Do I need Taurine?

I know so much more from reading this Forum that I recently suggested to my Cardiologist that my Potassium and Magnesium levels be checked. This was done and the result was within normal range (Magnesium 2.2 and Potassium 4.5)
So my question is do I need to start taking Taurine and, if so, how much?
I seem to vacillate between AFib and AFlutter depending on the day.

Richard, did you have the normal blood test or the one done in the cells? My doctor would not approve the cell one so with all I have read I decided on my own to supplement magnesium and some Potassium.

With magnesium it is easy to know when you have reached the optimum because your bowels will not tolerate it. I take 200 mg in the morning 200 mg at lunch and 200 mg at night which makes 600 mg a day. I have tried 800 mg, but I do reach my tolerance in a couple of days with that dosage. I try to reach a goal of 3500 mg of potassium, (I think RDA is 4700, which is almost impossible to reach through foods) I do eat a lot of green veggies and some fruits so I usually supplement between 1500-2000 mg of potassium. I have chosen the 3500 mg as my intake goal because I am skinny and don't feel my body needs the full 4700. It is important that you have enough magnesium and potassium as they work together.

As for Taurine. That amino acid has been one of the things that I think has been what has kept my heart quiet. When I have had afib and my heart rate would be so high and the beat so erratic, taking extra Taurine acts as a beta blocker for me and I can usually get my rate from 160 bpm to about 80 bpm and less erratic. I believe in Taurine 100%. I take 500 mg in the morning, 500 at lunch and 1,000 at bedtime, it also helps me sleep peacefully with no hangover. IF something real stressful is happening I increase my dose up to an extra 1,000 mg.

It's a matter of choice for a person. I know doctors say that the level of potassium and magnesium is good when they read test results, but both mag and potassium flucuate according to what is happening in your body and you can test real good one day and who knows what happens the next.

So, it is your decision about supplementing, but many of us on this bb feel that is vital to staying in nsr. Have you checked out the conference room for the session on protocols? There are about fifty of us who have recorded our protocols in Session #61. Go to the top of the page, click on conference room, then on conference proceedings, then scroll down to #61. There is a lot of good reading on all kinds of afib subjects in the conference room that you may want to check out. Sharon

Richard,

See Jackie's post <[www.afibbers.org]; on magnesium blood tests.

Taurine has been a boon for many of us. I personally take 4 grams/day. Like anything it is highly individual.

For more on magnesium see [www.mgwater.com] & espcially Dr. Seelig's book: [www.mgwater.com]

George

George:

Are you a vegetarian, I thought I had read that here, perhaps I am mistaken. If you are, then of course you need to supplement with taurine, whereas those of us that eat meat, get our taurine from that scource and those that want to take taurine wouldn't need as much as you.

LizRichard Brandt wrote:

> I know so much more from reading this Forum that I recently
> suggested to my Cardiologist that my Potassium and Magnesium
> levels be checked. This was done and the result was within
> normal range (Magnesium 2.2 and Potassium 4.5)
> So my question is do I need to start taking Taurine and, if so,
> how much?
> I seem to vacillate between AFib and AFlutter depending on the
> day.

Liz,

Humans (unlike cats) are capable of manufacturing their own taurine. A veg. diet could be low in some of the aminos needed to make it. There is varying amounts of taurine in meats. One list is here [www.serve.com].

Many consider taurine a conditionally essential amino acid - some humans do not make enough. On this board there are a number of non-veg's that have seen a benefit from taurine - the number of vegetarians represented here is very small. Even those on a paleo diet, such as PeggyM, have benefitted.

George

I think I also read somewhere that the older we get the less Taurine we make and I do wonder how much we really get from our foods. I choose to supplement in case I am not making it any longer and in case I don't get enough from food.

George:

Thanks for the link, but I know cats need taurine in their diets, taurine is added to their food.

It just seems reasonable to me that if you don't eat meat you might have less taurine than I, could be wrong.

I know many on the BB believe taurine is a miracle supplement, that is fine, I personally wouldn't want to take such a high amount of an amino acid and would caution new people to take care, thats all.

Liz

I think that it is important to remember that what we eat (ie take into our mouths, chew and swallow) is not necessarily what we digest and take the nutrient from.

