My Experience with Vagus Nerve Stimulation for AFIB

Having experienced Paroxysmal AFIB for the past 10 years, I am always looking for "Non Invasive" methods to lessen or eliminate this problem.. While I have had some success with a supplement regimen I've followed, I still have AFIB issues around 6 to 8 times a year.
For the past couple of years, I've tried to purchase a product out of England called "Parasym" which was used by Dr. Stavros Stavrakas in a medical experiment at the University of Oklahoma, whereby the participants using this device during a 6 month period had an impressive 85% less AFIB burden than a second group in the experiment that was using a "Sham" product.
Unfortunately, this Parasym device cannot be shipped into the U.S.A.....As I grew impatient not being able to obtain this device which would cost around $800., I was able to recreate the methods used with the Parasym product by purchasing a particular type of "Tens Unit" with an earclip attachment for less than $100. I ran the experiment for 6 months just like the published study, and the results were excellent as follows:
In the 6 months prior to the experiment where I did not use the Tens Unit I had "5 AFIB ATTACKS.......
In the 6 months of doing the experiment with the Tens Unit I had "ONLY 1 AFIB ATTACK"!!!
That's an 80% reduction in AFIB attacks, which I was very happy about.
Whether this was "just luck" or whether my experiment was truly successful I do not know yet...So I will repeat this experiment for another 6 months and hopefully get similar results.
If you have any questions I will try to guide you through the process...Here are links to the original experiment + articles -[www.tctmd.com]...
[pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

For 450 UK pounds (or best offer), you can buy it on eBay
[www.ebay.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2023 05:58PM by susan.d.

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ama1952
I was able to recreate the methods used with the Parasym product by purchasing a particular type of "Tens Unit" with an earclip attachment for less than $100.

Very interesting! Curious what Tens Unit you purchased?

The company is called Tens Pros.
The item I purchased is "InTENSity Micro Combo TENS & Microcurrent Combination Unit" for $69.95...Part#DI9698.....
The reason I chose this unit was because when you scroll down the page + look under customer reviews, there were a few folks that saw the same study I saw and they reported success when they experimented on themselves with it.

Also, I contacted the company and their customer service people were aware of this study for AFIB and were helpful in answering questions I had about it.

George, here is the link to the item I purchased -[www.tenspros.com]

I think it's possible we could help a lot of AFIB sufferers with this item. As with any good experiment, the results need to be replicated over + over again to establish that they are for real, so I am in the process of experimenting on myself for another 6 months.

If you have any more questions I'd be glad to try to help.

I think we've seen mention of this approach here before, meaning attaching a TENS unit to the earlobe.

Actually, it involves attaching a tens unit to the "Tragus".which connects to the Vagus nerve...
In the study done at U. of Oklahoma medical, the "sham group" had it attached to the earlobe, which does not connect to the Vagus nerve.

Okay, where do they attach the electrode in the test group?

Ama1952’s first link has a photo of where the electrode clips on.

[en.m.wikipedia.org]
?? Is this where you clip your device on?

Another good study
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov].



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2023 05:07AM by susan.d.

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Carey
Okay, where do they attach the electrode in the test group?

Here are photos of the sham and treatment group placement. As Ama mentions, the treatment is on the tragus and sham on ear lobe.

Ama,

So the study (for others, the full study text is here), it says "In both groups, stimulation was delivered at a frequency of 20 Hz and pulse width of 200 μs, while the stimulation amplitude was individually titrated to 1 mA below the level that caused mild discomfort." Reading the manual of your device, I assume you did it in constant mode at 20 Hz and pulse width of 200 μs. Then you increase channel intensity till it is slightly uncomfortable & then back it off just a bit?

Since the TENS device can be used for pain, thought I'd try it out for that on her. Do you have any knowledge or good links to how it is used for pain control?

Thanks so much for bringing this to our attention!! Your other post & device look interesting also. For that, you probably need to be in Israel at the moment??

To the Tragus on the right ear.

Thanks for noting that other study...

With the Tens unit I'm using there are two points of contact:
1. First point is the earclip that attaches to the Tragus of the right ear...

2. Second point is an electro pad which I place on my upper right arm to complete the circuit.

George,

You assumed correctly. I followed the same guidelines as used in the study:
Frequency- 20 hz
Pulse width- 200us
Stimulation amplitude- 1 Ma below mild discomfort (Some days the mild discomfort level changed a bit so I would need to increase or decrease this level at times)

I've never used the Tens unit for pain so I really don't know much about that.

On the CardiaCare device I've tried contacting the manufacturer in Israel with questions I had, but they never answered back.
In Dec. 2022 they announced an agreement for this product to be marketed from a firm based in India called Dr. Reddy's Laboratories. Here is the link for that news- [www.kktv.com]

This sounds promising. Just a note though—if you have a pacemaker they tell you to avoid Tens units—at least when placed that close to the pacemaker.

