It's been a while...

I posted on here a few times a year or two ago and always found the site very interesting and informative. I haven't been on for a while, but thought I'd check in today. Good to see that there are still some recognisable names around.

My own story...I've had an LAF problem since 2000, 39-year-old male from the UK. I had a PVI ablation in October 2008 in Middlesbrough under the excellent Dr. Murray. It took a while to settle down after that, and I had a bit of a bad experience with amiodarone, which a doctor put me back on to control the intermittent short episodes I was having in the weeks and months after the ablation. My thyroid went into overdrive and I shed 3 stones (42 lbs) in no time at all and was in a pretty sorry state. Luckily I had a very good endocrinologist on my case and he got me back to normal thyroid function within a few months.

As for the AF, well fingers crossed I haven't had a full-blown episode in almost a year. I am still on a beta-blocker (metoprolol 50mg twice a day) and am reluctant to come off it. I have tried reducing to one a day, but still feel safer on two. I do get ectopics and short runs, but they never take hold. It's usually when I get trapped wind and I get the little feeling in my chest that it's about to kick off, and there are a few skipped beats, but then I take a deep breath and it stays in NSR. It's as if it can't get going...maybe the lesions put in during ablation are stopping it from firing up properly or something...just guessing here.

I also had a hip replacement op last September which went very well. I had a spinal anaesthetic and sedation and my heart was fine, so the doctors told me. Now I am wondering where to go next. Heart and hip fixed...I need to do what I have been meaning to do and get the excess weight off. I am thinking along the lines of a paleo approach...well definitely cut out refined carbs like white flour and sugar. I've been reading up on it and am coming round to the opinion that refined sugar is basically an addictive poison. My only fear is how my body will react to the cold turkey process I need to go through to get off the sugar addiction. Last time I tried in 2006 I had a bad AF episode about a week into it. Of course, correlation does not equal causality, and there were other issues there. I hope the ablation keeps me in check this time and my aim is to get off the beta-blockers, the BP meds and the PPIs...all of which are treating symptoms of a malaise I am starting to think was caused by our friend SUGAR.

Laters

C

Chris - good to hear from you. Your observations about sugar are correct - it it a poison to the body and totally addictive in nature. There is a handy book by Dr. Nancy Appleton, Lick the Sugar Habit, which has been in print a long time so you may find one pre-owned on the Internet for very little outlay.

My functional medicine MD says the easiest way to transition to a diet that is low in carbs and void of sugar is to eat ample lean protein and add healthy fats to meals so that you feel full. Olive oil on salads and veggies at every meal. If you are still craving carbs, then add more olive oil. Of course, eat abundant non-starchy vegetables and do not use fruit for a couple of months.

If you nourish your body with the foods it does need (not sugar), you should be able to make the transition with little problem.

Good luck with your new lifestyle. Here's to good health for you!

Jackie

No fruit for a couple of months? Eek! I should manage that, actually. If I can have something like nuts for snacking on I should be fine. I've already found my that my cravings are reducing.

Jackie:

I bought the book you recommended "The High Blood Pressure Solution" by Richard D. Moore.

I have read about 1/2 of the book to date, Dr. Moore recommends eating lots of different foods and fruits for the Potassium content, he doesn't seem to recommend potassium supplements.

You are telling Chris not to eat any fruit, where does he get his K from, supplements? I believe most would say it is better to get it from your food, berries are excellent and not fattening, apples and oranges as well. This doctor also says to eat beans (all kinds) for K.

Why do you recommend a book and then go against it; you say eat very little fruit, no beans, no potatoes, Dr. Moore says potatoes are high in K. It appears to me that you nit-pick information from books and doctors. I am sorry but I don't know how to put this down so that it doesn't sound unkind, I know that you are a very smart and caring person and we all appreciate your input.

I thank you for the heads up for the book, it is a good read.

Liz

Jackie:

Ignore the nit-pick, I don't like the way it sounds. Its just that this doctor and most doctors recommend eating fruits/veggies, beans, potatoes, there is a lot of K in these foods. Unless someone has diabetes or borderline, then that is different, seems like for most of us those foods are fine.

L

Elizabeth - you can use the word nit-pick if you like... it's your post. I'd use the term, 'cherry pick'...selectively choosing valuable information from various resources.

Remember that Dr. Moore is addressing hypertension... I refer to his book because of the role of potassium for overall health, but I disagree and so do most others that fruit should be a main source of potassium because of the insulin issues it brings up and we've covered that many times in other posts.

There is plenty of potassium to be had in meat and vegetables. Ron Rosedale, the insulin/leptin/metabolic syndrome expert does not approve of fruit to any significant quantity because of the carb content and the insulin response. It's can be difficult for the lay person to understand metabolism issues and the total picture and that's the problem with recommending one book as a 'one size fits all' approach. Dr. Moore's book is good for the technical aspects but not for the menus or daily food intake recommendations.

He is a brilliant researcher but he's not addressing atrial fibrillation and I'm just selectively offering it as a guide to understand the importance of the potassium to sodium ratio and how it pertains to cellular function.