If a stomach is over-full then how can every tiny little particle be properly absorbed and every nutrient pulled out of it?

So although we may be "eating" something, it doesn't mean we are necessarily getting the benefit of the content of that food as it may be swooshing through our system without being properly absorbed. Especially on days when we over-do the magnesium!

Kate

Richard, straight answer to your straight question "Do I need taurine?"

... Probably. Give it a try. Can't hurt.

Kate

Taurine

Taurine is an important amino acid in our body. It is found mostly in our central nervous system, skeletal muscle, and in greater concentration in our heart and brain. It is made from two sulfur-containing amino acids called methionine and cysteine in conjunction with vitamin B6.

Methoinine and cysteine are found in egg yolk and meat as well.

Taurine is commonly found in animal protein and not in Vegetable protein. Vegetarians with a low intake of protein may have difficulty producing taurine in their bodies. In addition to meat, taurine is found in abundance in shell fish. Vegetarians as well as those on a low fat diet will have to be mindful on the amount of taurine consumed.

Cardiovascular Disease

In the cell, taurine keeps potassium and magnesium inside the cell while keeping excessive sodium out. In this sense it works like a diuretic. But unlike prescription diuretics, it is not a cellular poison. It does not act against the kidney, but improves kidney function instead. Taurine is very useful in fighting tissue swelling and fluid accumulation. People with heart failure, liver disease , late stage ovarian cancer, congestive heart failure frequently have unwanted fluid accumulation inside their bodies and people who take long plan flight usually have slight fluid retention.

Taurine has been very successfully used to treat people with high blood pressure. When excessive fluid is normalized, blood pressure becomes normalized. Taurine functions to dampen the sympathetic nervous system, thereby relieving arterial spasm. When blood vessels relax, the body’s blood pressure will fall.

There have been studies showing the positive effectiveness of taurine on heart failure. Aside from having diuretic properties, taurine is able to strengthen the heart muscles and maintain proper calcium balance. Together with Coq10 and carnitine, taurine is able to regulate the heart’s contractility and guard against toxic threat of chemotherapeutic drugs such as adriamycin(doxorubicin). .

Working together with magnesium, taurine also is able to regulate heart rhythm and help to stabilize it.

Women’s Health

Taurine is an important amino acid in the female body. The female hormone estradiol depresses the formation of taurine in the liver. Women who are on estrogen replacement, birth control pill, or those suffering from excessive estrogen (this is a widespread condition commonly called estrogen dominance) may need more taurine. Taurine is also helpful in clearing excessive fluid retention during menstrual period.

Furthermore, synthetic estrogen replacement therapy blocks the production of taurine in the body , as well as in the case of chemotherapy or the lack of good bacteria in the intestinal tract.

Neurological

Taurine functions in the brain and the heart to stabilize the cell membrane by regulating the electro-chemical forces. It tends to inhibit and modulate neurotransmitters in the brain and helps to stabilize cell membranes. It is beneficial to the gall bladders, eyes, blood vessels, and has some antioxidant and detoxifying activities. Because it aids the movement of potassium, sodium, and calcium in and out of the cell, taurine has been used as a supplementation for epileptics as well as for people who have uncontrollable facial twitches. However, because of its inability to cross the blood brain barrier, the use of taurine to treat people who are in a neurological dysfunctional state is limited.

Between 1 and 3g a day, there is usually no problem.

However at a dosage of more than 5g a day, taurine may occasionally cause loose stool. The general dosage for people who have edema, high blood pressure, and seizure disorders range from 0.5-4g a day. In high doses, taurine may increase slightly the secretion of stomach acid.

Source:[www.drlam.com]

Thanks for all the good input.
For the record I am not a vegetarian. Don't know how that rumor got started.
The blood test I had was the standard one. All of my other tests for thyroid, etc. have been positive.
My taurine supplement shipment is supposed to be delivered this coming Monday. Can't wait to see if it helps me.
Richard

Richard - I agree with Sharon - you are probably low in magnesium and I'd want to be taking that supplementally as well.

Jackie

If you have diseases such as Jackies article puts forth, then mega doses of taurine could be beneficial, my reasoning is if you don't have a disease then why the high dosage of taurine. I did read that it can increase the workload of the kidneys.

