Taurine and arrhythmia

Spent most of yesterday, Wednesday, at the ER with sinus tachycardia that started on Tuesday afternoon: bigemini, trigemini again. Last Friday I had the same that started half an hour after taking Taurine after breakfast. This time it lasted 23 hours. From the EKG recording it looks as if Taurine starts a reeentry circuit. It is one clear beat that is folowed with one, two or three light beats and in the sequence that repeats itsself there is a pause when a normal sinus initiated beat is comming during the refractory period.´So the rythm is regular irregular.

On the other hand Taurine will prevent me from having ectopic beats followed by AF in the night when the BP is rising. I have not dared to find out where the limit is but 210/110 at HR=57 is my highest reading so far and then I took Cialis to get the BP down to normal at the same rate. Usually I get AF when the diastolic is more than 90.

My conclusions: Taurine can help, but can create other problems. It definately helps for hypoxia initiated AF but can create reentry circuits with sinus tachycardia as a result. One reason for this might be the very rapidly soluable pills. It is hard to swallow them before they dissolve in the mouth. Are the other types of pills? One can speculate that a shockwave of increasing Tuarine concentration hits the bloodstream. Who knows. That is the other problem. As Taurine is considered a supplement and not a drug thorough research has not been done on how it affects the heart which can cause serious consequences on a heart that already has conduction problems manifested by AF. I have stopped taking Taurine as I consider it to be not safe. I will have an EKG taken next week when I hopefully do not have Taurine in my system anymore and see if there is any difference.

I take 500mg tablets.They are easy to take and never dissolve before swallowing.GNC and Country life are the brand names I use

Gunnar, do you think the trouble you had could be due to taking taurine with Cialis? You are the only poster here who uses Cialis, and also the only one to get this kind of trouble in connection with taurine.
PeggyM

No I do not think so. The way Cialis works is very well defined and the product is extensively tested, PDE-5 blocking. Millions of users. The only effect it should have on the heart is control of BP at a normal range and more oxygenated blood both effects good for the heart.

As far as I have seen Taurine has never been tested on a population with heart conduction problems and I am not the only one that has got the problem with Taurine on this forum. Perhaps some more will step forward with their experiences.

My goal has been to get away from Cialis since it is so expensive but on the other hand to avoid getting an AF attack is worth a lot and that part works.

With Taurine I have been able to be without Cialis for 6 days, then my BP went to high during the night. When I woke up from the pounding heart I did not have any ectopics but the BP frightened me and I was not prepared to take any chances and took a Cialis pill and everything went back to normal.

With L-Arginine I was able to be without Cialis for 2 weeks but unfortunately my stomach did not like it and I had to go through a 28 days cure of Omeprazol.

To be out of AF I have to take Cialis every 3rd day. I am trying to take it on demand but unfortunately I do not always wake up when the ectopics before AF sets in. On the positive side, Cialis with a beta blocker always take me out of AF and it really is an extremly docile method compared to regular anti arrhythmic drugs. No negative side effects whatsoever on the contrary as I do not have any "sore" heart afterwards (possibly LV hypertrophy) and can go on after conversion as nothing ever had happened.

I realize that my problems might be very special, but in view of my 100% positive experience from using Cialis against AF I would like to advice anyone, regardless sex, with ectopics/ AF at night, to give it a try. It is tested and safe. If it works for you, it really is worth every cent. If not, it is still a pleasent experience. A win-win situation.

I have noticed a marked increase in frequency of af when supplementing with taurine too. Guess one size does not fit all.

It is naive to state that Cialis is safe and has no side effects.

All drugs have some degree of side effects and Cialis is no exception. What may seem safe for one patient may not be safe for another with different biochemistry. In fact, one of the more 'rare' side effects of Cialis has to do with causing ventricular arrhythmia.

Readers here considering Cialis or any other drug should do due diligence as to any drug side effects as most drugs have many side effects that may make them unsafe for them.

Jackie

rob p, was your bigeminy and/or trigeminy, or just the "normal" afib that you have gotten before taking taurine?
PeggyM

Typo, [to think i used to be a proofreader], that message should have read,

rob p., was yours bigeminy and/or trigeminy.....

PeggyM

Yes I agree to that all drugs have side effects but at least Cialis has been tested for that, which is not the case for Taurine. Also the way of how Cialis works is well known and very specific where as how Taurine works seems to be rather complex and most reports ends with "more studies are needed". I do not think it is very productive to start a debate about side effects of respective drugs and it is just a way to distract the fact that using supplements that affect the conductive system is risky business as these areas are very much unknown and the consequences could be serious for a person that already has got problems in that area. We are not talking about loosing weight here. It is about the heart.

I am vey much interested in the documentation that states that Cialis can cause arrhythmia as I seem to be dependent on that drug to avoid arrhythmia.

