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Bacillus subtilis supplement to replace natto food?
Posted by Dean
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Dean
Bacillus subtilis supplement to replace natto food? December 11, 2006 01:33PM |
Hello to all,
While researching natto food I have come across quite a few websites that discuss the outstanding results achieved when supplementing with Bascillus subtilis, the same (or very similar) bacteria that makes natto food.
I must point out that there is some confusion with the naming of the bacteria in natto food. It was variously called B. Natto or B. Subtilis variety natto or plain B. Subtilis. According to Wikepedia the natto bacteria is now officially called B. Subtilis so for the purpose of this post I will refer to the natto bacteria as B. Subtilis.
As you know, I have been regularly posting my extremely successful natto food exploits but the response from other afibbers to try natto and duplicate my results has been very disappointing. The biggest problem seems to be availability and the very ordinary look and taste of natto food. Natto food is plainly not appealing for long term use.
The answer then, could be to supplement with a pure form of the active bacteria in natto, B. Subtilis.
There is a heap of information about B. Subtilis on the internet. I have included some of the descriptions about B. Subtilis at the end of this post.
From my limited research there seems to be several B. Subtilis supplements on the market. Most of them include other forms of Bascillus so for the benefit of afibbers a pure form of the supplement would be best. Maybe you know of one such supplement?
There are some questions that need to be asked regarding safety of B. Subtilis supplements for afibbers. Some of my questions are:
- Are B. Subtilis in a supplement the same as B. Subtilis in natto food or are there some noticeable differences?
- Afibbers need to know if supplemental B. Subtilis produces nattokinase and Vitamin K2 as in natto food? From my observations so far I think the B. Subtilis in a supplement form does not.
I would be fascinated to see if B. Subtilis supplementation could replicate my natto food results and put afib into remission in other afibbers.
Dean
[beseen.net]
Bacillus Subtilus a remarkable, aerobic transient bacteria commonly found in the environment and in various cavities of the human body, including those cavities covered with mucous membranes. B. subtilus is not destroyed by the low pH of the stomach acids of by the pepsin and pancreatic enzymes. When the spores of B. subtilus reach the intestinal tract, germination takes place to produce vegetative cells, which discharge and liberate enzymes into the intestines. These enzymes complete digestion with acid fermentation. This acidity inhibits the development of putrefactive flora and potential pathogenic bacteria; the enzymes may directly disintegrate cells of proteus, e. coli, colibacilli, and staphlocci. The complex composition of this particular enzyme system which, includes proteolytic enzymes, is capable of hydrolyzing carbohydrates, lipids, and proteins and is responsible for its beneficial effects against intestinal problems, including diarrhea, putrefaction, and flatulence. B. subtilus has perhaps the strongest ability to strengthen and activate the body's immune system and to stimulate the proliferation of crucial T and B lymphocytes.
(I have abbreviated this next post as it is rather long winded but very interesting. Well worth the trouble reading. The author is trying to sell a B. subtilus supplement so you need to discount the advertising hype- Dean)
[users.penn.com]
The Bacillus Subtilis Story
Dr. Rothschild backed up his point by telling us the story of the discovery of the Bacillus subtilis, a bacterial microorganism that is commonly found in the environment rather than in humans, yet is well known by modern science to be very friendly to the human system. It can promote dramatic healing benefits in humans, even though it isn't one of the native microbes that normally inhabit the human body.
According to Dr. Rothschild, the story of Bacillus subtilis goes like this:
The bacillus subtilis was discovered by the Nazi German medical corps in 1941, toward the end of their African campaign. At the time, the German military victory was at its height. But the German high command became genuinely alarmed when hundreds upon hundreds of soldiers in North Africa suddenly began dying every week. Oddly, the Nazi soldiers weren't dying because of British General Montgomery's retaliatory bombs and shrapnel, but instead, they were dying of uncontrollable dysentery.
Of course, the Germans were aware that dysentery was caused by pathogenic (i.e., disease-causing) bacteria from local food and water sources. But in those days, there were no antibiotics. Sulfur was already on the market, but only in a topical non-ingestible form. So with no medication available with which to stop the plague of dysentery, the Nazis quickly began looking for other means to help their dying soldiers.
The German high command immediately sent out a contingent of scientists, physicians, chemists, biochemist, bacteriologists and other experts to help solve the problem. W'th typical German circumspection, these top experts reasoned that there must be a natural way to counteract the deadly bacteria causing the dysentery because, if there wasn't, the millions of Arabs living in the region would have been dead long ago.
Therefore, the Germans' first step was to closely scrutinize the native Arabs, and see whether or not they were affected by dysentery. What they discovered was that the Arabs also caught dysentery, but at the first sign of diarrhea [the #1 symptom of dysentery-Ed.] the Arabs would do something quite incredible: They would immediately begin following around a horse or camel until it would drop its dung. Then, the affected Arab would pick up the warm dung droppings, and quickly gulp them down! This strange procedure effectively eliminated the dysentery almost overnight.
Once the good hygienic Germans finally recovered from the shock of seeing the Arab natives gulping down warm camel dung, they quickly realized that there must be something in the dung that somehow counteracted the harmful bacteria that caused the dysentery. They questioned the Arabs, who told them that they had no idea why it worked, but that their fathers had always done so, as had their forefathers and it had always worked. The only caveat was that the camel or horse dung had to be ingested while still warm and fresh, because it had no effect on the dysentery if ingested cold.
So the Nazis began carefully examining fresh camel and horse dung. What they discovered was that it was teeming with a powerful bacterial microorganism which later came to be called Bacillus subtilis. This bacteria, it turned out, is so strong that it practically cannibalizes all harmful microorganisms in the human body-particularly pathogenic bacteria like the virulent strain which was causing dysentery in the German troops.