When we get into atrial fibrillation and intracellular stores that involve magnesium and ATP production, then it becomes important to understand the basics and I think Moore's book is an excellent handbook for that.

For dietary guidelines that avoid the glycemic load/index, then there are better resources.

Remember that metabolic syndrome is the fastest growing area of health concern these days - going from only 4 million 20 years ago to almost 24 million currently and rising every day. Metabolic syndrome is the precursor to diabetes and virtually everyone will get to a diabetic state if they live long enough and if they aren't careful about carb intake....according to Dr. Rosedale. Metabolic syndrome takes about 20 years before it manifests as something diagnosable typically through fasting insulin and glucose testing.

It's not smart to eat a lot of fruit (sugar) regardless of the potassium content.

Jackie

Thanks for all the input.

One other thing I have started doing is actually chewing my food and not wolfing it down as I have done since I was a kid. It's common sense really, but so many people forget to chew enough and send big lumps of unmasticated food down their gullets to be dealt with by the stomach. Just by doing this I have already noticed a reduction in my GERD and embarrassing wind production. I also take longer to eat my meals and often end up leaving some because I have time to get full.

Jackie:

You are right, cherry picking is better. I have gotten to the menus in this book they are pretty bad. I don't know how one could eat that kind of food and be free of hypertension.

I was having some high blood pressure readings a few weeks ago, it concerned me, my systolic reading was around 155, my diastolic is always low. I saw my EP last week and he said to take a blood pressure reading evey day for two weeks and then come in. I will relax for about 20 min. and get my pressure taken. My log plus the B.P. reading will be given to him.

I want to get my systolic reading down, that is why I got the book. I did add 1/2 banana a day, plus I got some Krill oil caps. that I have been taking. I was eating quite a bit of low fat mozzerella cheese, I didn't even check the sodium content, but it is high. I quit eating it and the last few days my BP readings are much better--my systolic is anywhere from 125 to 140; my diastolic isn't any problem, that is always low.

I cannot take the K powder you guys take, it affected me badly (I don't know why), it was the potassium gluconate that is recommended here. So, I have to get my K from foods, that does include fruits, beans etc.

I had an insulin test a few years ago and it was good, glucose tests are always ok.

Liz

Liz - just focus on Moore's point that the potassium to sodium ratio needs to be 4:1.... that's the minimum. It's easy to take in sodium...you have to focus on getting enough potassium from food sources...even if you do eat a bushel of fruit and veggies. (BTW, cantelope is one of the best fruits for potassium and it's low in the glycemic index)

Michael Murray, N.D. says: “It is critical to maintain potassium levels within the body. This can best be done by consuming foods rich in potassium and avoiding foods high in sodium. The daily intake of potassium should be at least 3 to 5 grams a day.”

“Most Americans have a potassium-to-sodium (K:Na) ratio of less than 1:2. This 1:2 ratio indicates people ingest twice as much sodium as potassium. Researchers recommend a ratio of 5:1 to maintain health…or 10 times higher than the average intake."

Here's the old potassium post from 6 years prior for the new readers:

" Let’s Not Forget About Potassium "

Author: Jackie
Date: 03-09-04 09:03

Since I’m always touting the benefits of magnesium… I want to emphasize strongly the importance of potassium.

The current Conference Room topic deals with the ultimate loss of potassium due to urinary wasting of both K and Mg. This is very important information and if you haven’t been to the CR, by all means go there and read this new topic entitled: The Aldosterone Connection - Breakthrough?

Note this recent exchange and also see the originating thread post by Hans…We all need to pay attention to our potassium stores and daily intake.

Author: Hans Larsen (---.gv.shawcable.net)
Date: 03-07-04 16:31

PC,
I think you are right on with the urinary K and Mg wasting. Right after an episode my urinary excretion of K was 2.4 g/day and that of magnesium 178 mg/day. However, 11 days after the end of an episode (1 day before the next episode) my daily K excretion was 3.7 g and the Mg excretion was 230 mg. Over the same period my blood level of Mg went from 0.94 mmol/L to 0.87 mmol/L while my blood level of K fell from 3.6 mmol/L to 3.5 mmol/L. I guess that it is possible that the intracellular levels were similarly affected.
Hans


Continuing my post…

Salt depletes potassium. Hypokalemia will very definitely allow palpitations to occur and can even be the initiator of outright fibrillation. Adequate cellular magnesium stores are essential for potassium to do its job.

Since many people are eliminating the higher Glycemic index carbs they are likely also reducing potassium intake. Potatoes….high in potassium, but also high on the GI scale. Oranges – moderate GI but how many times do we eat an orange a day; or a banana – higher still on the GI and almost as bad for reactive hypoglycemia as potato. And smaller appetites will not consume the 3 – 5 grams required.

It’s been suggested that one easy source of potassium is the use of low sodium V-8 as an alternative to consuming huge amounts of vegetables for people with smaller appetites. It can be heated for a nice warm drink as well. Organic vegetable juice – low salt, of course, would be even more ideal But, be a label reader for other ingredients….or blend your own combo of fresh veggies or blend and then cook just a bit. However, one glass of V-8 may not be enough potassium.... read on....

