Seems to me that a discussion has previously occurred regarding cortisol and its effects on our bodies. At this point, I am feeling the effects of chronic stress, and what appears to be elevated stress hormones, presumably including cortisol.

Can anyone guide me to the section where the conversation took place, or can you provide any guidance about how to safely lower cortisol and stress hormone levels without causing any other imbalances?

I'm experiencing some creeeping Blood Pressure difficulties because of these underlying chemical changes, and I want to nip them in the bud. I can tell you that my AF has been entirely under control for 1.5 years now simply because of diet and supplementation. However, the one thing that has always been able to cause ectopics and short-run AF within me is extreme stress or fear. I have many reasons to experience stress and fear these days, so I would welcome any comments or suggestions you might have for me.

Thanks in advance...Jerry

Jerry,

I certainly don't have any pat answers on how to avoid stress.

Please read the article at the following website wrt aldosterone and CV disease:

[www.medscape.com]

Cortisol also attaches to aldosterone receptor sites albeit not as tightly as aldosterone.

You might consider spironolactone, although its benefits appear to be limited to those with disease. But there is a continuum to the process.

PC

Jerry ,

The best way to act upon stress with a long and effectiv effect is :

- Practicing Meditation or Tai chi on a regular basis .

For meditation , it takes 2 time 20 minutes a day and for Tai chi , the best would be two sesion a week + 10 minutes a day at home .

Of course it is time consuming .

Depending where you are and if you don't want to do those activities , walking at the minimum of 30 minutes 3 times a week in a activ way does help a lot.

Those are the best way i know beside psycho therapy to deal effectively with stress. Doing a search on Pub med with the word "Tai chi" "meditation" "qigong" is very interesting .

I say that because i always feel that very few if no proposition at all are made in that forum to deal with stress and many of us agree to say that stress is a important trigger .

Pierre

Pierre,
I have been stressing (!) stress as a potent trigger for afib on this forum for a long time. I agree that people tend not to want to acknowledge it, but focus instead on diet and the more tangible physiological/biochemical components of afib. I tend to look at both, but realize that the chief culprit is probably STRESS. Increased magnesium supplementation may just be another way to keep the lid on the effects of stress without addressing the root cause, stress itself.

It could well be that chemical imbalances in the body and physiological sensitivities in the heart, veins and elsewhere in the bodies of afibbers are the result of stress - just like migraine headaches, asthma, hives and a host of other human ailments.

Good suggestions about meditation and Tai chi.

Carol

Carol:

I couldn't agree with you more. If you were wrong, why would I be able to control my AF under all types of conditions--except when I am under severe or maximum stress? Given the association that I made early on between my AF onset in 2001 and the extreme stress I was experiencing then. To this day, I can keep all AF at bay--unless my stress hormones kick in. Then, I'm off to the races.

In more than a year's worth of prior posts, I made the repeated assertion that our AF is intimately related to a negative shift in our endocrine systems. By that I mean the effects of elevated cortisol, renin, aldosterone, among many others. I firmly believe that the creeping Blood Pressure elevation that I see occuring within myself now is the result of substantial changes in my endocrine system. I am having all of that checked out, since I believe my endothelial functioning will be compromised over time, and I want to nip that AND the BP elevation in the bud.

I'm at the point now, given my success at controlling AF for almost 2 years, and given the effects of stress on my body now, those effects presenting themselves anew very recently, where I firmly believe that my AF and any other cardiac changes coming down the road will be trimmed nicely when I get a handle on my endocrinology. That is my focus and goal for 2004.

All the best...Jerry

I have always acknowledged stress as being a component of AF. The reason I stress diet so much is that for me I found that the dietry changes helped in handling emotional stress. Might sound ridiculous but by eating foods that did not stress the body eliminated more than half the stress I felt on an average day, and without the opiate peptides etc found in dairy and grains, my brain automatically percieves stress in a more postive manner. However, if I cheat, the negative thinking comes back and suddenly I cannot deal with or handle stress again and I become the bain of my own life.

So from my experience the diet helps to train the brain to become more positive. If you train the brain without eliminating the chemicals that cause stress and negative thinking then it seems to me it would be a much harder job - and might even be stressful trying to keep on top of it. Especially when the chemicals in certain foods are affecting the neurotransmitters. One might tire of it too easily. By changing the chemical make up of the brain and body then the task becomes much easier and also enjoyable.