Within a very short time, the Nazis began producing hundreds and thousands of gallons of active Bacillus subtilis cultures for their troops to ingesk And bingo, no more dysentery! Soon afterwards, the Germans even discovered the process by which the Bacillus subtilis cultures could be dried and placed into easily ingestible capsules. From that time forward, the resourceful Germans had no more problems with losing troops from dysentery.
Still Benefiting Health-Savvy Individuals
For many years afterwards, cultures of Bacillus subtilis were sold worldwide as a medicinal product (sold in the U.S. and Mexico, for example, under the brand name Bacti-Subtil) rapidly becoming the world's leading treatment for dysentery and other intestinal problems. Unfortunately for Americans, this popular bacterial supplement that cures intestinal infections began losing favor in the late 1950's and early 1960's, upon the advent of synthetic antibiotics which were heavily touted by the giant pharmaceutical companies as "wonder drugs," even though they cost five times as much as Bacti-Subtil, and took three times longer to accomplish the same results. Nonetheless, Bacillus subtilis remains one of the most potent and beneficial of all health-promoting and immunestimulating bacteria. According to clinical studies documented in the medical research report, Immunostimulation by Bacillus Subtilis Preparations, by micro-biologist J. Harmann, the cell wall components of ingested Bacillus Subtilis are able to activate nearly all systems of the human immune defense, including the activation of at least three specific antibodies (IgM, IgG and IgA secretion) which are highly effective against many of the harmful viruses, fungi and bacterial pathogens which regularly attempt to invade and infect the human system.
Bacillus subtilis is still used widely today in Germany, France and Israel, where safe, effective all-natural therapeutic products are more highly esteemed by the health-savvy public than the more expensive synthetic drugs espoused by the orthodox medical establishment with all of their dangerous side effects.
In short, the incredible Bacillus subtilis, which is commonly found in the outside environment rather than in the human intestinal system, continues to benefit mankind ever since its unusual discovery by the Germans in 1941. What's more, it is only one small example of the multitude of "friendly" microorganisms which can create tremendous benefits for humans when ingested, even though they are not necessarily "native" microorganisms to the human system.
How It Works:
A Basic Outline When EarthFlora is ingested, it moves from the stomach to the intestinal tract and forms colonies of beneficial SBO's along the way, which attach themselves to the intestinal wall. Then, as food works its way through the gastro-intestinal system, it drags some of the bacteria from these colonies further "down the line", these bacteria also attaching to the intestinal wall. Within a short period of time, the microorganism attachment to the intestinal wall encompasses literally the entire length of the gastrointestinal tract.
The SBO's in EarthFlora grow and multiply into large colonies wherever they attach to the intestinal wall. Once established, they quickly begin producing an environment which dsmatically stimulates the body's ability to absorb and utilize crucial nutrients, while simultaneously ridding the intestinal tract of both putrefaction and pathogenic (i.e., disease-causing) organisms. Here are f~ve of the main functions conducted by the SBO's once they are integsted into the human intestinal system through ingestion as a food supplement
Function #1: Once the SBO's have established their colonies in the digestive tract, they immediately begin eliminating all accumulated putrefaction in which harmful pathogenic organisms thrive. The SBO's have the ability to get in behind putrefaction that has stuck to the walls of the colon and other areas of the intestinal tract, and devour it away. Excess putrefaction is dislodged by the SBO's, and then flushed out of the intestinal tract by normal eliminative processes.
Function #2: The SBO's also go to work breaking down hydrocarbons. With this unique ability, all foods are broken down into their most basic elements, allowing almost total absorption through the digestive system, and thereby dsmatically increasing ovesll nutrition, and rapidly enhancing cellular growth and development. This process also vastly aids the digestive system in the process of elimination, because of the unusually thorough and complete manner in which all foods are broken down by the SBO's. As a major side benefit, constipation is eliminated almost overnight.
Function #3: While in the digestive tract, the SBO's produce specific proteins which act as antigens. These, in turn, stimulate the immune system to produce huge quantities of antibodies over and above that which the immune system would normally have available for use. This vastly increased antibody output dsmatically amplifies the immune system's ability to ward off disease and illness. Plus, it enhances the immune system's ability to battle virtually any disease or illness already afflicting the body. Because of this factor, which we'll explain more in-depth in just a moment, many individuals using EarthFlora have reported amazing healing results from diseases.
Function #4: The SBO's are extremely aggressive against pathological molds, yeast, fungi, and viruses. They quickly engulf and ingest harmful microbes such as Candida albicans, Candida parapsilosis, Penicillium frequens, Penicillium notatum, Mucor racemosus, Aspergillus niger and many others, which would otherwise infect the body and cause serious illness and even chronic degenestive disease. In eliminating pathogenic microbes, the SBO's end up allowing the over-worked immune system to rest and gain strength.
Function #5: The SBO's work in a symbiotic relation to somatic cells. They metabolize proteins for the cells, and simultaneously help rid the cells of toxic wastes, thereby dramatically boosting the normal cellular functions which are the very basis of all human health.
It is chiefly because of these five specific functions of the SBQ's contained in EarthFlora that such dramatic healing and immune-stimulation results are being achieved for people around the world who are quietly using this unique and exclusive new therapeutic food supplement. But the truly fascinating immune-stimulating effects of the SBO's can only be fully realized when one looks at the data produced by the ongoing laboratory tests being conducted by some of the world's top scientists and immune system experts. In the following section, we'll take a closer look at some of this exciting data, which helps more completely explain the how and the why of EarthFlora's incredible effectiveness as a powerful immuno-stimulator for the human body.
[www.explorepub.com]
Immunostimulation by Bacillus Subtilis
Bacillus subtilus as whole cells, spores and cell wall fractions is comparable to or even superior to the patent herbal immunostimulant Echinacea purpurea considering its efficacy.
Classic in-vitro and in-vitro tests for immunstimulation as the granulocyte-smear-method, the carbon-clearance-test, the chemiluminescence-model and the T-lymphocyte-test document the enhancement of the body's unspecific acting defense mechanism.
