Convert AF in 20 minutes?

Travel at your own risk.

We have found that the chelated form of magnesium (Albion patented amino acid magnesium glycinate) is highly effective in optimizing our magnesium stores, long-term and stabilizing heart rhythm so we experience fewer afib events.

However, this post is about a different form of magnesium and used in a higher dose to convert AF. I’m just posting for awareness.

This advice was given in a podcast by William Wong, naturopathic physician and PhD Sports Medicine and it has to do with what he advises to stop an event of atrial fibrillation. (Dr. Wong helped me with my initial investigation on both proteolytic and fibrinolytic enzymes to reduce the risk of clotting when in AF.)

First – I have not tried this but it is intriguing. Let me know what you think.
It seems reasonable but with some caveats needed.

THE REMEDY:

At the onset of Afib – drink an ounce of the liquid bowel prep called… Citrate of Magnesium *. He says the afib will stop in about 20 minutes and is as effective as magnesium sulfate Intra-venous solution if it were given in the hospital because a dose of about 1700 mg of highly absorbable magnesium is delivered quickly.

The label on the bottle indicates 1 fluid ounce provides about 1.746 g/fluid ounce or about 1700 milligrams magnesium as magnesium citrate.

WARNING:
Now the caveat – we know magnesium citrate is a highly absorbable form of magnesium… that’s why consuming the whole 10-ounce bottle is effective for a bowel cleanout procedure (we only can absorb so much at one time so much and the body eliminates the excess with fecal purge.) We are talking about only 1 ounce so you’d get a fairly instant absorption of the magnesium and at that small dosage, one should not expect to experience diarrhea. However, I’d suggest if you do try this experiment, you do it at home when you aren’t leaving the house …just to be sure.

Another caveat: The liquid Citrate of Magnesium which comes in a 10 oz glass bottle which is sometimes green (citrus flavor) and clear with a cherry flavor and red dye and is very economical… (under $2)…isn’t pure magnesium. There are other ingredients that you may not wish to take into your body.

Here’s the label from the Red version:
Ingredients: Cherry flavor, citric acid, FD&C red#40, potassium bicarbonate, water purified.

If I were going to use it, I’d go for the green bottle and without the red dye or flavoring.


ANOTHER OPTION - POSSIBLY

So, instead of the liquid form, yet still using this same principle of measurement, I’d think using equivalent amounts of the powdered Natural Calm magnesium citrate (the easy-to-dissolve powder) to water to equal the 1700 mg of the liquid would work and you could avoid the impurities.

Natural Calm’s label says, 1 teaspoon yields 205 mg elemental magnesium. 3 teaspoons Natural Calm = 615 mg. Dare we take enough to equal 1700 mg? I’m not sure, but if you can take the liquid with no adverse bowel response, why not the pure powder? (It is considerably more expensive, however). So to reach about 1700 mg of the powdered Natural Calm, add 8 and a quarter teaspoons to warm water… at least a half cup or more. Stir to blend thoroughly and drink.

You tell me. Does this seem reasonable to try or does it sound risky?

Maybe the reason why, when we gobble down magnesium and potassium at the onset of an event and find it has no conversion effect, it is because we just aren’t taking enough magnesium to make a difference. We probably only take 300-400 mg in capsule form with our panic-mode remedy and Dr. Wong’s suggested ‘big-hit dose’ is substantially more magnesium in solution and ready to work.

I think this dosing information on the liquid citrate of magnesium could be very useful. All we have to do is find out if taking an ounce 1) works and 2) doesn’t cause a bowel tolerance issue at the same time. Hey, even if it did cause a bowel issue, I think a lot of us would trade that if we convert in 20 minutes or so. I don’t think the bowel issue will surface instantaneously and quite possibly, not at all with that low a dose, but since we are all biochemically unique, it’s another experiment of one.

I’m going to get a bottle to keep on hand just in case I have the opportunity to test this remedy myself.

I’d like your input.