Didn't Dr. Lam have a protocol for afib which didn't work?

Liz

Kate:

Our bodies take what they need from the food we consume, if we eat the right stuff. I would imagine that you don't get the full benefit from that pill you ingest either.

Liz

In case you have any doubts about the benefits of taurine, here's more info from a product data info sheet from Designs for Health who offers professional grade products to healthcare professionals only. Their motto is "Science First." I trust everything they say because it's backed up by science. Of interest especially is the added benefit of lowering homocysteine. Jackie

Taurine is a sulfur-containing amino acid that plays a myriad of roles in promoting health. Dietary sources of taurine are meat and seafood, especially shellfish such as muscles, clams and oysters.

Those who do not eat these foods regularly, especially vegetarians, may be at risk for taurine deficiency. The scientific community is still in disagreement as to whether humans make enough taurine in their own metabolism to meet their needs.

Also, elevated levels of homocysteine is a sign that the body may be having difficulty making taurine. Because taurine is essential for heart function, immune function, glucose metabolism, and nervous system health, low levels of taurine should be avoided and corrected with dietary changes and/or supplementation.

Benefits of Taurine Supplementation
Lowers Blood Pressure
Boosts Antioxidant Defense
Supports Immune Wellness
Strengthens the Heart Muscle
Stabilizes Heart Rhythm
May Help Macular Degeneration
Prevents Blood Clots
Aids in Glucose Metabolism
Works as a Natural Diuretic
May Help Epileptics
Supports Fat Digestion
Supports Lung Health

Size: 120 Capsules
Each capsule contains: Taurine 1,000 mg
Other Ingredients: gelatin, water.

Recommended Use
As a dietary supplement, take one or more capsules per day or as directed by your health care practitioner.


Precautions:
Most people tolerate between 1 and 4 grams per day quite well. However, those with ulcers should use taurine carefully because it may increase the secretion of stomach acid.

STORE IN A COOL, DRY PLACE. KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN.

This product does not contain wheat, yeast, dairy, artificial colors or flavors.

Read Customer questions and answers about High Blood Pressure in our FAQ.

NUTRITIONAL SUPPORT WITH TAURINE
Antioxidant Defense 1-2g
Stabilizing Heart Rhythm 1-3g
Macular Degeneration 1-3g
Supporting Glucose Metabolism 1-3g
Natural Diuretic 1-3g
Supporting Lung Health 1-3g
Strengthening the Heart 1-4g
Lowering Blood Pressure 1-4g
Epilepsy 2-4g
The above suggestions are for nutritional support only. They should ideally be done with the guidance of a health care practitioner.

Heart Food
Taurine is one of the most important nutrients for promoting heart health. Taurine strengthens the heart muscle and plays a major role in regulating the heart's contractility. [1]

Taurine also acts as a natural diuretic by keeping potassium and magnesium inside cells and keeping excess sodium out. Such mineral balance is crucial for heart vitality and overall wellness. However, unlike prescription diuretics, taurine is not a cellular poison and it does not act against the kidneys In fact, taurine has been proposed for treatment of several kinds of human kidney disorders. [2].

Also, by encouraging the excretion of excess fluid, taurine helps to alleviate pressure on the blood vessels. Additionally, taurine increases circulation and stabilizes blood pressure by dampening the sympathetic nervous system, which when overactive constricts blood vessels. Furthermore, taurine relieves muscle spasms in the heart, which can also cause blood pressure to rise.

Irregular Heart Rhythm May Be A Sign of Taurine Deficiency
Taurine helps promote a stable heart rhythm. Taurine should be thought of whenever cardiac arrhythmias are present, because they may be caused by a lack of taurine. Magnesium and potassium are also excellent heart supporting nutrients that should be considered for patients with arrhythmias. Nutritional support for arrhythmias and other heart ailments should be done with medical supervision.