Recent clinical trials confirm efficacy of Bacillus subtilus in the treatment of chronic recidiving infections of the urinary tract, the respiratory tract of patients with defects and with food allergies.
Recently, an antibiotic compound isolated from a strain of B. subtilis found in the probiotic Biosporin with activity against H. pylori has been reported (31).
We show here that at least two probiotic strains, BiosubtylNT and Subtyl, produce antimicrobial agents (or bacteriocin-like inhibitory substances) that are active against other Bacillus species. We note that certain Bacillus species have been associated with infection of the GIT, but it is also possible that these agents are active against a broader group of species. In any case, production of the antimicrobial agents could be an element in the probiotic effect.
While researching natto food I have come across quite a few websites that discuss the outstanding results achieved when supplementing with Bascillus subtilis, the same (or very similar) bacteria that makes natto food.
I must point out that there is some confusion with the naming of the bacteria in natto food. It was variously called B. Natto or B. Subtilis variety natto or plain B. Subtilis. According to Wikepedia the natto bacteria is now officially called B. Subtilis so for the purpose of this post I will refer to the natto bacteria as B. Subtilis.
As you know, I have been regularly posting my extremely successful natto food exploits but the response from other afibbers to try natto and duplicate my results has been very disappointing. The biggest problem seems to be availability and the very ordinary look and taste of natto food. Natto food is plainly not appealing for long term use.
The answer then, could be to supplement with a pure form of the active bacteria in natto, B. Subtilis.
There is a heap of information about B. Subtilis on the internet. I have included some of the descriptions about B. Subtilis at the end of this post.
From my limited research there seems to be several B. Subtilis supplements on the market. Most of them include other forms of Bascillus so for the benefit of afibbers a pure form of the supplement would be best. Maybe you know of one such supplement?
There are some questions that need to be asked regarding safety of B. Subtilis supplements for afibbers. Some of my questions are:
- Are B. Subtilis in a supplement the same as B. Subtilis in natto food or are there some noticeable differences?
- Afibbers need to know if supplemental B. Subtilis produces nattokinase and Vitamin K2 as in natto food? From my observations so far I think the B. Subtilis in a supplement form does not.
I would be fascinated to see if B. Subtilis supplementation could replicate my natto food results and put afib into remission in other afibbers.
Dean
[beseen.net]
Bacillus Subtilus a remarkable, aerobic transient bacteria commonly found in the environment and in various cavities of the human body, including those cavities covered with mucous membranes. B. subtilus is not destroyed by the low pH of the stomach acids of by the pepsin and pancreatic enzymes. When the spores of B. subtilus reach the intestinal tract, germination takes place to produce vegetative cells, which discharge and liberate enzymes into the intestines. These enzymes complete digestion with acid fermentation. This acidity inhibits the development of putrefactive flora and potential pathogenic bacteria; the enzymes may directly disintegrate cells of proteus, e. coli, colibacilli, and staphlocci. The complex composition of this particular enzyme system which, includes proteolytic enzymes, is capable of hydrolyzing carbohydrates, lipids, and proteins and is responsible for its beneficial effects against intestinal problems, including diarrhea, putrefaction, and flatulence. B. subtilus has perhaps the strongest ability to strengthen and activate the body's immune system and to stimulate the proliferation of crucial T and B lymphocytes.
(I have abbreviated this next post as it is rather long winded but very interesting. Well worth the trouble reading. The author is trying to sell a B. subtilus supplement so you need to discount the advertising hype- Dean)
[users.penn.com]
The Bacillus Subtilis Story
Dr. Rothschild backed up his point by telling us the story of the discovery of the Bacillus subtilis, a bacterial microorganism that is commonly found in the environment rather than in humans, yet is well known by modern science to be very friendly to the human system. It can promote dramatic healing benefits in humans, even though it isn't one of the native microbes that normally inhabit the human body.
According to Dr. Rothschild, the story of Bacillus subtilis goes like this:
The bacillus subtilis was discovered by the Nazi German medical corps in 1941, toward the end of their African campaign. At the time, the German military victory was at its height. But the German high command became genuinely alarmed when hundreds upon hundreds of soldiers in North Africa suddenly began dying every week. Oddly, the Nazi soldiers weren't dying because of British General Montgomery's retaliatory bombs and shrapnel, but instead, they were dying of uncontrollable dysentery.
Of course, the Germans were aware that dysentery was caused by pathogenic (i.e., disease-causing) bacteria from local food and water sources. But in those days, there were no antibiotics. Sulfur was already on the market, but only in a topical non-ingestible form. So with no medication available with which to stop the plague of dysentery, the Nazis quickly began looking for other means to help their dying soldiers.
The German high command immediately sent out a contingent of scientists, physicians, chemists, biochemist, bacteriologists and other experts to help solve the problem. W'th typical German circumspection, these top experts reasoned that there must be a natural way to counteract the deadly bacteria causing the dysentery because, if there wasn't, the millions of Arabs living in the region would have been dead long ago.
Therefore, the Germans' first step was to closely scrutinize the native Arabs, and see whether or not they were affected by dysentery. What they discovered was that the Arabs also caught dysentery, but at the first sign of diarrhea [the #1 symptom of dysentery-Ed.] the Arabs would do something quite incredible: They would immediately begin following around a horse or camel until it would drop its dung. Then, the affected Arab would pick up the warm dung droppings, and quickly gulp them down! This strange procedure effectively eliminated the dysentery almost overnight.
Once the good hygienic Germans finally recovered from the shock of seeing the Arab natives gulping down warm camel dung, they quickly realized that there must be something in the dung that somehow counteracted the harmful bacteria that caused the dysentery. They questioned the Arabs, who told them that they had no idea why it worked, but that their fathers had always done so, as had their forefathers and it had always worked. The only caveat was that the camel or horse dung had to be ingested while still warm and fresh, because it had no effect on the dysentery if ingested cold.
