As George mentioned, I had ablation in Bordeaux in early January 2003 after many years of paroxysmal AF and 18 months of long-term persistent AF with rapid ventricular response. AF recurred two days later so they did an immediate touch up. Prof. Haïssaguerre thought there might be a gap in one of the lines but this was not the case. He found a very toxic focus in the coronary sinus which heby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
Patrick The most important thing, as most people here will tell you, is to choose your EP very carefully. Ablation is one of the most difficult procedures and many EPs aren’t very good at it but are keen to improve their skills. Beware of them! You need someone who has done thousands of ablations and who does many every week. There are also a few EPs who have 'the gift' in theiby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
Barry I think Warfarin is very tricky. My Jan 2003 ablation should have happened in November 2002 but a TOE/TEE in the morning found a clot and I was turfed out of the hospital with supplies of calcyparin and instructions on what to do. I had been on Warfarin for over a year. In the weeks leading up to the TOE I was totally focused on getting to Bordeaux. I used to insist on weekly bloodby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
Hi Barry I’m not in Manchester but in London, having lived for many years in various countries - Russia, South Africa, Australia and Ukraine among them. Been to Hong Kong many times but never lived there. You were right about the scuba diving but sadly, two years ago at age 79, I did my final dive in Mexico. Once in the water diving is effortless but getting to remote places in the worldby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
In answer to Whitehaven's question, here is my story, familiar to those who have been reading the forum for a long time, but maybe encouraging for newer readers. I had my first ablation in Bordeaux in January 2003 after many years of paroxysmal afib and 18 months of long term persistent afib. I was not a simple case - in those far off days very few EPs would have even attempted my ablatioby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
Hi George I spent many many months researching ablations in those far off days, reading articles in scientific journals (of which I understood very little at that time) and asking any EP that I saw if s/he would have it done. They all said absolutely not, it was experimental and dangerous, the results were one third better, one third stayed the same, one third were worse. In UK only a coupby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
Since my ablations in Bordeaux in 2003 I have been in sinus rhythm but plagued by many ectopics, up to 8000 on a 24 hour Holter. Although they were very uncomfortable, like being kicked in the chest every few seconds, the EPs said they were a nuisance but not a problem. I started to take lots of magnesium, then added taurine, and finally potassium. I thought they had stopped, however anotherby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
Another person who travelled with paroxysmal AF. I flew all round the world as a scuba diver, remote places like Papua New Guinea, Vanuatu, Palau, Yap etc. I didn’t take any medication, just used to sit out the dives when I had AF and jump right back in the water when it stopped. When the AF became long term persistent of course I stopped diving, but 3 months after ablation in Bordeaux I wasby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
Ablation Jaunuary 2003 in Bordeaux by Professor Michel Haïssaguerre, assisted by Dr (now Prof) Jaïs, after over 40 years of paroxysmal AF and 18 months of persistent AF. Second ablation 3 days later because of recurrence. He thought there was a gap In the lines but that was not the case - he found a very toxic focus in the coronary sinus which he said was extremely difficult to find and ablate.by Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
Deniss An EP here in London once told me that ablation might not prevent AF from starting, but should stop it from sustaining itself. Sounds to me just like what is happening to you - the lines are doing exactly what they are supposed to do. I have experienced this many times. I have been in nsr since ablation in Bordeaux in January 2003, (will be 16 year anniversary tomorrow!) and that rby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
Since my ablation in Bordeaux over 15 years ago I have been in nsr. But I get many many ectopics, almost 8000 on a 24 hour Holter, which don’t trigger AF. The docs say they’re harmless but I could take a small dose of bisoprolol if they bother me. They used to be very uncomfortable, like being kicked in the chest every few minutes, but if I take magnesium, potassium and taurine every day thaby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
Interesting discussion! I have been in nsr for 15 years since ablation and touch up in Bordeaux, but since I am female and over 80 years old I should be taking anticoagulants. I choose not to for various reasons. I avoid medication of any kind unless it will be lifesaving - seems to me that all medications have side effects which then require another medication, which has side effects and soby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
I did loads of travelling while my AF was paroxysmal, scuba diving trips to very remote places like Papua New Guinea, Palau, Yap, New Caledonia, Vanuatu. Didn't have any problems. Paid extra premium on travel insurance to have cover for AF. I never dived during an AF episode but once I was back in nsr I was right back under water. When the AF became persistent I stopped travelling anby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
Mike I once had to go to A&E after knee surgery, when painkiller Tramadol gave me what I thought was AF. The A&E docs looked at the ECG and said yes, it was AF. I was devastated after about 10 years of NSR since ablation in Bordeaux. I took 5mg of bisoprolol, which I always carry with me, and was back in normal rhythm quite quickly However..... ...a few days later I saw the conby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