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Daisy
This sounds promising. Just a note though—if you have a pacemaker they tell you to avoid Tens units—at least when placed that close to the pacemaker.

That’s why I stopped using my Tens.

This sounds promising! A bit of googling alludes HRV could improve too. I have abysmal HRV...

Just tried to buy that device but they don't ship to Canada. Any suggested similar ones in Canada, or what to look for in a unit? Good price would be nice, specialty stuff like this tends to cost 4X in Canada. I've looked on Amazon.ca and prices are reasonable, but none mention frequency range nor pulse width and don't include ear clips...

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SamIAm

Just tried to buy that device but they don't ship to Canada...

The ebay seller won’t ship to Canada? Shame.

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SamIAm
This sounds promising! A bit of googling alludes HRV could improve too. I have abysmal HRV...

Just tried to buy that device but they don't ship to Canada. Any suggested similar ones in Canada, or what to look for in a unit? Good price would be nice, specialty stuff like this tends to cost 4X in Canada. I've looked on Amazon.ca and prices are reasonable, but none mention frequency range nor pulse width and don't include ear clips...

Will this guy ship to Canada? [www.ebay.com] No ear clips, but TENS ear clips are also available on eBay.

Thanks GeorgeN. That one doesn't ship to Canada either... It's like we live in Igloo's up here or something and only get package delivery by Moose.

I am finding in the questions on the Amazon ones some answers about pulse width and frequency (for this one):

Tens 7000 Digital
(1) pulse rate is 2 to 150 Hz, 1 Hz step (however, burst mode can go 0.5 Hz to 5 Hz)
(2) pulse width 50 to 300 Us microseconds, 10 us/step

Even found an ear clip that specifcially says it works with that that unit.

Does this setup sound like it could work similarly as the Tenspro?

Thanks!

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SamIAm
Thanks GeorgeN. That one doesn't ship to Canada either... It's like we live in Igloo's up here or something and only get package delivery by Moose.

Funny!

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SamIAm
Does this setup sound like it could work similarly as the Tenspro?

It does as I read it. I believe this is the manual for the unit [cdn.shopify.com]

Great, think I'll give this a try!

Isn't vagus nerve stimulation worthless for "vagal type" afibbers?

Regardless of whether it is different for vagal/non vagal, there's studies showing it increases HRV which, at least as I understand, is a good thing for the heart's electrical system in general...

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susan.d
For 450 UK pounds (or best offer), you can buy it on eBay
[www.ebay.com]

Fine print: Won't ship to US either.

Why is the question? Might cut into the profitable pharma and procedures we have in the US?

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KingFizzy
Fine print: Won't ship to US either.

If you search reship UK to USA you'll find companies that will give you a UK address to ship to & then they'll ship to US.

Same for USA to Canada.

When a family member was in the military, some businesses would not ship to the APO (deployed military) address & I used a reship company for this purpose (of course I could have had the stuff shipped to me in the US and done the same, but this was easier for me, though more expensive).

The study does not distinguish between "vagal type " affibers, and non vagual type affibers. It only mentions "paroxysmal type" affibers, which is a catagory I fall into....

Also, I didn't mention before that I had recommended this to my nephew, who also suffers from "paroxsymal" afib, and over the past few years he gets at least quadruple the amount of afib attacks than I do in a typical year. Now he is quite busy working + raising a family, so he was unable to "measure" his results as precisely as I did when he did his first 6-month trial using my method.

What he did report to me was that the amount of afib attacks he received was "way less" than he typically gets and that he continues to use the tens unit as he was quite pleased with his results on the first go-around.

In your case are you doing it daily for one hour? And what mode do you use? Might changing the frequency or duration help?

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Pompon
Isn't vagus nerve stimulation worthless for "vagal type" afibbers?

This is a good question, though most Afibbers are “mixed.” I had had extensive autonomic testing though, and my vagal tone was very high so I always did question whether vagus nerve stimulation would be helpful or would exacerbate the problem. I could sometimes terminate an episode by increasing sympathetic tone through aerobic exercise.

Daisy, where does one go to get extensive autonomic testing done? What kind of doctor would you see? I asked my cardiologist about my very low heart variability, and he was like, your heart rate is low when you rest and high when you exercise, that's plenty variable, lol... I think I even asked my electrophysiologist about it and he seemed off the mark too. I have extremely low HRV for my age, 41 years old and generally 20ms on apple watch, and would really like to actually talk to someone specifically knoweldgable in this area...

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SamIAm
Daisy, where does one go to get extensive autonomic testing done? What kind of doctor would you see? I asked my cardiologist about my very low heart variability, and he was like, your heart rate is low when you rest and high when you exercise, that's plenty variable, lol... I think I even asked my electrophysiologist about it and he seemed off the mark too. I have extremely low HRV for my age, 41 years old and generally 20ms on apple watch, and would really like to actually talk to someone specifically knoweldgable in this area...