Taurine: Aids with Seizure Disorders
Taurine's calming effects on cell membranes make it useful in the management of epilepsy. Research in animal studies has shown that taurine has anticonvulsant action in seizures. [3] A study showed epileptics have less taurine than controls, and that some anticonvulsant medication may actually affect the transport of taurine in the body. [4] Certain chemicals like monosodium glutamate (MSG) and aspartame lower the body’s concentration of taurine, which may be one reason why these food additives are associated with seizure activity. Some practitioners have reported that those with seizure activity remain free of seizures when taking taurine. [5]

Protecting Vision
The retinas in our eyes contain the highest concentration of polyunsaturated fats of any cells in the body. These delicate fats need antioxidant protection provided by many nutrients, including taurine. A deficiency of taurine increases damage to the retinas of both animals and humans. [6] Taurine may offer benefit for those with macular degeneration, though clearly more research is needed. [7]

Supporting Immune System Health
Taurine is the most abundant amino acid in our white blood cells. Taurine is the shield these infection fighters use to protect themselves in their battle against viruses, bacteria, and other invaders. When taurine is lacking, white blood cells often won't fire at all, greatly weakening our body’s ability to protect itself. Therefore, for optimal protection against colds, flus, and other immune problems, optimal taurine intake is recommended.

Stabilizing Blood Sugar
Taurine helps stabilize blood sugar in both Type I and Type II diabetes. Taurine appears to do this by potentiating the activity of the insulin receptor. For those with type I diabetes, a daily dose 1.5 grams keeps blood sugar lower over the long term and reduces abnormal platelet activity. [8] For those with Type II diabetes, taurine improves cellular sensitivity to insulin. Diabetics should use taurine under medical supervision, as taurine may reduce the need for blood sugar lowering medication.

Aiding Fat Metabolism
To break down fats, the body needs bile. Bile is made in the liver with the help of glycine or taurine. With optimal taurine intake, bile remains in a liquid state and is less likely to form gallstones. Additionally, people with cystic fibrosis can digest fats more successfully when taking taurine supplements. [9]

Protecting the Lungs
Taurine plays an important role as an antioxidant in lung tissue. Asthma attacks are diminished significantly when a daily 500 mg dosage is taken as a lung aerosol. [10]

SUPPLEMENTAL SUGGESTIONS
Few adverse reactions are associated with taurine supplementation. Most people tolerate between 1 and 4 grams per day well. However, those with ulcers should use taurine carefully because taurine may increase the secretion of stomach acid. If you have a medical condition, please take taurine with the guidance of your health care practitioner, as taurine may change or reduce your need for certain medications.


References:
1. Chapman RA, Suleiman MS, Earm YE. Taurine and the heart. Cardiovasc Res 1993; 27(3): 358-63.
2. Trachtman. Amino Acids. 1996; 11: 1-13.
3. Huxtable RJ, Nakagawa K. The anticonvulsant actions of two taurine derivatives in genetic and chemically induced seizures. Prog Clin Biol Res, 1985: 179:435-48.
4. Collins BW, Goodman HO, Swanton CH, Remy CN. Plasma and urinary taurine in epilepsy. Clin Chem 1988, 34(4): 671-5.
5. Robert C. Atkins MD., Dr. Atkins' Vita Nutrient Solution. 1998:185.
6. Lombardini JB. Taurine: retinal function. Brain Res Brain Res Rev 1991; 16(2): 151-69.
7. Gerster. Age and Aging, 1991; 20: 60.
8. Franconi F, Bennardini F, Mattana A, et al. Plasma and platelet taurine are reduced in subjects with insulin dependent diabetes mellitus: effects of taurine supplementation. Am Clin Nutr 1995,61(5): 1115-9.
9. Smith LJ, Lacaille F, Lepage G, Ronco N, Lamarre A, Roy CC. Taurine decreases fecal fatty acid and sterol excretion in cystic fibrosis. A randomized doube-blind trial. Am J Dis Child 1991; 145 (12): 1401-4.
10. Huxtable. Taurine in Health and Diseases. 1994:413-17.

I googled taurine and most of the information is from vit. companies/holistic type docs.. In the article above in which taurine has played a benefical role, is in heart failure, diaresis (sic), diabetes, cystic fibrosis, seizures etc. I don't have those diseases so why should I be taking mega doses of taurine.

I can only go by myself, I don't take taurine and I have been in NSR for 6 months, when I did take taurine I had a lot of palps and I was getting afib, so I am just giving the other side of the story. If you all think taurine is benefitting you, that is good, end of story.