Jackie

* Liquid Citrate of Magnesium is sold in most all drug stores… just look in the Laxative section for the bottled products. Most are generic ‘house brands’ offered by that particular drug chain.

Sounds reasonable to me. I think the fact that most of us do the "panic" dose of magnesium in pill form helps, but in a delayed manner so that is why some convert within a few hours unless you are really deprived. I think doing something like this would be worth trying and I certainly would rather have a little bowel intolerance if it will shorten an afib episode to 20 minutes. I think I will pick up a bottle too and make a copy of this information and tuck it back in case. Anything is worth a try I say. Sharon

Jackie,

This sounds worth trying to me! I hope it is a looooong time before I have an opportunity to try it, but definitely think it is worth a try for me since I usually have 40 or more hour episodes. Converting within 20 minutes would be a miracle. Thanks for the info.

Jean

Hi Jackie,

1700 mg of oral elemental magnesium seems like a lot to me with regard to bowel tolerance. It would also seem that any amount that goes out as a laxative, would not be helpful. Certainly worth a try, but I'd be hanging out close to the toilet it I tried it.

I take 400 mg mag glycinate 2x/day & if I add very much more, I get loose stools. I'm guessing that even taking my daily dosage all at once - 800 would cause loose stools for me. 1700 would be a blowout.

Cheers,

George

Is this an untested theory or does Dr Wong have PT's who use this method and convert in 20 minutes. If so can any of his Pt's be encouraged to report on this site about this method and verify the results?

I'd like nothing better than to substitute mg for flec as my pip but I don't want to be the first to try it!


Dennis

George - I certainly agree about the ominous dosage amount or so it seems to be.

I've decided to buy a bottle and try one ounce. I don't have afib but I can test the bowel tolerance action on my own biochemistry.

Dennis - This was just a teleconference. I perked up at the AF mention and it wasn't stated that he has feedback from patients.

I'm certainly not recommending anyone try it when the PIP works well. Some afibbers, though, don't use PIP so it might offer an option if we can resolve the bowel concern. As George points out, one thing we don't want is a case of diarrhea where one loses important electrolytes and other nutrients.

Stand by and I'll report my experience with one ounce. It can be part of my post-New Year's detox program which is now going on about day 11. I'll have to work it into a day when I can be home all day and evening so give me some time to report back.

Jackie

Jackie, you are such a selfless person, you'll do anything for your afib buddies. Be careful girl, don't want you to lose your nsr in the process. Sharon

Just to be safe (for those with kidney problems):

You might want to google "magnesium overdose" before you try anything.

It may be that the magnesium infusion administered in the hospital is safe because the patient is in a place where measures can be taken if something goes wrong.

Also, perhaps the time of action of the infusion is limited by the administration of an antidote, such as calcium.

See the following for information on magnesium infusion:

[www.drugs.com]


-- Dick

And, for information of citrate of mg, see:

[www.drugs.com]

I used to take Natural Calm Magnesium Citrate for my restless legs. I first tried Natural Calm the day before my 1st ever a-fib episode.. made me nervous of it!
I stopped taking all calm when i switched to the chelated tablet form.
Strangely last night my legs were restless shortly after retiring and I made myself an All Calm drink with 3 teaspoons of the stuff. It helped my legs almost immediately stomach upsets either. I used it daily for a couple of years though.

Sharon - not really... I've seen it mentioned many times taking one ounce twice a day, morning and evening as a means to prevent constipation...
so I don't think it's a big risk for developing diarrhea. Some years ago, I considered it but as I recall, the ingredients included PEG and I was not about to ingest that on a regular basis. The label I just scanned recently in the store was free of the PEG so other than flavoring or dye, it looks rather innocuous.

One of the initial mentions of using liquid magnesium citrate as a source for magnesium came from the late Donald Carrow, MD, who was a pioneer in the alternative medicine enlightenment movement. I recall reading it in his monthly newsletter so I am not thinking it is highly risky.