So the Nazis began carefully examining fresh camel and horse dung. What they discovered was that it was teeming with a powerful bacterial microorganism which later came to be called Bacillus subtilis. This bacteria, it turned out, is so strong that it practically cannibalizes all harmful microorganisms in the human body-particularly pathogenic bacteria like the virulent strain which was causing dysentery in the German troops.
Within a very short time, the Nazis began producing hundreds and thousands of gallons of active Bacillus subtilis cultures for their troops to ingesk And bingo, no more dysentery! Soon afterwards, the Germans even discovered the process by which the Bacillus subtilis cultures could be dried and placed into easily ingestible capsules. From that time forward, the resourceful Germans had no more problems with losing troops from dysentery.
Still Benefiting Health-Savvy Individuals
For many years afterwards, cultures of Bacillus subtilis were sold worldwide as a medicinal product (sold in the U.S. and Mexico, for example, under the brand name Bacti-Subtil) rapidly becoming the world's leading treatment for dysentery and other intestinal problems. Unfortunately for Americans, this popular bacterial supplement that cures intestinal infections began losing favor in the late 1950's and early 1960's, upon the advent of synthetic antibiotics which were heavily touted by the giant pharmaceutical companies as "wonder drugs," even though they cost five times as much as Bacti-Subtil, and took three times longer to accomplish the same results. Nonetheless, Bacillus subtilis remains one of the most potent and beneficial of all health-promoting and immunestimulating bacteria. According to clinical studies documented in the medical research report, Immunostimulation by Bacillus Subtilis Preparations, by micro-biologist J. Harmann, the cell wall components of ingested Bacillus Subtilis are able to activate nearly all systems of the human immune defense, including the activation of at least three specific antibodies (IgM, IgG and IgA secretion) which are highly effective against many of the harmful viruses, fungi and bacterial pathogens which regularly attempt to invade and infect the human system.
Bacillus subtilis is still used widely today in Germany, France and Israel, where safe, effective all-natural therapeutic products are more highly esteemed by the health-savvy public than the more expensive synthetic drugs espoused by the orthodox medical establishment with all of their dangerous side effects.
In short, the incredible Bacillus subtilis, which is commonly found in the outside environment rather than in the human intestinal system, continues to benefit mankind ever since its unusual discovery by the Germans in 1941. What's more, it is only one small example of the multitude of "friendly" microorganisms which can create tremendous benefits for humans when ingested, even though they are not necessarily "native" microorganisms to the human system.
How It Works:
A Basic Outline When EarthFlora is ingested, it moves from the stomach to the intestinal tract and forms colonies of beneficial SBO's along the way, which attach themselves to the intestinal wall. Then, as food works its way through the gastro-intestinal system, it drags some of the bacteria from these colonies further "down the line", these bacteria also attaching to the intestinal wall. Within a short period of time, the microorganism attachment to the intestinal wall encompasses literally the entire length of the gastrointestinal tract.
The SBO's in EarthFlora grow and multiply into large colonies wherever they attach to the intestinal wall. Once established, they quickly begin producing an environment which dsmatically stimulates the body's ability to absorb and utilize crucial nutrients, while simultaneously ridding the intestinal tract of both putrefaction and pathogenic (i.e., disease-causing) organisms. Here are f~ve of the main functions conducted by the SBO's once they are integsted into the human intestinal system through ingestion as a food supplement
Function #1: Once the SBO's have established their colonies in the digestive tract, they immediately begin eliminating all accumulated putrefaction in which harmful pathogenic organisms thrive. The SBO's have the ability to get in behind putrefaction that has stuck to the walls of the colon and other areas of the intestinal tract, and devour it away. Excess putrefaction is dislodged by the SBO's, and then flushed out of the intestinal tract by normal eliminative processes.
Function #2: The SBO's also go to work breaking down hydrocarbons. With this unique ability, all foods are broken down into their most basic elements, allowing almost total absorption through the digestive system, and thereby dsmatically increasing ovesll nutrition, and rapidly enhancing cellular growth and development. This process also vastly aids the digestive system in the process of elimination, because of the unusually thorough and complete manner in which all foods are broken down by the SBO's. As a major side benefit, constipation is eliminated almost overnight.
Function #3: While in the digestive tract, the SBO's produce specific proteins which act as antigens. These, in turn, stimulate the immune system to produce huge quantities of antibodies over and above that which the immune system would normally have available for use. This vastly increased antibody output dsmatically amplifies the immune system's ability to ward off disease and illness. Plus, it enhances the immune system's ability to battle virtually any disease or illness already afflicting the body. Because of this factor, which we'll explain more in-depth in just a moment, many individuals using EarthFlora have reported amazing healing results from diseases.
Function #4: The SBO's are extremely aggressive against pathological molds, yeast, fungi, and viruses. They quickly engulf and ingest harmful microbes such as Candida albicans, Candida parapsilosis, Penicillium frequens, Penicillium notatum, Mucor racemosus, Aspergillus niger and many others, which would otherwise infect the body and cause serious illness and even chronic degenestive disease. In eliminating pathogenic microbes, the SBO's end up allowing the over-worked immune system to rest and gain strength.
Function #5: The SBO's work in a symbiotic relation to somatic cells. They metabolize proteins for the cells, and simultaneously help rid the cells of toxic wastes, thereby dramatically boosting the normal cellular functions which are the very basis of all human health.
It is chiefly because of these five specific functions of the SBQ's contained in EarthFlora that such dramatic healing and immune-stimulation results are being achieved for people around the world who are quietly using this unique and exclusive new therapeutic food supplement. But the truly fascinating immune-stimulating effects of the SBO's can only be fully realized when one looks at the data produced by the ongoing laboratory tests being conducted by some of the world's top scientists and immune system experts. In the following section, we'll take a closer look at some of this exciting data, which helps more completely explain the how and the why of EarthFlora's incredible effectiveness as a powerful immuno-stimulator for the human body.