Michael Murray, N.D. says: “It is critical to maintain potassium levels within the body. This can best be done by consuming foods rich in potassium and avoiding foods high in sodium. The daily intake of potassium should be at least 3 to 5 grams a day.”

“Most Americans have a potassium-to-sodium (K:Na) ratio of less than 1:2. This 1:2 ratio indicates people ingest twice as much sodium as potassium. Researchers recommend a ratio of 5:1 to maintain health…or 10 times higher than the average intake."

Some of the potassium containing foods:

Asparagus ½ cup 165 mg. potassium
Avocado ½ 680
Carrot, raw 1 225
Corn ½ cup 136
Lima beans, cooked ½ cup - 581
Spinach, cooked ½ cup 292
Tomato, raw 1 med. 444

Apple 1 med 182
Apricots, dried ¼ cup 318
Banana 1 med 440
Cantaloupe ¼ melon 341
Peach 1 med 263
Strawberries ½ cup 122

Unprocessed meat
Chicken 3 oz. 350
Lamb, leg 3 oz 241
Roast beef 3 oz 224
Pork 3 oz 219

Cod 3 oz 345
Flounder 3 oz 498
Haddock 3 oz 297
Salmon 3 oz 378
Tuna, drained 3 oz 225

SIGNS OF POTASSIUM DEFICIENCY & SYMPTOMS
Muscle weakness
Fatigue
Mental confusion
Irritability
Weakness
Heart disturbances,
Nerve conduction problems
Problems with muscle contraction
-often seen in the elderly

Dietary deficiency is typically the cause – too much sodium; low potassium. However, dietary deficiency is less common than that among people who regularly exercise and have higher potassium needs.

POTASSIUM LOSS FROM EXERCISE
The amount of potassium lost in sweat is quite significant, especially with prolonged exercise in a warm environment. Athletes or people who regularly exercise have higher potassium needs. Because up to 3 grams of potassium can be lost in one day by sweating, a daily intake of at least 4 grams of potassium is recommended for these individuals.

REPLACING POTASSIUM
Over 95% of the body’s potassium is in the cells. A potassium shortage results in lower levels of stored glycogen. Because exercising muscles uses up glycogen for energy, a potassium deficiency produces great fatigue and muscle weakness, the first signs of potassium deficiency.

Potassium supplements are available in forms of either potassium salts (chloride and bicarbonate) potassium bound to various mineral chelates (aspartate -a no-no for afibbers-, citrate, etc.) and food-based potassium sources.

Supplements are restricted to only 99 mg. per dose because of problems associated with high-dosage potassium salts; however, popular so-called salt substitutes such as NoSalt and Nu-Salt are potassium chloride and provide 530 mg of potassium in 1/6 of a teaspoon. Potassium supplements are also available by prescription in flavored formulas but can produce nausea, vomiting, diarrhea and ulcers when given at high-doses.
[we now recommend potassium gluconate powder by NOW brand available from Hans' webvitamin link]

Dr. Murray recommends only food sources or food-based supplements.

The estimated safe and adequate daily dietary intake of potassium set by the Committee on Recommended Daily Allowances is 1.9 grams to 5.6 grams. If diet does not meet body potassium requirements, supplementation is essential to good health. This statement is particularly true for the elderly, athletes, and people with high blood pressure.

SAFETY ISSUES
Most people can handle excess of potassium. The exception is people with kidney disease and they may experience heart disturbances and other consequences of potassium toxicity. Individuals with kidney disorders usually need to restrict potassium intake and follow the dietary recommendations of their physician. Supplements are contraindicated when using a number of prescription medications, including digitalis, potassium-sparing diuretics and the angiotensin-converting enzyme inhibitor class of blood pressure lowering drugs.

RESOURCE:
Encyclopedia of Nutritional Supplements
Michael T. Murray, ND.

PPP = PREVENT PALPITATIONS with POTASSIUM

Jackie

Jackie:

Thank you for your reply.

I cook everything from scratch and use only celtic sea salt, I was eating cheese and for breakfast sometimes turkey bacon or turkey ham. I don't think I eat very much sodium, but I am going to eliminate the above and see if that will make a difference, (except for the celtic).

R. Moore says you have to have adequate K in the blood plasma in order for K to get into the cells, he says if you don't have adequate K in the Plasma chances are you don't have enough K in your cells. My K is very good as tested in my RBCs, I know you only believe in the exactest, but this is what I have and also my sodium levels are fine, in fact, Dr. Brownstein thinks they could be a little bit higher.

Moore believes, at least at the printing of the book, ones diastolic is the critique for BP, I believe that was what the docs went by years ago.

He does say sometimes in spite of everything hypertension can't aways be completely cured. High BP does run in my family, I know people say it is what you eat etc., I believe that mostly works, but not always. I am working on it as I surely do not want to take any BP meds.

Liz

Coconut water is very high in potassium. It should be a No.1 source for otherwise healthy people who are not diabetics or trying to lose weight (some sugar content as well).