QuoteBrian_og An interesting way of looking at costs of noacs versus warfarin. Cheaper for the Healthcare system overall due to less strokes and less bleeding. 1. The study used different populations: "A note of caution about the results: although event rates for the warfarin comparator arm were identified among a “real-world” patient population, the event rates in the NOACby jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteCarey Even at the low end of therapeutic range, INR 2.1, I know I'll be clot free. I've tested this out a number of times. I wonder what the effects of monthly bills of >$500 for one overpriced medication are. That might add to risk of stroke. Um, no, you don't know that. You tested it? How would one go about "testing" it? And the NOACs are expensive but theby jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteJackie Long term warfarin use causes arterial and tissue calcifications so it is now recommended to use Vitamin K2 in the Menaquinone 7 form for that very reason but that adverse effect wasn't known for a number of years. Only if you subscribe to the myth not to eat foods with vitamin K. The jurys out on the long term consequences of NOAC's, but the original post isn'tby jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteJustMeToo So it appears that my stroke likely occurred from plaque that had formed in an artery somewhere. I'd had a cardiac cath procedure about a year and a half before my stroke and it did not show any blockage in my arteries....so the stroke was definitely an unexpected event for me. Did your doctor suggest that, or was the cause unknown?by jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
Quotemwcf Some seem to think that a TEE should always be done even if the patient is fully noac compliant. Also, how does one truly know if a patient HAS been NOAC compliant? Especially if they - as is truth told the case to some degree for most of us - are becoming a bit forgetful as they get older? I've a few times found myself not remembering at midday whether I've had my a.m. dosby jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
Quotesmackman I would love to talk with you by PM on the Eliquis you have and are not using. Your doctor has determined that the benefits justify the costs.by jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
Quotesmackman I will follow Dr. Natalie’s orders any day over a layman’s opinion. Have a nice day 😎 Let's hope soby jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteCarey I think you're confusing facts with opinion and theory. Very little is understood about the intricacies of how medications interact within the human body. Making absolute statements like that is absurd and meaningless. It's not theory or opinion. I understand that you personally prefer warfarin and that's fine. In my case I had no choice. My situation, however, waby jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
Quotesmackman Overall, neither blood thinner bothers me except easy to bleed. Taking only 2.5 mg of Eliquis 2X a day has helped out. . The lower dose, however, has substantial increased stroke risk. Not true for my situation. Dr. Natale is my EP and his professional opinion was 2.5 mg 2X a day of Eliquis. I am not in AFIB. It has to do with my P wave at the mitral valve. Make sureby jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteCarey What I said is the facts are that warfarin is an inferior drug when compared to the NOACs for most people. I think you're confusing facts with opinion and theory. Very little is understood about the intricacies of how medications interact within the human body. Making absolute statements like that is absurd and meaningless.by jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteCarey The anti-Eliquis campaign here needs to stop. It's false information. Hm, I didn't notice any false information, or any anti-Eliquis campaign. How long have you been taking Eliquis?by jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteCarey That's a 12-year old article written before finger stick testing existed. Doctors aren't switching to NOACs because it's more convenient for them. They're switching because the NOACs are equally or more effective, have far fewer side effects, far fewer interactions with other drugs, no interactions with food, don't require monitoring and dosage adjustmentby jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
Quotesmackman Overall, neither blood thinner bothers me except easy to bleed. Taking only 2.5 mg of Eliquis 2X a day has helped out. . The lower dose, however, has substantial increased stroke risk.by jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteCarey I read your UrL on Eliquis, that must be one of the most horrible drugs on the market and you have to pay big bucks for it. The list of side effects and drug/food interactions for warfarin dwarfs the list for Eliquis. Warfarin is derived from sweet clover. Although relatively safe, it causes problems for physicians who have to monitor INR for it to be safe. That's not soby jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteCarey Although warfarin can be reversed, that reversal isn't immediate. It takes about 24 hours for vitamin K to reverse the effects. Considering that the half-life of Eliquis is about 12 hours, simply stopping Eliquis will reduce anticoagulant effects just about as fast as vitamin K reduces warfarin's effects. There are numerous warnings against stopping Eliquis cold turkey.by jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