[www.explorepub.com]
Immunostimulation by Bacillus Subtilis
Bacillus subtilus as whole cells, spores and cell wall fractions is comparable to or even superior to the patent herbal immunostimulant Echinacea purpurea considering its efficacy.
Classic in-vitro and in-vitro tests for immunstimulation as the granulocyte-smear-method, the carbon-clearance-test, the chemiluminescence-model and the T-lymphocyte-test document the enhancement of the body's unspecific acting defense mechanism.
Recent clinical trials confirm efficacy of Bacillus subtilus in the treatment of chronic recidiving infections of the urinary tract, the respiratory tract of patients with defects and with food allergies.
Recently, an antibiotic compound isolated from a strain of B. subtilis found in the probiotic Biosporin with activity against H. pylori has been reported (31).
We show here that at least two probiotic strains, BiosubtylNT and Subtyl, produce antimicrobial agents (or bacteriocin-like inhibitory substances) that are active against other Bacillus species. We note that certain Bacillus species have been associated with infection of the GIT, but it is also possible that these agents are active against a broader group of species. In any case, production of the antimicrobial agents could be an element in the probiotic effect.
|
GeorgeN v/51/na
Re: Bacillus subtilis supplement to replace natto food? December 11, 2006 02:04PM |
Hi Dean,
Thanks! As I've posted previously, I ate 50g of natto food daily for quite a time, all the while, my digestion deteriorated dramatically. It only took me a year or so to figure out that natto was the source of my problem. I presume it was an allergy or sensitivity to the soy, so have almost excluded all soy from my diet. I've actually thought of making my own with a "starter" of natto and a base of something else. However, this is a much better (& easier) solution.
I'm quite willing to try B. Subtilis and see what happens.
George
Thanks! As I've posted previously, I ate 50g of natto food daily for quite a time, all the while, my digestion deteriorated dramatically. It only took me a year or so to figure out that natto was the source of my problem. I presume it was an allergy or sensitivity to the soy, so have almost excluded all soy from my diet. I've actually thought of making my own with a "starter" of natto and a base of something else. However, this is a much better (& easier) solution.
I'm quite willing to try B. Subtilis and see what happens.
George
|
GeorgeN v/51/na
Re: Bacillus subtilis supplement to replace natto food? December 11, 2006 02:16PM |
|
Emmie
Re: Bacillus subtilis supplement to replace natto food? December 11, 2006 05:52PM |
hello Dean
Thanks for a very interesting and informative post on Bacillus subtilis.
Like George, I'm also happy to try it if I can get it.
In addition to Nattokinase ( 6000FU per day) I'm also drinking about a cup of kefir-milk per day. This is to help my digestion along and to boost my immune system. More info. at www.kefir-grains.com. I've only recently found this product again but I remember having it for a couple of years as a child when my Mum was given a live culture. You pour milk over the kefir 'grains' (which look a bit like cooked cauliflower) and let it sit a day at room temperature then pour off the cultured milk and either drink it straight away or pop it in the fridge. Tastes a bit like buttermilk so you need to enjoy the taste of yoghurt!
The book that comes with the live culture has several pages listing the microorganisms identified in the kefir and the nutritional and chemical composition, but I can't see Bacillus Subtilis there.
Kefir can be consumed by lactose intolerant people because it produces it's own lactase.
Among the many benefits claimed are:
- prevention or controlling of allergies
- reinforces and normalises autoimmune function
- balances intestinal flora and may be an aid for correcting and controlling
- Candida Albicans infection
- daily intake can correct high blood pressure within 3 months
- the friendly bacteria and yeasts biosynthesize Vits B3, B6 including folic
acid
The author (of both the website and the book) has used kefir to treat peptic ulcers, bronchitis, inflammation of the bowel and to improve gall and liver function, among other things. Also skin disorders, like eczema and psoriasis, warts and other skin lesions. When I read the blurb I was astounded at all the claims made but thought it worth a go, especially for IBS and high blood pressure. There appear to be no adverse side effects.
Anyway - sorry to rattle on - I'm now going on the hunt for that Bacillus Subtilis,
thanks again,
Emmie
Thanks for a very interesting and informative post on Bacillus subtilis.
Like George, I'm also happy to try it if I can get it.
In addition to Nattokinase ( 6000FU per day) I'm also drinking about a cup of kefir-milk per day. This is to help my digestion along and to boost my immune system. More info. at www.kefir-grains.com. I've only recently found this product again but I remember having it for a couple of years as a child when my Mum was given a live culture. You pour milk over the kefir 'grains' (which look a bit like cooked cauliflower) and let it sit a day at room temperature then pour off the cultured milk and either drink it straight away or pop it in the fridge. Tastes a bit like buttermilk so you need to enjoy the taste of yoghurt!
The book that comes with the live culture has several pages listing the microorganisms identified in the kefir and the nutritional and chemical composition, but I can't see Bacillus Subtilis there.
Kefir can be consumed by lactose intolerant people because it produces it's own lactase.
Among the many benefits claimed are:
- prevention or controlling of allergies
- reinforces and normalises autoimmune function
- balances intestinal flora and may be an aid for correcting and controlling
- Candida Albicans infection
- daily intake can correct high blood pressure within 3 months
- the friendly bacteria and yeasts biosynthesize Vits B3, B6 including folic
acid
The author (of both the website and the book) has used kefir to treat peptic ulcers, bronchitis, inflammation of the bowel and to improve gall and liver function, among other things. Also skin disorders, like eczema and psoriasis, warts and other skin lesions. When I read the blurb I was astounded at all the claims made but thought it worth a go, especially for IBS and high blood pressure. There appear to be no adverse side effects.
Anyway - sorry to rattle on - I'm now going on the hunt for that Bacillus Subtilis,
thanks again,
Emmie
|
David Price
Re: Bacillus subtilis supplement to replace natto food? December 11, 2006 11:15PM |
Dean:
I may have missed something here, but I thought the primary benefit of Natto was as a powerful and natural anticoagulant?