Dick is right though, if one does not have healthy kidney function, it would be contraindicated.

Stay tuned.

Jackie

Thanks for that input Paul... that's one of the key symptoms it is supposed to handle nicely, restless leg syndrome (due to lack of magnesium).

Jackie

I meant to say no stomach upsets though. It proves to me when it stops RLS that I maybe short of magnesium. I also try to avoid calcium in the evening.

Jackie,

Well I tried the “Citrate of Magnesium” deal. Only I did it slightly different. I surmised if 1 ounce would stop afib in 20 minutes then 2 ounces should stop it in 10 minutes. Or maybe 4 ounces in 5 minutes. Just to be safe I just drink the whole 10 ounce bottle trying for an instant stop.

Now I’m so busy changing out rolls of toilet paper that I don’t even notice if I have afib. No, Just kidding!

Seriously:
I went into afib at 1:00pm and at 1:15pm tried 1 ounce of Citrate of Magnesium. At 1:45pm I was still in afib so at 2:00pm I tried another ounce just to see what would happen. At 3:00pm I’m still in afib. It doesn’t seem to be as bad as at other times but my blood pressure machine tells me I’m not in NSR, although my numbers are not that bad. I’m not going for 3 ounces.

Questions come to mind...
I just can’t get over this defective gene (NUP155) thing with Dr. Wang. If Wang is correct then Citrate of Magnesium can only be used as in a PIP principle and not a cure. I would surly welcome almost anything that would pull me out of afib, but as most on this site I am looking for a safe and effective cure and don’t want to have to worry about doing this, or taking that, or “unless we lapse back into old habits”.

Is Wang going to get the same treatment Burzynski got because this hole burning deal is just to big to die?

I am sure afib is remodeling my heart, but even worse yet after 25 years it is beginning to remodel my mind.

I will be watching this board to see if anyone has had success with Magnesium and at what dosage.

Johnny

Thanks Johnny for reporting your experiment. I would not have reasoned that twice as much would work in half the time, though... And glad you were only kidding about the distraction aspect!

It's just speculation, but I suspect that if one is severely deficient in intracellular magnesium, the extra boost from the liquid may not replete cells sufficiently in one jolt to affect a conversion. For those who are taking optimal doses of magnesium on a daily basis but still have an event, it may be worth trying.

I'll be watching too. I don't have afib so I was only going to experiment to see what bowel reaction intensity came up with one ounce. As I mentioned earlier, I'd expect not much... but then everyone is different and I'll try to find out from Dr. Wong what his hands-on experience is with his suggested remedy.

Be well, Jackie

Hi everyone,

For what its worth I've been taking an ounce of the magnesium citrate in the morning on a empty stomach for the last 5 years. I heard about it from a natural doctor that had a radio show. He said one ounce actually has about 375 mgs of "elemental" magnesium. I havn't tried taking it to stop afib, so I have nothing to report on that.

Recently I have changed over to the Dr's Best magnesium, but took an ounce of the citrate everyday for 5 yrs with no ill affects. He did recommend taking it on a empty stomach.

Also about 2 months ago I added the taurine and potassium power from Hans vitamin shop. I'll give everyone a report on it in a few months after I see how its all doing. So far, so good... 20 days and no afib.

James

More input:

Some years ago, I recommended liquid citrate of magnesium to a friend who is a nurse to prevent constipation. She uses an ounce a day with no adverse effects. Loves it. I also discussed this with a friend who uses the liquid citrate of magnesium on a daily basis... he takes 2 and often 3 ounces every night about 10 pm... this would probably equate to taking on an empty stomach.

He has no near-term bowel emergencies or urgencies and has been using it as a source of magnesium and to prevent constipation.

So, while these are only a couple of examples that help alleviate the fear that we could develop diarrhea and lose electrolytes, it still isn't a test to see if one or two ounces taken at the onset of AF would convert in 20 minutes as suggested by Dr. Wong. I'll see if he responds to my query.



Thanks to everyone for the input.

Jackie