A-Fib and Congestive Heart Failure

I had mitral valve repair surgery eight years ago. The surgery went well except for the fact it resulted in a permanently paralyzed left diaphragm, and intermittent A-fib. Consequently, it made sense to me that, for the past eight years I have had difficulty breathing, particularly when in the prone position while trying to sleep.

At my last bout with A-fib in the ER I was advised that it "looked as though" I had congestive heart failue caused by the A-fib. My cardiologist said maybe that's why I have had difficulty breathing the last eight years!

I'm confused: I was okay with the breathing problem being related to having only one diaphragm since it made sense. But, does A-fib lead to congestive heart failure?

Thanks for any insights.

John

"But, does A-fib lead to congestive heart failure?"

It can - especially with permanent afib and insufficient rate control. Paroxysmal afibbers don't usually have this problem nor to permanent afibbers with low afib heart rates.

George

"looked as though" I had congestive heart

Congestive heart failure is diagnosed with an ultra-sound examination and shows up as a low ejection fraction, e.g.: the output volume divided by total volume of the heart(left ventricle chamber) multiplied by 100.
[www.cvphysiology.com]

AF can over time lower the EF, but also drugs:beta-blockers and other anti-arrythmia drugs can lower the EF.

John - you need to learn your ejection fraction number. A deficiency in Coenzyme Q10 is noted in both cardiomyopathy and congestive heart failure. You can be tested to learn your Q levels.

In the meantime, I'd begin immediately taking a high quality Q10 (Such as Jarrow Qsorb) and plenty of it (like at least 400 mg daily if not more). Cardiologist Stephen Sinatra has found that high dose-CoQ helps tremendously in paitients with low ejection fractions. You can learn more about CoQ10 in his book, The Coenzyme Q10 Phenomonen.

Be aware that Dr. Sinatra's success has been challenged by at least one published article: [www.annals.org]
However, Cardiologist Peter Langsjoen also agrees that CoQ10 is essential to supplement.

You'll find that mainstream medicine doesn't know much (if anything) about the importance of, or benefits from CoQ10...as evidenced by the fact that they prescribe statins which block produciton of Q10 and then hearts suffer.

Hopefully, you haven't also taken a statin.

Keep us posted. Jackie

Jackie,

Thanks so much for the info. Unfortunately, I have been taking a statin for about six months, but already had planned to switch to Policosanol as soon as I find some. I do take Q10 regularly - I need to check the dosage tonight.

I get an echo yearly. The ejection fraction has been good so far. However, I noted the last summary report provided by my cardiologist didn't have the ejection fraction noted. I meet with him this coming Monday, and plan to ask what it was.

My biggest immediate concern was what I noted on the most recent echo, that is, a change in regurgitation of the mitral valve from trace to mild, and a change in the tricuspid valve from mild to moderate. Since there's not much I can do about that I guess it's fruitless to worry!

Thanks again.

John

Thanks Gunnar. I have been taking a beta blocker lately to control my heart rate.

I think when I last was in the ER the report of CHF came based on a blood test, rather than an echo. Does that make sense. That is, can CHF be diagnosed by a blood test?

Thanks.

John

John - you really do need to become knowledgeable about the downside of statins. If you have inflammation, you can manage that by other natural means such as Omega 3 fish oil, curcumin, Zyflamend, and others. Be aware that Polycosinol is now said to be ineffective for lowering cholesterol.

Magnesium deficiency is found in mitral valve prolapse, FYI.

You should also consider asking for the Exatest evaluation of intracellular electrolytes to be sure you are not deficient in magnesium and potassium which could be responsible for the arrhythmia.

And, have you considered getting a second-opinion consultation with a highly regarded EP in the area...or traveling to one? Sounds as if you may not be getting accurate information.

Diagnosing CHF... check these:
[www.medicinenet.com]
[www.americanheart.org]


This from a former post on Policosanol...

Not long ago, Policosanol (PC) was a hot natural product claimed to be a solution to lowering cholesterol… and it’s still being included in natural cholesterol-lowering supplements.

The claims were made that this product made from Cuban sugar-cane derived policosanol lowered cholesterol effectively and safely. Problem was, it didn’t work.

I recently received a catalog of pricey designer nutritional supplements and was surprised to see PC was included in the ingredient list of a lipid-lowering product.

In Dr. Alan R. Gaby’s Review of the Literature (November 2008 issue/Townsend letter), he reports that "a number of clinical trials conducted by a single research group in Cuba reported PC lowered cholesterol as well as a statin.

Multiple attempts to replicate that research were unsuccessful. Seven double-blind trials have now been reported… 2 from the US, 2 from Italy, one each from Canada, Germany and South Africa and in no case did PC reduce serum cholesterol in hypercholesterolemic patients.

He says: The consistent inability of researchers around the world to confirm the original studies makes one wonder whether the research from Cuba was fabricated. The available evidence strongly suggests PC is useless for treating high cholesterol.”

Studies referenced:
Francini-Pesenti, F etal..Effect of sugar cane policosanol on lipid profile in primary hypercholesterolemia. Phytother Res 2008:22:318-311.
Francini-Pesenti, F et al. Sugar cane policosanol failed to lower plasma cholesterol in primitive, diet-resistant hypercholesterolemia: A double-blind, controlled study. Complemt Ther Med 2008; 16:61-65

So if you are looking at a natural cholesterol-lowering product and they have included policosanol, choose another…no sense paying for something that doesn’t work.


Jackie

Thanks again Jackie. I agree that I'm having difficulty getting accurate information. I finally relented regarding my cardiologist's insistence that I radically lower my LDL as a result of a partially blocked artery. But last week I changed my mind due to all of the negative literature on statins. However, I don't know how else to lower it (I tried red yeast rice last year which drastically lowered the LDL, lowered the total Cholesterol, and raised the HDL, only to discover that's a statin as well).

I would like to get a second opinion -- what's "EP" stand for?

Thanks.

John

I do not know if there is any blood test. The recommended drug nowadays to treat CHF is an ACE inhibitor like lisinopril. Your physician might suggest digoxin under some brand name, which used to be recommended before ACE inhibitors were available. You should avoid Digoxin as it will increase your intracellular levels of Ca++ and eventually start permanent AF.

Digoxin is still popular by some physicians as they do not like to bother with flecainide, sotalol, etc as it is recommeded to start these drugs in a heart monitored hospital setting. Instead they will make the AF milder by feeding their patients with vagal AF with beta-blockers or digoxin which after a while makes AF permanent. The permanent version might be esier to handle than paroxymal AF by the patient. but long term it might be a disaster. Once permanet it is much more difficult to treat AF with an ablation, half the success rate compared to paroxymal AF.

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
[www.springerlink.com]
<[books.google.se];

"I would like to get a second opinion -- what's "EP" stand for?"
Stands for ElectroPhysiologist, a cardiological specialty having to do with the electrical problems of the heart.
PeggyM

John - Electrophysiologist. The cardiologist with a specialty in arrhythmias or electrical disturbances of the heart.

As for the red yeast rice.... it is a natural statin but relatively low in quantity. If you tolerate it and if you also take large amounts of CoQ you may be able to use it safely. Typically the pharmaceuticals are 'overkill' in the dosage. You can also use the Beta Sitosterols to help manage cholesterol... along with the herbal, Guggulipid. Some say niacin is effective; others say it has no effect.

Otherwise if you decide to pursue unblocking your artery, you could consider chelation treatment, but it will probably have to be paid out of pocket and it's not inexpensive... but it is effective.

Jackie

John,

The blood test was most likely for brain natriuretic peptide (BNP) the level of which is elevated in heart failure patients. Unfortunately, BNP is also elevated in atrial fibrillation patients so judging the degree of heart failure in an afibber using the BNP test would seem to be unwise. I would insist on an echocardiogram to determine your left ventricular ejection fraction which is the "gold standard" for determining the degree of heart failure.

Hans

Thanks again, Jackie. I thought I read a recent notice that the FDA has prohibited the sale of red yeast rice that contains the cholesterol lowering ingredient that's in Lovastatin?

I didn't realize that chelation treatment unblocked artieries. My wife's brother, a physician in Mexico City, performs these treatments. It may be worth my while to take a trip!

John

Thank you so much Hans. That is rather ironic, since the blood test was performed when I was is the ER for A-fib and they were having a difficult time returning me to sinus rhythm (in fact they never did that day - I converted naturally a week later)! I have had an echocardiogram each year for the past three years and the ejection fraction for each of these has been 68% - the most recent having been this past July. So, maybe I'm worrying over nothing. I plan to check with my cardiologist Monday.

Thanks again.

John

Thanks for all of the information, Gunnar. I appreciate it.

John

Thank you, Peggy.

John

John - I've seen that FDA ban info as well, but it's still out there in many products. The only caution I've seen other than the fact that it can still block CoQ10 and also cause muscle damage, is the contamination issue if the product is imported. That grown in the US, (they say) is supposed to be safe.

As for chelation...oh yes... it will unblock clogged arteries. Just visit Dr. Garry Gordon's website.
He's the pioneer of chelation theapy and now even has some oral chelation products that are effective and convenient.
Spend some time there to learn the benefits and then by all means... take advantage of your physician-relative in Mexico. (Just don't drink the water).

One of my friends had extensive blockage and reversed it all including his AF doing several years of chelation therapy. Your one artery would probably respond rapidly. My first holistic MD did chelation therapy and I had some vitamin infusions in the same room. It was fascinating to sit with those receiving chelation treatment and hear their "before and after" stories. One man, in particular, was refused bypass surgery because he was so blocked he was too much of a risk. Two years into his chelation, he was a new man... able to work, climb 2 flights of stairs and do other physical tasks that were impossible previously. It was quite an enlightenment for me.

Check out all your options...and good luck.

Jackie

Jackie,

The chelation idea interests me greatly - as does Doc Garry Gordon and his website/products.

What do you think to his Beyond Chelation product:

[www.longevityplus.com]

for meaningfully improved cardiovascular health? Does it look as though it's lacking anything to you? Would all of us here be better off using the product for rest-of-life maintenance and HA and stroke prevention??

Looks pretty good to me; but I am always wary about these kind of bandwagons....... Would love to know your views.

Mike F.

Mike - I've known of Dr. Gordon and others who initially used IV chelation treatments since the early 90's. Their success stories are always most interesting; especially, those who were given up on by conventional medicine doctors and as a last resort, signed up for chelation therapy. I tried it myself initially with the onset of AF but at the time and with the EDTA they used, I had a severe negative reaction - or so the MD thought it was. So I didn't continue. Now that the oral calcium-EDTA is available, I've often thought it would be good to try again but haven't decided to 'rock my boat' just yet. The oral method seems to be much more convienient. There is also a suppository form that is said to be effective but I believe Dr. Gordon seems to say otherwise... and maybe this is a vested interest thing - I have no way of knowing.

The idea of cleaning out blood vessels of plaque with heavy metal and other toxins certainly makes sense. As I said, I know several people who swear by it. I had several patients have it done very successfully and a good friend had over 30 treatments. It's said, though, that it is an ongoing process. You don't just have 20 or 30 or 50 and stop. It's a lifetime commitment since the blockages can form again. My friends had it done locally and and one was in Indiana. They were all IV chelation therapy done in the doctor's office. Process takes several hours each time.

My last local contact was with a person who had afib. She went for both chelation IVs and special magnesium IVs and her afib stopped. (Whenever you use chelation therapy, since it pulls out all minerals, it's imperative to follow treatment with an IV of replacement minerals - for the obvious reasons.)

As far as Dr. Gordon's products are concerned, I have no personal experience but I have no reason to think they are not legitimate or effective. I'd spend more time reading at his website; maybe buy his book.

Do you have chelation specialists there in your area?

Jackie

Jackie,

Do you happen to know of some of the "home-grown" red yeast rice products that still have the alleged cholesterol-reducing contents? Most don't list the contents on the bottles. I used to buy mine from N3Oceanics, but they stopped carrying them. When I was buying from them I asked one of their researchers about the fact that their red yeast rice was a statin, and was told it was a different type, that is, without the potential downside that, say, Lipitor has. I don't think I ever believed them but, since it worked so well, I took it for several months.

Thanks.

John

John - At Hans' web vitamin link above (box says My Favorite Supplements)

Go there and type in red yeast rice. The first one that comes up is by Doctor's Best and they indicate it is US grown.

I'd write or call Doctor's Best just to have their confirmation that there is no risk of contamination issues or impurities from growing and harvesting.
[www.drbvitamins.com]

Just remember, this is a statin so you do need to protect the downline cholesterol pathway that is blocked. Adding daily CoQ10 is a must as it's just one of the casualties of blocking cholesterol production. Other hormones are also blocked. Watch out for muscle pain and weakness as the RYR can cause the same thing as statins.

Here’s an article worth reading… [www.townsendletter.com]

In fact, visiting Dr. Abramson’s website is recommended.
[www.overdosedamerica.com]


Jackie

Thanks Jackie - great information, and MUCH appreciated help!

John