I can't find anything in the articles which support B. subtilis in providing this benefit.
But it may just be that the image of the Arabs and Camels wiped everything else out!
I may have missed something here, but I thought the primary benefit of Natto was as a powerful and natural anticoagulant?
I can't find anything in the articles which support B. subtilis in providing this benefit.
But it may just be that the image of the Arabs and Camels wiped everything else out!
|
Re: Bacillus subtilis supplement to replace natto food? December 12, 2006 12:26AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 18,881 |
Dean - Very interesting but not surprising since many types bacteria are highly beneficial in maintaining a healthy GI tract as well as increasing protection from pathogens that enter via the stomach. This is just another example of the benefits of using effective probiotics toward that end.
The distinction comes, of course, for what you are intending to treat: the gut/digestive issues or the reducing the risk of forming blood clots by lowering of fibrinogen from the enzyme "nattokinase" produced as a result of the B. subtilis reaction found in the natto food. Two separate paths.
It is apparent that you benefited from the resolution of gut issues and for anyone with intestinal issues or the desire to boost immunity, the GI tract is critical for optimal immune system function. Regardless of afib, everyone should strive for optimal healthy gut tissue. But more importantly, as you have always maintained, gut issues can be a driver of afib events in some cases. It certainly is worth a try and should be highly beneficial.
The focus of the original nattokinase posts was based on finding a safe alternative for the use of warfarin/Coumadin and we know this is accomplished through the use of purified nattokinase enzyme and the actions produced on lowering fibrinogen and raising the PAI-1 inhibitor.
For anti-coagulation, we still need the purified form of the enzyme, Nattokinase.
Jackie
The distinction comes, of course, for what you are intending to treat: the gut/digestive issues or the reducing the risk of forming blood clots by lowering of fibrinogen from the enzyme "nattokinase" produced as a result of the B. subtilis reaction found in the natto food. Two separate paths.
It is apparent that you benefited from the resolution of gut issues and for anyone with intestinal issues or the desire to boost immunity, the GI tract is critical for optimal immune system function. Regardless of afib, everyone should strive for optimal healthy gut tissue. But more importantly, as you have always maintained, gut issues can be a driver of afib events in some cases. It certainly is worth a try and should be highly beneficial.
The focus of the original nattokinase posts was based on finding a safe alternative for the use of warfarin/Coumadin and we know this is accomplished through the use of purified nattokinase enzyme and the actions produced on lowering fibrinogen and raising the PAI-1 inhibitor.
For anti-coagulation, we still need the purified form of the enzyme, Nattokinase.
Jackie
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Darla
Re: Bacillus subtilis supplement to replace natto food? December 12, 2006 02:47AM |
Hi, Dean,
This is fascinating. I have been eating natto daily since you started posting about it, but my body isn't totally happy with it. I'd been into try the bacteria in supplement form -- have you found a number of sources for it? If Europeans are commonly taking it, what companies are producing it overseas?
Darla
This is fascinating. I have been eating natto daily since you started posting about it, but my body isn't totally happy with it. I'd been into try the bacteria in supplement form -- have you found a number of sources for it? If Europeans are commonly taking it, what companies are producing it overseas?
Darla
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GeorgeN v/51/na
Re: Bacillus subtilis supplement to replace natto food? December 12, 2006 03:23AM |
"The distinction comes, of course, for what you are intending to treat: the gut/digestive issues or the reducing the risk of forming blood clots by lowering of fibrinogen from the enzyme "nattokinase" produced as a result of the B. subtilis reaction found in the natto food."
An interesting question is whether any of the nattokinase is produced in the gut by the bacteria residing there.
If this were possible, then the bacteria could serve the funtion of promoting good digestion and lowering fibrinogen.
George
An interesting question is whether any of the nattokinase is produced in the gut by the bacteria residing there.
If this were possible, then the bacteria could serve the funtion of promoting good digestion and lowering fibrinogen.
George
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PeggyM
Re: Bacillus subtilis supplement to replace natto food? December 12, 2006 07:39AM |
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GeorgeN v/51/na
Re: Bacillus subtilis supplement to replace natto food? December 12, 2006 08:27AM |
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PeggyM
Re: Bacillus subtilis supplement to replace natto food? December 12, 2006 10:00AM |
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Sharon Glass
Re: Bacillus subtilis supplement to replace natto food? December 12, 2006 11:40AM |
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PeggyM
Re: Bacillus subtilis supplement to replace natto food? December 12, 2006 12:01PM |
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Dean
Re: Bacillus subtilis supplement to replace natto food? December 12, 2006 12:33PM |
Hi Jackie,
I was hoping there would be a B. Subtilis supplement that would NOT make nattokinase and Vitamin K2 as the B. Subtilis in natto does. This would make it safe for afibbers to take.
What I am really interested in is the strong ability of B. Subtilis to break down nutrients in the small intestine. I believe this to be the secret of my success with the B. Subtilis in my natto and NOT the nattokinase and Vit K2.
My theory is that when I take a daily PPI it reduces my stomach acid so when the food goes into my small intestine it is not fully broken down as with normal stomach acid. So what I am trying to say is because the food is not fully broken down by stomach acid it provides feed for the B. Subtilis in my intestines therefore stimulating more B. Subtilis to grow which in turn breaks down the food even further.
So what I am getting in my small intestine is SUPER ABSORTION OF NUTRIENTS (Mg, K etc) compared to a person with normal stomach acid.
Hope I am making sense here!
The more the food is undigested in the small intestine = the more feed for B. Subtilis = grater numbers of B. Subtilis = greater breakdown of the nutrients = super absorption of nutrients into my blood stream
[users.penn.com]
Most nutrient supplement products are very similar in that they are based upon the premise that the human body is simply not getting enough nutrients from the food it ingests on a daily basis. Therefore, most of today's nutrient supplement products are designed to inundate the body with medium-to-large dosages of nutrients in order to make up for the alleged deficit of nutrients in the food supply.
