ways to use epsom salts transdermally <; Also Magneisum Chloride (aka Magnesium Oil) <; I use mag chloride, which I purchase as Nigari, for both oral and transdermal use. I had the Mitoku brand tested for heavy metals prior to using it. It tested very clean Georgeby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Gregg, The issue a shortened effective refractory period (ERP). For PAC's, obviously atrial ERP or AERP. This has been mentioned in the CR several times. See More background is here: < effective refractory period&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=ws> To your list, I'd add - tight blood sugar control. Ideally, your Hba1c levels should be less than or equal to 4.5%. Wiby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Peter, Here is a recent post from Jackie: <; and another thread: <; I took the data for Mikes MgCL2 & computed the % change (After-Before)/Before*100 C Mag BEFORE 31.4 AFTER 41.2 (range 33.9 - 1.9) 23.79% IC Ca BEFORE 7.5 AFTER 4.8 (range 3.2 - 5) -36.00% IC K BEFORE 132.2 AFTER 124.5 (range 80 - 240) -5.82% IC Phos BEFORE 22.2 AFTER 17.6 (range 14.2 - 17) -20.72% IC Na BEFORE 3.4 Aby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM