Taurine contra-indicated with aspirin

As a new reader of the Phorum, I have been interested to note how often taurine is mentioned on these threads. I was about to order some online when I noticed the warning, not to be taken with aspirin. I take 100mg aspirin daily as an anitcoagulant because of LAF. I am not on permanent meds but take flec as a pill-in-the-pocket approach. Can anyone tell me why aspirin and taurine shouldn't be taken together? Many thanks for your time, Justine

Hello, Justine. There are at least one thread about this someplace back in this current bb and i think you will find it via the search function. I take both taurine and aspirin myself, and was worried about that warning too. Jackie [our taurine expert] says the warning is about a danger of hemorrhage. Apparently taurine acts as a stomach irritant in some people, and of course aspirin is well known to have this effect. The warnings sound pretty dire but at the time i first saw them i had already been taking both substances for some time without harm that i could detect, so i just kept right on.

That being said, lately something has been giving me a mild intermittent diarrhea [a bad thing for an afibber, diarrhea depletes electrolytes], and i have given up the taurine to see if that could be it. The trouble does seem to be passing off, and the next thing will be to start back taking taurine again and see if it returns.

PeggyM

Hi Peggy, you said that Taurine sometimes acts as a stomach irritant in some people. In what manner other than diarrhea can that show up? Recently I have had a pain in what I would call lthe ower left side, but actually it is almost directly left of my belly button and the lower left rib in my back is also sore. It is not sharp, just aggravating and dull but it eventually goes away. I have increased my water intake. The pain usually comes after I go to the bathroom but mostly after I eat. My bowels seem to be okay.

Sharon, why not use the search function and retrieve the thread where Jackie and me and some other people, can't remember who, were talking about that issue? I have to confess i do not know as much about taurine [plus a whole lot of other things] as Jackie does.
PeggyM

Justine - Here's the link to my post on Taurine so you can see some of the thread along with it, but it is also located in the Conference Room Session 22 at this URL [www.afibbers.org]

[www.afibbers.org]


In the CR session - there was dialog on the aspirin/taurine conflict....following is what was posted. It's best just to read all of the post and all of the referenced articles.

Laura, Peggy and Mike F - About aspirin and taurine

Dr. Braverman says:
"Ulcers: Early studies found that taurine and glycine enhanced the ulcerogenic effect of aspirin and other salicylic acid derivatives such as magnesium salicylate. However, a more recent study by Kimura and colleagues showed that taurine protects the stomach and liver from aspirin-induced irritation under some circumstances. (p. 140)" he goes on
to say.....

" Taurine may elevate stomach acid and increase risk of ulcers, but only in individuals with a tendency toward increased stomach acid. Taking taurine with food, milk, or milk of magnesia will alleviate this problem. Taurine should never be taken with aspirin. p. 141." (Healing nutrients Within)


The use of the Search feature on this BB is invaluable to find references to past posts and information.

Jackie


Go the referenced report by Dr. Smayda - and check the heading Gastroenterology....(around page 17)... He says: ..."In some people, pain relievers classified as non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) such as aspirin and ibuprofen, can cause gastric ulceration.

"...taurine and glycine enhanced the ulcerogenic effect of aspirin..."

"...Taurine may elevate stomach acid and increase risk of ulcers, but only in individuals with a tendency toward increased stomach acid. Taking taurine with food, milk, or milk of magnesia will alleviate this problem. Taurine should never be taken with aspirin..."

That would be glycine as in magnesium glycinate, i believe. Well, if i have been taking Mg glycinate and taurine both, together with 2 adult aspirin every night for all this time and have not got an ulcer out of it as yet, i think i must not be susceptible to this problem.

Anybody else got opinions or ideas on this?

PeggyM

Peggy -

If you are taking the taurine and magnesium glycinate after meals, this protective measure could be the reason why you have not experienced a problem. Iron clad stomach! As I've mentioned before, 2 adult aspirin daily is a large dose and I urge you to be careful.

Jackie

Well, i never do take any supplements or any aspirin either on an empty stomach. Is that what you mean about being careful?
PeggyM

Thank you Jackie and PeggyM for your time in giving me such well-considered repsonses. Can you tell exactly what anounts of K, mg and Taurine have cured your Afib and what type you had? Mine seems almost totally vagal LAF. I have no heart disease, am fit, eat well and am the right weight for age, 53. AF was picked up during a routine health chech 3 years ago. In that time I have gone from 3 epidoes a year to one a month in the last 6 months.l

I can see this resource opening up a whole new world for me as up until now my Lone AF has indeed been a pretty lone place to be. I have asked two GPs if they thought my AF fitted the profile of vagal AF rather than adrenergic and both admitted they did not know what I was referring to. From the reading I have done, especially Coumel's research, it seems this is the first determination to make after diagnosis as it affects the type of meds given. I understand now why I reacted so badly to sotalol and so well to flec. I suppose as Coumel only advanced this idea in the 1980s it may be unknown to some older GPs. I haven't quite worked out yet how not to alienate my doctor by asking him his opinions on aspects of AF he is not familiar with. However, he has referred me on to an electrophysiologist. Can anyone give me advice on how to get the most out of a visit to an electrophysiologis. What should I ask/ not ask and what should I expect? Thanks again, Justine