But this form of nutrient supplementation rarely works well, because the premise it is based upon is patently false. As Dr. Rothschild points out in his recent research report entitled Bio-Active Micronutrient Minerals: Biological Response Modif~ers, "A specific or multiple mineral deficit in a human body usually does NOT imply that there is a corresponding deficit of these minerals in the individual's daily nutrition...lostead, the real problem in such individuals is a CHRONIC ABSORPTION DEFICIENCY (my capitals)
In other words, as a general rule there are plenty of nutrients in the foods we eat, but due to aging, abuse or other factors, our bodies are having a difficult time absorbing these nutrients. So, in reality, flooding the human body with high-dose nutrient supplements is of little benefit, because the whole problem in the first place is the BODYS INABILITY TO PROPERLY ABSORD NUTRIENTS! (my capitals)
What do you think Jackie?
Does B. Subtilis create super absorption of nutrients for me and that is the key to my success with natto food?
I find this topic of food absorption in the intestines fascinating with regards to afib
I suppose it follows on from your last conference topic on invisible Celiac disorder.
Dean
I was hoping there would be a B. Subtilis supplement that would NOT make nattokinase and Vitamin K2 as the B. Subtilis in natto does. This would make it safe for afibbers to take.
What I am really interested in is the strong ability of B. Subtilis to break down nutrients in the small intestine. I believe this to be the secret of my success with the B. Subtilis in my natto and NOT the nattokinase and Vit K2.
My theory is that when I take a daily PPI it reduces my stomach acid so when the food goes into my small intestine it is not fully broken down as with normal stomach acid. So what I am trying to say is because the food is not fully broken down by stomach acid it provides feed for the B. Subtilis in my intestines therefore stimulating more B. Subtilis to grow which in turn breaks down the food even further.
So what I am getting in my small intestine is SUPER ABSORTION OF NUTRIENTS (Mg, K etc) compared to a person with normal stomach acid.
Hope I am making sense here!
The more the food is undigested in the small intestine = the more feed for B. Subtilis = grater numbers of B. Subtilis = greater breakdown of the nutrients = super absorption of nutrients into my blood stream
[users.penn.com]
Most nutrient supplement products are very similar in that they are based upon the premise that the human body is simply not getting enough nutrients from the food it ingests on a daily basis. Therefore, most of today's nutrient supplement products are designed to inundate the body with medium-to-large dosages of nutrients in order to make up for the alleged deficit of nutrients in the food supply.
But this form of nutrient supplementation rarely works well, because the premise it is based upon is patently false. As Dr. Rothschild points out in his recent research report entitled Bio-Active Micronutrient Minerals: Biological Response Modif~ers, "A specific or multiple mineral deficit in a human body usually does NOT imply that there is a corresponding deficit of these minerals in the individual's daily nutrition...lostead, the real problem in such individuals is a CHRONIC ABSORPTION DEFICIENCY (my capitals)
In other words, as a general rule there are plenty of nutrients in the foods we eat, but due to aging, abuse or other factors, our bodies are having a difficult time absorbing these nutrients. So, in reality, flooding the human body with high-dose nutrient supplements is of little benefit, because the whole problem in the first place is the BODYS INABILITY TO PROPERLY ABSORD NUTRIENTS! (my capitals)
What do you think Jackie?
Does B. Subtilis create super absorption of nutrients for me and that is the key to my success with natto food?
I find this topic of food absorption in the intestines fascinating with regards to afib
I suppose it follows on from your last conference topic on invisible Celiac disorder.
Dean
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Dean
Re: Bacillus subtilis supplement to replace natto food? December 12, 2006 12:47PM |
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Todd
Re: Bacillus subtilis supplement to replace natto food? December 12, 2006 01:59PM |
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GeorgeN v/51/na
Re: Bacillus subtilis supplement to replace natto food? December 12, 2006 02:12PM |
For those in the states, I found this:
[www.gemcultures.com]
Thought I might get someCommercial Natto Starter (makes 86 pounds-$11.00 US). I might try just taking some and also seeing what else I could ferment with it. This probably beats standing behind a horse waiting for the right moment.
George
[www.gemcultures.com]
Thought I might get someCommercial Natto Starter (makes 86 pounds-$11.00 US). I might try just taking some and also seeing what else I could ferment with it. This probably beats standing behind a horse waiting for the right moment.
George
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GeorgeN v/51/na
Re: Bacillus subtilis supplement to replace natto food? December 13, 2006 06:19AM |
From: [www.gaia21.net]
Q: Can I just take natto bacillus instead of natto for health benefit?
Yes and no. Some research indicates natto bacillus becomes active in our digestive system and produce vitamin K2 and possibly some other nutrients and enzymes, too. However it might depend upon what kind of food you eat and what kind of intestinal flora you have. Natto on the other hand has full of nutrients and propagated bacillus natto. Besides taking bacillus natto itself could be quite expensive.
Q: Can I just take natto bacillus instead of natto for health benefit?
Yes and no. Some research indicates natto bacillus becomes active in our digestive system and produce vitamin K2 and possibly some other nutrients and enzymes, too. However it might depend upon what kind of food you eat and what kind of intestinal flora you have. Natto on the other hand has full of nutrients and propagated bacillus natto. Besides taking bacillus natto itself could be quite expensive.
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Re: Bacillus subtilis supplement to replace natto food? December 13, 2006 09:11AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 18,881 |
Dean - I'm not knowledgeable enough about the biochemistry of the reaction in the gut of this or any other bacteria to make a comment that it might or might not act as a blood thinner.
What I do know that is valid, though, is what as you have pointed out consistently - the digestive system is the second brain and has far reaching implications to both digestive issues and logically, afib driven by GERD etc.
I've not read his book, but Dr. Michael Gershon's contribution probably is very enlightening on this topic.