Liz

Liz,

Certainly we are all individuals. A person should always judge how they, not others, react react to any supplement or med.

George

Let's keep in mind that we are all "experiments of one." I don't think anyone is trying to convince anyone to take Taurine or not take Taurine, it is just a sharing of information. I believe in Taurine and what it has done for me, so I will continue to take it. Undoubtly my body needs it as I have definate benefits, but if Liz has palps from it she shouldn't take it. That's my story and I'm sticking to it...smile. Sharon

Liz wrote:

> Kate:
>
> Our bodies take what they need from the food we consume, if we
> eat the right stuff. I would imagine that you don't get the
> full benefit from that pill you ingest either.
>
> Liz


What pill?

Kate:

Pill as in supplements, i.e taurine etc.

Liz

This is worth reading about taurine: [www.afibbers.org]

<[www.mgwater.com];

George N.

They are indeed long articles---- I believe in the cases of the different diseases cited that taurine appears to be of great help.

My only concern is that people may be taking mega doses of something they may not really need. According to your first URL "The body normally makes all it needs, but under cetain conditions such as diseases, injury or physical exertion and high periods of stress supply may not meet demand."

In that article Richard (who used to post here a lot about amino acids) says he read "dosage is suggested at one gram not more-followed by daily doses of not more than 500 mg. and reducing to 50 mg. and100 mg. a day. Taurine in high doses are not as effective as low doses, repeated infregunetly, since taurine accumulates rapidy and is only slowly metabolized."

Peggy had a question about taurine helping with high blood pressure, saying she had been taking it for around 2 months and hadn't noticed any improvement. Jackie responded saying "If you have essential hypertension, very often no amount of natural type intervention will bring about a control of hypertension." Oh dear.

In diabetes, taurine should be given with caution to patients with blood sugar problems. So with all of these diseases, seems like one should be taking taurine under the supervision of a natural healing doc.

In your first URL there is an article by P.C., I mean no disrespect as I think very highly of P.C., but he must have taken taurine, still opted to have an ablation and is now living the good life.

Now this is probably a dumb question but Taurine is an amino acid from the sulfur group---I cannot take sulfa drugs because of a reaction I get from them, is there any connection?

Liz

Liz - sulfur is not sulfa as in sulfa drugs which are synthetic inorganic forms. I have a sulfa sensitivity but I can and do take taurine with no problem....and I can also take large doses of MSM (methyl sulfonyl methane) which is an organic form of sulfur - often called a food.

As far as people with diabetes, my diabetic son takes taurine with the approval of his MD. The CR article indicates taurine is helpful in lowering blood glucose.

From all the research I've done on taurine and based on my own use which is five years as of now, I don't find any specific reference that indicates taking it independent of an amino acid complex constitutes a problem. As was indicated in the Taurine article in the Conference Room, using 1 - 5 grams daily are appropriate without significant documented risk. Higher doses up to 15 to 20 grams have been used intravenously.

Dr. Braverman says in his book "The Healing Nutrients Within" which is totally devoted to the subject of amino acids... that "therapy can be guided by plasmo amino acid determination. Taurine is usually well absorbed and taurine levels can increase to five times normal during therapy without ill effects." So I'm not seeing that there should be concern over taking taurine as a single amino acid....at least not in the way that there should be concern over taking arginine without also taking lysine.

I realize you can't take taurine and I'm really sorry that you can't because it is such a useful, natural and therapeutic adjunct that complements so well the use of supplemental magnesium and taurine....especially for afibbers.

Hope this helps.

Jackie

Liz, I can understand being concerned about mega doses of any type of supplement without either medical or holistic supervision and a verified need to to take mega doses.

I don't think any of us who are taking Taurine and receiving benefit from it are into mega doses. After reading all of the material on Taurine that Jackie and others have posted, I feel very comfortable with my 2,000 mg per day and maybe 1,000 more when I have afib. As I have said before it is my belief that Taurine lowers my heart rate as a beta blocker does so it is very beneficial in a higher dose for me when I am in afib and I have no side effects from it as I have had with medication in the past that lowered my heart rate.