The only thing I know on how to hold back cortisol is to never allow your liver to release glycogen. When blood sugar goes low the adrenals release cortisol which in turn releases stored glycogen to give you energy. So maybe eating small but constant (paleo) meals and snacks might help a bit and add some dried fruit for the energy. If your protein intake is too high your liver might be having to release more glycogen than is good for your cortisol levels. Only a thought but one that works for me. Also lots of water consumption.

Fran

Jerry,

At first glance, I thought your post was from a different Jerry, then upon reading your second post, I realized it was you. It surprised me, for I thought you were doing so well. I'm sorry for your recent stressful situations and I hope it will all work out. Sometimes, we are unable to avoid stressful circumstances, and then our body must react accordingly. I know you are following a Paleo style diet, but as Fran said, you may have to make some adjustments. Maybe your serotonin levels are failing, due to lack of carbs at certain times, to carry the tryptophan past the BBB. I know my levels of trypt. were low, after having the amino test, and being Paleo for about 6 mths. I also have a friend who was following the Atkins diet, and his levels of sleep had diminished, coupled with the fact that he was feeling more stressed. I don't know what his outcome will be, but I suggested to him to eat more bananas away from his protein meals, or some kind of fruit. Maybe even a cooked potato, as Fran had spoken about from the book, "Potatoes Not Prozac", could help. I don't know your circumstances, but deep breathing would also be quite helpful, several times a day, to rest your mind and rejuvenate the energy stores of your brain. I know from your past posts, that you are a thinker, and I perceive that to mean that you never rest your mind, and under stressful situations, that's even more of the case. Dr. Gersten felt it to be very important to meditate and deep breathe each day, whether stressed or not.

I think I know the post you are speaking of and Jackie was the one who posted. I'll see if I can find it, and then give you the link. Take care of yourself Jerry, and know two things. Control the situations that are controllable by only doing the best that you can, and let go of the ones that are not.

Richard

Jerry,

Let me know if this is the post you're referring to.

[www.afibbers.org]

Richard

Carol , jerry, fran ,richard,

I cound'nt agree more with all of you , i also strongly belive that correct nutrition and the help of some supplement has a strong influence on stress.
I myself have change completely the way i eat and with each step in those change , i could experience a change for the better . Without changing my eating habit , without taking magnesium or considering the influence of food on neurotransmetor .... i don't think i would have made so much progress against AF and i would say more . Doing so , i have a much pleasurable life than before and i must thank you all of you who through the forum help me in such a way you can not imagine .

In my post , i just wanted to emphasis one possible strategy that helped me also.

Thank you for you remark.


Pierre

Richard:

Yes, that is the post I was thinking about. Thanks for bringing it forward.

As for my situation, that is also true. I was doing quite well, but stress from a variety of factors and places has taken a great toll on me. I know of no other reason for a change in my status. Corrections need to be made, and I'm up to the challenge. I've begun to attack the problem, and I will not surrender to any drug therapy unless or until I've been unable to correct the situation without drugs. For me, any increase in blood pressure should be considered a lifestyle issue, and that means I've been too lax in my habits. Time for more changes, one way or another.

All the best...Jerry

PC:

Thanks for the reference. I appreciate it.

Began to read, and stress presented itself. Why? Because the frame of that site appears to be CHF, which is a terrifying prospect. Is that what you meant by your statement that "there is a continuum to the process"? If so, I hope I can beat it, mate.

All the best...Jerry

Jerry,

Yes, that is what I meant by a continuum. Modern medicine has a hard time picking up early subclinical disease. Measuring blood levels of whatever is a lot easier than measuring and understanding intracellular levels. Many of us have a false sense of security based on some clean bill of health pronouncement by our local MD. Michael Lam at www.lammd.com underscores this fact in his book as well.

Oxidative damage be it via emotional stress/aldosterone/cortisol/... or via physical stress/free radicals/?aldosterone/... is occurring constantly in us all. All of the suggestions above are excellent. But to each his own. Whatever works.

Although I irrationally ran too many marathons in my younger years, exercise has otherwise served me well, especially now. Moderation in all things. However, at this point damage has obviously been done. But no use crying over spilt milk. The nutritional suggestions that have appeared on this BB are a word to the wise in limiting this ongoing aging process.

I hope I haven't demeaned in any way the alternative approach to LAF. It just hasn't worked for me. But I really believe in it wrt health in general. I applaud the continuing efforts of Richard, Fran, Jackie, yourself and so many others in uncovering important pieces of the puzzle and educating the rest of us. The emotional support alone is a great stress buster (thank you Hans).

PC v55

I find that when I follow a Paleo Diet rigidly, I tend to become " hyper" and find it more difficult to sleep. I wonder if some, but not alot of starches, and sugars (the bad guys, the "comfort foods") aren't necessary to sedate us or slow down the energizing proteins. Could following a Paleo or Atkins Diet too closely make us tense and less able to handle stress? Wurtmann at MIT has published on this connection with respect to serotonin.

Carol

Jerry

In response to your “lowering cortisol” question, I refer you to a lengthy but important article….Consequences of Magnesium Deficiency on the Enhancement of Stress Reactions; Preventive and Therapeutic Implications (A Review) by Mildres S. Seelig, MD, MPH, Master CAN. (web address at the end)

I know you’ve been successful with supplemental magnesium but it is entirely possible you need to boost your levels as much as possible since stress depletes magnesium and your levels may well be lower than what is therapeutic for you.

A few key points excerpted and paraphrased from the article to intice you into reading more....

1) Stress, both physical and emotional, evokes release of the stress hormones: catecholamines and corticosterioids, which mediate release and utilization of substrates for energy production and for improved skeletal and cardiac muscle performance. However, excesses, which cause Mg loss and inactivation can be implicated in cardiovascular disorders which include arrhythmias. (Stress causes magnesium depletion.)

2) In affluent societies, severe dietary Mg deficiency is uncommon, but dietary imbalances such as high intakes of fat and/or calcium can intensify magnesium inadequacy, especially under conditions of stress and intensify adverse reactions.

3) Emotion – evokes outpouring of stress hormones which deplete myocardial magnesium – as the central cardio-damaging factor of stress leading to tachycardia, arrhythmia, cardiomyopathy and even sudden cardiac death.

End of excerpts


For immediate stress relief, consider trying Bach Flowers Rescue Remedy – one or 1 drops as preventive or even at the onset. At bedtime, try 4 drops. I find it totally relaxing – so much so, I don’t drive when I use it. Another possibility is a Metagenics product – Serenegen – an herbal blend that is not sedating at all, but rather just provides an internal calm that is difficult to describe but very effective. I’ve used both and still do when stress presents itself. I’ve found no adverse reactions and did take it with heart meds.

Also, I note Fran mentioned the possible adrenaline surge from low blood glucose. Stress depletes blood glucose very fast, adrenaline response boosts cortisol as it is supposed to do. But, examine your eating schedule to see if you are going too long between meals – try for six small and balanced meals a day to eliminate these surges.

Last – Watch for my post coming out soon on adding taurine along with magnesium – and why. My preliminary research indicates we (afibbers) should be reading about taurine’s role and how it relates to afib. I’ll be posting soon.


Jackie

www.bartterside.com/consequences_of_magnesium_defici.htm.

Jackie I can't get that article.

Adrian

Adrian,

Try this instead

[www.barttersite.com]

PC

Thanks very much, to all of you. Looking forward to your coming posts. Jerry

Carol

I too find that too much protein and too little carbs (not talking grains or potatoes here) have a bad influence on me and my sleeping goes to pot.

I NEED things like dried fruit and bananas (high energy foods) and starchy carbs like carrots and parsnips, in the same quantities as my protein with double fat. Many on the board think they might be detrimental - but I for one find them beneficial. This is my ratio - the one that is serving me well this past two years.

The joy of eating paleo is that you can follow it with whatever ratio suits you. And I agree with you Carol, we do need some of the high carb foods to maintain balance and supply seratonin - melatonin, not to mention keeping cortisol down due to running on glucagen. How much high carbs depends on your own metabolic rate. Diets are very individual and there is no such thing as a one size fits all balanced diet. My own way of knowing is that if I start to crave bread and cheese I know my carb and fat intake has been too little so I have to eat more veggies and nuts - and for a quick fix dried fruit and nuts. Just remember because something might be bad for you in excess it does not mean that too little is good either. All of us tend to be guilty of thinking that if something is good for you more is better and vice versa. The solution I think is moderation.

Good luck Carol - and Jerry - in finding that individual balance


Fran