An EP in London once told me that the ablation would not prevent AF from starting but would make it impossible for it to sustain itself. Could it be that the lines are just doing what they are meant to do? I sometimes get a few minutes of what feels like AF but it stops quickly so I assume the ablation is still doing its job. Gill (Female, pronounced 'Jill', 15 years of nsr sinceby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
I have been in nsr since ablation and touch up in Bordeaux in January 2003. Since then I have always had many ectopics, up to 8000 on a 24 hour Holter. Prof. Haïssaguerre said they were a nuisance but not a problem, and that if they bothered me I could take a small dose of bisoprolol. I don’t like taking medication but they were extremely uncomfortable. My solution was supplements - magnesiby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
I had 3 cardioversions over the space of 18 months.. First one lasted 36 hours, second didn’t work at all, third, with anti-arrhythmic drugs, lasted 48 hours. I then went for ablation with one of the world's best in Bordeaux, still working after 15 years. Gillby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
Think I might be the longest - 15½ years. I had an ablation and touch up 3 days later in Bordeaux after years of paroxysmal AF and 18 months of longterm persistent AF. Get a fluttery feeling now and then but it feels like runs of ectopics not AF. Most crucial thing is to choose a maestro to do the job - I had Prof. Haïssaguerre, assisted by Dr. (now Prof.) Jaïs. Gill (female and pronounceby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
I dived for many years with paroxysmal AF but I would sit out dives when it was actually happening. I stopped diving when it turned into long term persistent AF. 4 months after ablation in Bordeaux I was on a liveaboard dive boat in the Maldives. Gillby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
Carey is correct. Longstanding persistent AF was what I had before my Bordeaux ablation and touch up 15½ years ago. Gillby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
Davros Since my ablation over 15 years ago I have been in nsr but had many ectopics, nearly 8000 on a 24 hour Holter. The docs in Bordeaux said they were a nuisance but not a problem. They did however feel very uncomfortable, like being kicked in the chest every few minutes. Following advice on this site I started taking magnesium, made no difference. I then added potassium, slight imprby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
The first time I went to Bordeaux in 2002 for ablation I had a TEE (TOE) the morning of the procedure - my choice to have it there because it was cheaper than in UK. They found a clot and I was discharged immediately with everything I needed to deal with the clot. I had already paid in advance by credit card for the ablation. Before I left I spoke to the finance people in the office and toldby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
Quotekong2018 So basically we have no way out but suffer from it for life. That's plain simple and brutal. No so. As I have told you before, I have had over 15 years of normal rhythm since ablation. For me AF is a thing of the past, and if it ever returns I shall be back in Bordeaux as fast as they can take me. Gillby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
The Bordeaux team are on a par with Dr Natale. I have been in normal rhythm since ablation there in early January 2003, ie over 15 years. I needed a second ablation three days after the first, but I had been in long term persistent AF for 18 months so was not an easy case. In those days very few EPs would even attempt ablation for persistent AF. And the technology has improved since then.by Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
Good to hear from you Barry, pleased that all is well. My "cringe" ablation is still working, I’m happy to say. Those Bordeaux people know their stuff! Gillby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
Mike I sympathise with your dilemma! In 2002 I didn’t have the same decisions to make because only a couple of EPs in UK were beginning to consider ablations, so Bordeaux was my only option. I had been in long term persistent AF for 18 months and the prospects for success were not good. I consider myself very lucky to have had all these years of sinus rhythm. Hope you too get it all sortby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
Mike The point of the TOE is not to see if you are in AF but to show if there are any clots behind the heart. I was first booked into Bordeaux in November 2002 and had the same problem getting the TOE at the right time via the NHS or paying for it. Bordeaux told me that they could do it immediately before the ablation, which was much much cheaper than paying in UK, so that’s what I did.by Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
Mike The Bordeaux team sent a report back to the referrer, ie to the EP at King’s, who then did all the follow up. I wonder if your GP will organise follow up for you since he did the referral and will get the report? Worth asking him/her about what happens re follow up perhaps? Things might have changed, but in 2003 you could have a friend or relative stay in your 2-bedded room with you,by Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
Mike This was many years ago (2003) and things may have changed, but I was referred to Bordeaux, at my request, by my EP at King’s College Hospital. They sent all my records and did all the follow up for several years ie anticoagulation, medication, regular checkups and ECGs. Re stopping flecainide, if you have chosen one of the best centres in the world, why would you question their instrby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM
Thanks George, I didn’t have time to dig out the links. Gillby Gill - AFIBBERS FORUM