I too am sorry that you cannot take Taurine, but by what you have said, you are probably not interested in taking it anyway. Please be assured that we all realize that we are making our own decisions about supplements and personally I do a lot of reading and study before I add something to my body. Sharon

Jackie:

Thanks for your answer about sulfa. I will say that taking taurine, even in mega doses is still a whole lot safer and better then taking drugs.

I just read that Prilosac and nexum has been investgated by the FDA because of a suspected link between these drugs and cardiac trouble. A lack of acid may raise your risk of pneumonia, elevated bone loss, article says to take Zantac 150 or pepcid AC, otc drugs.

Liz

My own take is that, for a person with healthy kidneys, supplements are a low risk option. They certainly don't work for all, but IMHO, should be a starting point, along with GERD mitigation, trigger avoidance & diet - like (paleo, hypoglycemia & glutamates). If these don't work for a person, then progressing to meds & surgery are in order.

Liz, with all due respect, those of us who are taking "mega doses" of taurine do "really need" it.

Without taurine I would have to take 3 x 150 mg propafenone hydrochloride every single day of my life (every 8 hours) and suffer the consequent horrible side effects of:- positive/negative reversal making me want to drive on the wrong side of the road, go through "STOP" signs and think I have right of way when I don't have right of way; writing numbers down backwards (why? I don't know, but propafenone makes me do it); being unable to subtract a figure and then decide which of the remaining figures is the "answer"; extreme lethargy; opposition of the take-up of thyroxine (which I need for hypothyroidism); a nasty metallic taste in my mouth combined with dry mouth and eyes ... need I go on?!!

Instead of all the above, I take mega doses of taurine (4 grams per day stays on top of my Afib) and take at the absolute most, one tablet of propafenone every 3 or 4 weeks as chemical-cardioversion.

So perhaps you can see why I am a "fan" of taurine and will forever be grateful to the members of this board who pointed me towards this supplement and why I have a Messianic desire to see other Afib sufferers benefit as I have.

Kate

"...a Messianic desire to see other Afib sufferers benefit as I have. ..."

Kate, you have put your finger exactly upon the reason a lot of us still "hang around here" altho we do not have afib episodes any more. Thank you.

PeggyM

Liz - that was pretty much the point of the No More Heartburn series in the Conference Room.... drugs that suppress stomach acid are detrimental to one's overall health and can bring on other health conditions as well and they do nothing to address the original cause of the stomach distress in the first place.

Drugs have a place but it is smart to know when they are useful and not just money makers for Big Pharma seeking to capitalize common problems that can be corrected with functional medicine approaches.

I'm sure your Dr. Brownstein is a hearty champion of that statement.

Best to you,

Jackie

Kate:

Those side effects that you noted in your post as being from taking Propafenone, would be indirectly because of that drug, you have stated in other posts, and I agree with you, that propafenone interferes with the uptake of the thyroid hormones, which made you hypo. The symptoms you mentioned sound like you were very hypo. The metallic taste is a direct side effect of propafenone.

I too, had a problem, I was taking 225 mg. once in the evening before bed, that was enough to effect my thyroid and I became hypo, my holistic doc. said to drop my dose to 150 mg. and to take Iodoral which I did. My thyroid levels became normal and I feel good and am in NSR since the first of the year.

I would not be able to take 3 tabs a day of Porpafenone, the doctors want you to take that much so as to keep a constant level of the drug in your blood. I am vagal so the one dose at bedtime seems to work for me.

If you didn't have thyroid problems to begin with, the propafenone probably would not have effected you as much, those of us with thyroid problems have trouble with certain drugs/food.

Your health needs are therefore different than some of the people that come to this BB. If taurine works for you great, I believe that we should relate our experiences to what seems to be working for us and let the readers make up their own minds.

Liz

My EP told me that the only professions he can't give propafenone to are accountants because of the problem it can cause with numeracy. I didn't like to tell him that I worked in finance because my alternative was flecanaide which I cannot take. He first prescribed flecanaide for me but I took it 15 years ago and hallucinated so appallingly I would rather die than have to take it again, it made my life totally intolerable.

If I could lose one of my two conditions, Afib or hypothyroidism, I would lose the hypothyroidism, it is a much greater affliction than Afib.

Kate