Justine, have you got Hans' books yet? If not then get them soonest, and subscribe to the Afib Report. You are obviously approaching this problem thoughtfully, and there is a lot of food for thought in those information sources. Once you subscribe to the Afib Report you will have access to the back issues, and in one of those from last spring [i think march or april], you will find the account of how i got rid of my afib, together with dosages, brands, etc. In either the issue after that or the one just before it, i forget which, you will also find George Newman's account of how he did the same thing.

Here in the bulletin board, there is a way you can read many other peoples' stories of how they cured their afib by means other than heart drugs or surgical procedures. Some time ago i stumbled onto a method for keeping track of posts from such people so they could be retrieved via the search function. It is a somewhat clumsy method but the best i can do for the time being. This tracking method i have called The List. When somebody posts saying they got rid of their afib episodes by some means other than the aforementioned heart drugs and surgical procedures, either George or myself posts an answer with the words The List in the subject line. This makes these posts retrievable by putting the words "The List" into the search function, and making sure the only checkbox with a checkmark in it is the one in front of the word Subject.

There are a few of these posts in this present bb, because it has only been open for a few months. A lot more are in the 4th bb, and even more in the 3rd. About 30 individuals in the 3rd bb, and and about 30 more in the 4th. [I count them up once a year, around New Year's day.] Nearly all of these good people have told exactly what it was they did to get rid of afib, including brand names, dosages, and timing. To find out more, you can either put that person's name into an author search to read some of their other posts, or you can usually email them directly, as you can do with anybody here whose name appears in blue letters at the top of their post, just like yours and mine do.

PeggyM

Peggy - no, I meant that your aspirin daily dose is relatively high. I just don't want readers to think it's okay for everyone to take two regular aspirin. Or aspirin and taurine because as the post said, there is some risk of ulcers with taurine alone not mentioning the combination.

Aspirin and other NSAIDs have the tendency to create microscopic holes in the intestine through which larger protein molecules can escape into the blood stream. This is called leaky bowel syndrome. When this happens, food allergies or sensitivities and immune reactions often are the result and people then have symptoms which can include arthritis and the pain for which they take the aspirin in the first place. It's a Catch 22. The leaky gut can be corrected with time and testing. But it's better not to get to that stage in the first place; therefore, the caution about taking aspirin long term....and especially the 2 a day that you mention.

For cardiac reasons, doctors advise the baby aspirin dose of 81 mg. daily and your dose is about 9 times that amount.

Then there is the risk of stomach bleeding etc.

That's the reason for my note to be careful. Your choice but it can be risky.

Jackie

As far as harmful medications go, millions of people regularly take anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDS) like ibuprofen and aspirin. One of the most common side effects is erosion of the stomach, a condition whose symptoms are very similar to those of ulcers. Bleeding and even perforation of the stomach can occur, which will lead to major surgery. Slow bleeding can result in anemia.


Low-Dose Aspirin and Heart Disease

M. Saljoughian, PharmD, PhD
Department of Pharmacy, Alta Bates Summit Medical Center
Berkeley, California
[www.uspharmacist.com]

" Although aspirin has protective benefits, the NSAID is associated with an increased risk of upper gastrointestinal (GI) bleeding. Thus, many patients are concerned about the risks associated with using low-dose aspirin (81 to 325 mg/day) in the prevention of heart disease or stroke. Several new epidemiological studies have recently addressed this issue.2"

2. Sanmuganathan PS, Ghahramani P, Jackson PR, et al. Aspirin for primary prevention of coronary heart disease: safety and absolute benefit related to coronary risk derived from meta-analysis of randomised trials. Heart. 2001;85:265-271.
===

Presse Med. 2003 Nov 22;32(37 Pt 2)17-28.

[Digestive and hemorrhage complications of low-dose aspirin]

Sibilia J, Ravaud P, Marck G.

INTRODUCTION: The gastro-intestinal (GI) toxicity associated with high dose aspirin has been fully demonstrated, but remains poorly elucidated at low doses i.e., less than 500 mg/day. Such toxicity is relatively difficult to study because lesional and/or bleeding GI complications are not always well described in studies. The objective of this review is to compile a documented inventory of GI complications induced by low-dose aspirin.

CONCLUSION: The GI risk exists, starting with the lowest doses and appears to be dose-dependent. The lesional complications consist mainly of erosive lesions, most often gastric, and rarely true ulcers. Cases of bleeding appear more frequent, but generally are minor. This risk should be taken into account by the prescribing physician and the patient should be informed when treatment with low-dose aspirin is initiated.

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]