I have Dysautonomia and was a patient of an autonomic specialist who did the testing. Unfortunately, there are not many of them and they generally have long wait lists generally. You can find a list of them here: [www.dinet.org]

Thanks Daisy, will look through some of these, even some in Canada.

I've got my TENS unit coming in a few days. Does anyone know if it is left or right ear it is supposed to go on or maybe alternate? I read somewhere that it was the left to avoid some cardiac complication when on the right, but can't seem to find that again...

Yes, I do it for 1 hour each day.

During my first 6 month trial I missed only 1 day of doing it. In the experiment of U. of Oklahoma Medical participants could miss up to 4 hours each month and that was considered acceptable.

The mode I used on my unit was called "Normal" mode.

I never changed the frequency or duration.....Somewhere, I recall reading that stimulating the Vagus Nerve too strong or for too long could actually cause an AFIB attack, so I stuck to the guidelines of the experimental group.

In the study at U. of Oklahoma Medical it was all done on the right ear.

ama1952, is it one hour in a single session? What do you do during it, just sit and read perhaps?

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Pompon
Isn't vagus nerve stimulation worthless for "vagal type" afibbers?

I think your statement is generally true, in the acute sense. Here is a list of some acute vagal stimulation approaches. Mostly I've not had success trying them over the years. One of the items on the list is "diving reflex" or cold water on the face. As a afibber with vagal triggers, I have had some (but not 100% of trials) success with submerging my body up to the head in cold water ~58 F/14.5 C till I converted in 10 minutes on one episode. All this being said, I look at the TENS vagal stimulation more as balancing the autonomic nervous system as opposed to an acute approach. Other things I put in this category include slow breathing, meditation, HRV stimulation & so on. I've been working my way through a book on the topic and learning about Stanley Rosenberg's "Polyvagal Theory." We shall see, but I see little down side other than some money and time into trying the TENS approach.

I usually sit at my computer reading topics of interest...

But I also have done it many times while preparing my meals, or sitting + eating...

If you're going to move around while doing it, you'll be using up a 9 volt alkaline battery, which lasts roughly between 2-3 weeks....

If you're going to sit still while using it, you can connect it to an electrical outlet and save money on batteries.

Also- Yes, it is used for 1 hour in a single session.

Where is the second lead placed? I didn't see this in any of the articles, though did come across a video (for something besides afib) placing it on the back of the shoulder. Is one an anode and one a cathode and does it matter which one goes where?

So the unit comes with a few square patches with a white lead...

I put the square patch on my right upper are between the elbow + shoulder...

The ear clip attaches to the red lead....

The white patch attaches to a black lead....

Not sure which is anode or cathode but if you follow my instructions it will work.

I've had some acupuncture too, with electric stimulation. I don't know what was stimulated, there were some needles here and there (neck, wrists...), but they did nothing.

Acupuncture with or without electrical stimulation is really based on a "totally different set of principles" from the Tens Unit I refer to in this post.

I have used acupuncture (with + without electrical stimulation) as well as acupressure in the past years trying to deal with Afib problems and they had never worked for me.

I know it's off topic but somehow related. Some of you people might be interested and also comment
[www.drmegpatterson.com]

Hello Ama1952,
I just bought the unit and it has arrived.
May I take you up on your kind offer to guide me through it?
I hope we are allowed to post our telephne numbers.
My phone number is [redacted]
Thanks in advance,
Lynn



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2023 11:06PM by Carey.

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Lynn Penner
Hello Ama1952,
I just bought the unit and it has arrived.
May I take you up on your kind offer to guide me through it?
I hope we are allowed to post our telephne numbers.

Lynn

My suggestion, for your protection, is to PM Ama with your phone number and edit and delete the phone number from your post. Otherwise the public can know your number and you might get many unwanted calls.

Hi Lynn,

Saw your message + I will try to contact you during the upcoming week. I have written down your phone number so you can remove it from your post. I agree with GeorgeN that it's not a good idea to leave it published since there are some bad people out there.

In case this person might not return soon, Carey or Shannon, would you do the honors. If the OP insists, it can always be added once again.

Done.

Folks, if you want to communicate directly with another individual here, use a private message (PM). You can do that by clicking the "PM" link just to the right of their name at the top of a post. If you post personal info here on the forum like phone or email address, it's visible to the entire world because you don't have to be a member here to read posts, and spammers and scammers absolutely do scan forums like this to harvest personal info.

This is absolutely fascinating! This is exactly what I have been wondering about throughout my entire journey of Atrial Tachycardia! I just ordered the TENSPro and will connect with ama1952 once it arrives! The suggestions for general Vagal Nerve Stimulation are also excellent and appreciated. What an amazing group you are! Thank you so much!

For the future, I'm linking Megan's post here where she describes here encouraging reduction in symptoms with initial use of the TENS device.