We are all unique individuals, thank God. Taurine may not suit everyone but those of us who have had amazing results from it are not too impressed with your efforts to get us off it. My cardiologist is impressed with the ECG results I have had since taking it (and he knows about these things)!
I have just done a "Google" search on cialis and arrythmia and about 20 sites came up with info on this topic. Anyone who is thinking of trying this supplement should certainly read up on it before hand. I can't imagine any woman wanting to take it! You may be dependent on Cialis to avoid your arrhythmia - I on the other hand am dependent on Taurine. Who is to say that either of us are wrong?

Gunnar,

I don't have any problem with swallowing taurine because I use the powder.

I have noted in several of your posts that you mention some really high blood pressures. You must be aware of how damaging this is to your heart, Afib or not. Also, your risk for stroke increases with these high pressures.

Seems you and your doctors need to find something that will keep your blood pressure in a reasonable range and a steady state.

Marian

I have not said you should not take it only that it did not suit me I got into problems and I am not discouraging those who take it, but I think it is valid to warn others of my experiences and really think through the riscs asociated to take a supplement that is not tested and produced as a medical drug and definitivly not tested for thosw with heart conduction problems especially as Taurine affects the conduction system in the cell. So much is known, but not why and how.

I have also made that googling and did not come up with any research report, just general warnings that persons with a history of heart attack, ventricle fibrillation etc. should consult there phycisian before takíng it and I do not think there needs to be any explaination why.

Hi Gunnar,

I didn't get the impression that you were trying to discourage people from taking taurine, just sharing your experience with this supplement.

I agree that everyone is different and I am one of the unlucky few that can not tolerate taurine. I would really, really like to and have tried several times but can't get passed the third day. It makes me extremely hyper, cranky and jittery. I've shared my experiences, so that if anyone in the future should have some of these side effects, they can see that it occassionally happens.

Hi Gunnar,

"One reason for this might be the very rapidly soluable pills. It is hard to swallow them before they dissolve in the mouth."

For the record, I eat 2 grams of taurine powder, morning and evening. This should be much faster acting than any pills. People also make taurine (as opposed to my cats who must eat it).

George

Hello, Barb. You have not mentioned that taurine gave you bigeminy/trigeminy, so i am assuming it did not. Is that assumption correct?
PeggyM

Hi Marion,
I have presented a theory of the rather odd behavoir of my BP and why Cialis works in the conference room about devices. Go to the end and scroll backwards.
[www.afibbers.org]

I would however like to change one of the conclusions there a little after my experience with Taurine, that I think the reason I end up with AF is not overly stretching of the heart but instead a hypoxic situation in the atria.

The reseach report about sildenfil's (Viagra´s) effec on the heart is also interesting as it says that there is an direct effect of PDE5 inhibition also in the heart, which be the same for Cialis.

Did I miss something? Are you saying Cialis helps afib? I am having the "other" problem that Cialis is meant for (due to afib) so maybe I should look at it?

Hi Peggy,

No, taurine didn't give my bigeminy or trigeminy. It actually did help soothe the ectopics I was taking it for, but then it would make me basically a basket case and that defeated any good I got from it. My symptoms were not nearly as serious as Gunnar dealt with, but I was just pointing out that some people can't tolerate this supplement. I also can't take magnesium (increased ectopics and restless legs) or theanine (increased ectopics). I can take lsv8 for potassium and try to get the others from diet after lots of research.

Off the subject. I see where you guys are having some beautiful, nice weather. Please send some to Texas. The 100+ heat is getting old.

Hi Barb,

Here in Wales we have gone from our very long heatwave to 48hr thunder and lightening storms. I will cheerfully send you a few of these if you want, together with a manic dog who hates it!

Randy, put Cialis into the search function here and catch up on Gunnar's experiences with it.
PeggyM

Barb, thanx for answering that question. I hope we hear from rob p. too. Scuse me if i have forgotten reading your post in the current conference room, but did you post there about your bad experience with Mg supplementation, considering the current topic there, "magnesium - friend or foe"?
PeggyM

PS about weather - maine is having typical maine summer weather, would pass for autumn anywhere else, down to the 50's and sometimes 40's at night, snow in the mountains, 70's in the day. Wish you were here.
PeggyM

Went and looked, you did indeed post about this in the cf, a beautiful, complete and thoro description of the whole situation.
PeggyM

I do not know if it will help you but it sureöy helps me. One pill of Cialis every 2.5 to 3rd day keps mee out of trouble to 100% if I alsso limit my alcohol intake to 1.5 glass of wine. I rarely drink anything with alcohol so that is not a problem. The only downside is that it is a bit expensive.

Gunnar, Just a small caution -- Side effects for Cialis include arrhythmia and fast heart rate-- according to Mayo Clinic listing:

"Check with your doctor immediately if any of the following side effects occur:

Less common

Arm, back or jaw pain; blurred vision; chest pain or discomfort; chest tightness or heaviness; chills; cold sweats; confusion; dizziness; fainting; faintness, or lightheadedness when getting up from a lying or sitting position suddenly; fast or irregular heartbeat; headache; nausea; nervousness; pain or discomfort in arms, jaw, back or neck; pounding in the ears; shortness of breath; slow or fast heartbeat; sweating; unusual tiredness or weakness; vomiting."

They don't define "less common"

Anton