"The Second Brain: A Groundbreaking New Understanding of Nervous Disorders of the Stomach and Intestine"
When the intestinal tract cells have been damaged from NSAIDs, alcohol, undigested protein molecules, food allergies or intolerances, toxins, chemicals, drugs, parasites, , etc. they are unable to facilitate the proper absorption of nutrients including the critical electrolytes/minerals we need for proper cardiac cell function. Repairing the gut is the first line defense toward conquering allergies and immune system dysfunction ad well as the physical manifestations such as arthritic pain, allergic symptoms etc.
Dysbiosis is still not recognized as much as it should be by mainstream medicine. In functional medicine circles, the first line of treatment is to remove the culprit and repair the gut tissue and probiotics or helpful bacteria are top on the list... this is where the natto or the B. subtilis would come into play along with other known important friendly bacteria or bowel flora.
The key issue ridding the body of the the toxic condition of a non-functioning or toxin ladened intestinal tract. That is frequently the foundation for many chronic illnesses and we may even be able to include AF in cases where people are plagued by digestive issues that contribute to afib onset.
And going along with lack of proper nutrient absorption, goes all the conditions that are a result of nutritient deficiencies - certainly it could follow that the minerals we need for heart health/function are included, as you point out.
It would be wonderful if we all could be our own 'on-site' nattokinase factories just be consuming B.subtilis but I haven't the knowledge to say if this can work that simplistically or if other mediums must also be consumed to effect the result.
I may decide to add Gershon's book to my ever growing library as this is a really interesting and important topic. The old book, "Death Begins in the Colon" written many years ago has always maintained the critical importance of intestinal health.
Following along from the focus of the CR #54 post on Paleo eating and gluten elimination from diet - it remains clear to me that both grain proteins (gluten/gliaden) and milk proteins (casein) are contributory to intestinal ailments and the resulting and circulating antibodies in sensitive individuals manifest in a very large number of ailments and symptoms....few of which are traced to this very topic.
These manifestations and conditions can be both in the intestine and outside the intestine. That's what makes the topic so compelling as a central focus for much of what 'ails' us.
Thanks for this post.
Be well,
Jackie
What I do know that is valid, though, is what as you have pointed out consistently - the digestive system is the second brain and has far reaching implications to both digestive issues and logically, afib driven by GERD etc.
I've not read his book, but Dr. Michael Gershon's contribution probably is very enlightening on this topic.
"The Second Brain: A Groundbreaking New Understanding of Nervous Disorders of the Stomach and Intestine"
When the intestinal tract cells have been damaged from NSAIDs, alcohol, undigested protein molecules, food allergies or intolerances, toxins, chemicals, drugs, parasites, , etc. they are unable to facilitate the proper absorption of nutrients including the critical electrolytes/minerals we need for proper cardiac cell function. Repairing the gut is the first line defense toward conquering allergies and immune system dysfunction ad well as the physical manifestations such as arthritic pain, allergic symptoms etc.
Dysbiosis is still not recognized as much as it should be by mainstream medicine. In functional medicine circles, the first line of treatment is to remove the culprit and repair the gut tissue and probiotics or helpful bacteria are top on the list... this is where the natto or the B. subtilis would come into play along with other known important friendly bacteria or bowel flora.
The key issue ridding the body of the the toxic condition of a non-functioning or toxin ladened intestinal tract. That is frequently the foundation for many chronic illnesses and we may even be able to include AF in cases where people are plagued by digestive issues that contribute to afib onset.
And going along with lack of proper nutrient absorption, goes all the conditions that are a result of nutritient deficiencies - certainly it could follow that the minerals we need for heart health/function are included, as you point out.
It would be wonderful if we all could be our own 'on-site' nattokinase factories just be consuming B.subtilis but I haven't the knowledge to say if this can work that simplistically or if other mediums must also be consumed to effect the result.
I may decide to add Gershon's book to my ever growing library as this is a really interesting and important topic. The old book, "Death Begins in the Colon" written many years ago has always maintained the critical importance of intestinal health.
Following along from the focus of the CR #54 post on Paleo eating and gluten elimination from diet - it remains clear to me that both grain proteins (gluten/gliaden) and milk proteins (casein) are contributory to intestinal ailments and the resulting and circulating antibodies in sensitive individuals manifest in a very large number of ailments and symptoms....few of which are traced to this very topic.
These manifestations and conditions can be both in the intestine and outside the intestine. That's what makes the topic so compelling as a central focus for much of what 'ails' us.
Thanks for this post.
Be well,
Jackie
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Dean
Re: Bacillus subtilis supplement to replace natto food? December 13, 2006 12:04PM |
Many thanks for your reply!
I will order Dr. Michael Gershon's book about the enteric nervous system as this really interests me.
We seem to come to a brick wall when expressing our theories because we lack the formal knowledge to go further.
Other websites have "guest speakers" who are professionals and knowledgeable in a particular field and so are able to continue with the discussion on difficults theories.
As the Conferrence room is a little slow lately maybe Hans, PC or yourself could introduce a "guest speaker" in a one on one interview and ask them prepared questions that you we on this board could assemble via mutual aggrement.
You could interview, say, Dr Holdsworth about nattokinase with questions prepared by all of us and post the Q and A interview in the Conferrence room.
Only a suggestion! More work for Hans and yourself
Thanks again.....
Dean
I will order Dr. Michael Gershon's book about the enteric nervous system as this really interests me.
We seem to come to a brick wall when expressing our theories because we lack the formal knowledge to go further.
Other websites have "guest speakers" who are professionals and knowledgeable in a particular field and so are able to continue with the discussion on difficults theories.
As the Conferrence room is a little slow lately maybe Hans, PC or yourself could introduce a "guest speaker" in a one on one interview and ask them prepared questions that you we on this board could assemble via mutual aggrement.
You could interview, say, Dr Holdsworth about nattokinase with questions prepared by all of us and post the Q and A interview in the Conferrence room.
Only a suggestion! More work for Hans and yourself
Thanks again.....
Dean
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