Quotesmackman What is the documentation about many have problems with Eliquis? I take Eliquis “for life” so fill me in with The Eliquis problems. You would think they would black box it if it has a big negative input on individuals. It hasn't been around long enough to document conclusive long term effects, although there are certainly a lot of associations that remain to be proven. Liby jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
Quotemwcf A violently abusive childhood definitely didn’t give me the best of starts! No, in fact it remaps the brain as you probably know.by jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteJackie jpeters - on the warfarin incident. I wasn't freaked out. Just irritated at the inconvenience because the cardiologist prescribing it initially, did not check my platelet count or warn me that dosing might be problematic. Actually, it turned out to be a good experience, because my research led me to the many benefits of nattokinase and by switching to that, I was protected anby jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteJackie The comment by jpeters about exercising reducing cortisol should be clarified…... as that’s not entirely correct. True. "Balanced" exercise might be clearer. Becoming an Adrenalin junkie isn't a great solution. And definitely leave the cellphone at home. Going to the gym twice a week won't compensate for sitting in front of computer all day except for triby jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
Like most people, I never had any problems with warfarin. Many have problems with Eliquis. I eat my regular diet, with plenty of leafy greens, and take MK-7 supplement. INR stablizes. I get INR test once a month. The MK-7 derived from Natto raises the INR, so I need only a minimal dose (2.5 mg). I think the glories of Eliquis are WAY over dramatized on this board. Jackie, you have to initiaby jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteCarey The only benefits I can think of for warfarin are that it's cheap, it's available almost everywhere, and it is superior for some things such as artificial valves. I take it because it's cheaper and works better.by jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteErin Outside of more frequent bloodwork and diet restrictions, what are the other downfalls of warfarin? As opposed tio the new drugs, isn't it safer to be able to control the blood levels with regular testing? How do you know what your blood is doing with Eliquis or xarelto? It seems I would have more control over bleeding problems with warfarin. My risk of falling and injury is highby jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteJackie Today, our world is even more stressful, so being aware of adrenal issues is obviously of critical importance to overall health. Jackie Exercise is the most important thing you can do for your body. Cortisol is highest in the morning, and comes right down once you get moving. Taking more supplements isn't always the answer.by jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteCarey . Warfarin eating away at the arteries is particularly the thing I wanted to hear about. I don't believe that's true. "How much warfarin will kill a rat? Mice and rats like the taste of the bait, while the warfarin prevents their blood from clotting which will kill the rodents within a few days because of bleeding into their brain. The safety of warfarin was not deterby jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteJackie Hi Mike - your intuition is correct.. .it's the elevated cortisol levels... lots of reports and studies linking increased stress levels and/or constant stress over time... to heart related deaths including stroke. Just one out of many: Jackie “These studies reinforce the message that stress is bad for the heart, but we don’t really know if we can reduce stress hormone lby jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
Quotemwcf I haven't read up on it (and I'm not going to!) but I wouldn't be surprised if generalised anxiety disorder and/or acute anxiety alone doubles one's stroke risk! "Study participants who suffered the most anxiety had a 33 percent higher risk for stroke compared to those with the lowest anxiety levels, the researchers found." Determining a causalby jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
Quotemwcf. Now I read that even 5 mins of AF can up one's stroke risk by 5 times. I'm not sure about the extent this applies to younger 'lone' AFrs with no other co-morbitiies, but it's still enough to make one stop and think. The five times stroke risk I quoted above as an example was right off the Eliquis (ie, marketing) website. AC's don't dissolve clots, yby jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteCarey Similar analogies abound. The odds of you being in a car crash is the same for every mile you drive, but driving 100 miles obviously puts you at greater risk of an accident than driving one mile. That's exactly the same math at work. Good drivers acquire experience, so can actually lower their risk. When experience won't help, say playing a slot machine, a lot of datby jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteBrian_og Does anyone know anyone that recommends just stopping AC after a successful Ablation? Depending on how we define successful also I guess. That's the point, but only after the blanking period and only if all arrhythmia is gone.by jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteJoe The risks of not taking an anticoagulant for stroke prevention as a result of short periods of AF can be mitigated by diet (including natural anticoagulants) and life style. That makes sense to me. Eliquis has its own risks, besides being expensive.by jpeters - AFIBBERS FORUM