Hi folks,

Well I stopped all boozing for 10 days and felt absolutely no better and if anything worse as regards ectopy frequency and anxiety. No problem to NOT drink I might add, although that cocktail hour abstinence did hurt a bit!

Anyway, on Tue evening, I 'caved in' and imbibed a bottle of quality red, and during the hours thereafter (evening, night, and morning up until 10 am) not ONE ectopic........ I usually get 20-100 per day that I notice. I felt great and RELAXED... Is this one of my main issues I wonder? Relaxation? I'm due to start pilates meditation and breathing in the new year to aid my relaxation. I'm still a little baffled as to how some good red can bring me the undoubted benefit which it does.............. Maybe it lubricates my ailing ion channels!!

Mike F.

Hello, Michael

In my case stress and tension have EVERYTHING to do with bringing on afib and ectopic beats. The afib may not always occur during the period of stress, but often after the stress has subsided. Damage to the body from stress makes us susceptible to numerous triggers. We afibbers are very vulnerable people. That is why it is so hard to discern specific patterns of cause and effect.

I try to think "calmness and slowness" as I go through the day. I try steering clear of people, settings and activities that make me tense. After awhile you will slowly become aware of people and situations that make your body tense up and you will know to remove yourself from the situation or step back mentally/emotionally from it. Stepping back is hard to do, but I believe, the goal (see next paragraph). I seek out people and places that make me feel calm and relaxed.

As a child I lived, as many children do, as an unknowing "victim" of the subtle, damaging behavior of family members and a subtle, damaging family situation from which , I obviously could not remove myself - even if I had had the insight into the psychodynamics of those early years. It wasn't until I was older and began moving about outside the family, that I realized that my family was not the healthy and typical family that I had assumed that it was. The sense of helplessness or vulnerability is undoubtedly carried with us into adulthood. Interesting how we feel "helpless" and "vulnerable" when afib strikes? With professional help and an attitude of mindfulness, it is possible to get a handle on this.

I believe that stress (emotional, mental and physical) causes innumerable chemical changes in the body that damage the body. I think that stress is at the root of most, if not all, the discussion of microbiological, neurological, etc. components of afib, ectopic beats. I do, however, believe that the body can repair itself given the proper conditions. Maybe not 100%, but close to that.

The time to stop further damage is now.

Just my personal insights..not very scientific, I know.

Carol

Mike,

It has been my experience that the fib often doesn't start until 12 - 24 hours after the vino tinto, on one occassion it was more like 48 hours.

Mike and Carol--

I am quite inclined to second Carol's thoughts. I know from your previous submissions that both of you had stressful childhoods (to state it mildly).

I myself experienced at least one traumatic incident as an infant and grew up in a dysfunctional family. The result for me was a lifetime of very troubling social anxiety which, as late as in my forties, devolved into generalized anxiety and panic anxiety and eventually resulted in near-extinction of the anxiety reaction.

Today I am virtually free of anxiety. My remnants of my disorder (officially described as post-traumatic stress disorder) are occasional nightmares, a low startle threshold, and very occasional moments of irrational fear of the dark.

I have spent a lot of time dealing with this in therapy and am now a graduate student in counseling psychology (so that of course I now know everything and have personally experienced every disorder about which I have ever read).

My point is that people like us have to take very seriously the task of managing stress. Afib will hopefully remain at bay so long as we do so and we manage our diets well and take our supplements.

Regarding alcohol, I would like to point out that there is a critical tradeoff point. A small amount of alcohol (say a single glass of wine) may be a very good way to relieve a small accumulation of stress. The problem arises when alcohol is used more than very moderately, as it then becomes a trigger. I have decided not to use alcohol as a stress-reducer and now drink only very occasionally and in quite limited quantity.

I would point out to Carol that there is a very useful discussion now in the Conference Room which deals with the genetic predisposition to afib, the lifestyle factors which contribute to it and the discipline needed (and displayed by many who write here) to keep it at bay.

John S.

Some of my episodes in the past have, like yours, come almost 48 hours after drinking red wine (especially Italian reds). My acupucturist told me last year that a lot of food allergies do not show up immediately; that many manifest themselves after 24-48 hours. Did you give up wine? I haven't had any since April 8/03. I do miss my occasional glass of champagne, otherwise it's not a big deal.
Cheers, RK

Carol,

I totally identify with everything you said about stress and afib and trying to emphasize calmness and slowness throughout the day. I definitely believe stress is behind my afib, reflux, low blood sugar, and probable adrenal disfunction, too. I've, also, constantly try to avoid stressful situations and people even before my afib ever began. I have avoided my sister during my whole adult life. And recently I find I must also limit the time spent with my mom, who, although being a good mother, is unfortunately a great stress on me. I find that I must slow my body and mind down constantly, even with as simple a thing as slowing my walking pace. I often put a smile on my face because that, in itself, seems to relax me. I also keep telling myself that absolutely nothing is really too important. I never heard anyone describe their need for, and attempt to achieve calmness in a way which so closely matches my own experience.

Thanks.

Lorraine

Lorraine,

I find that if I take "breathers" or pauses to collect myself and breath deeply and gain calmness between different activities, it helps a lot. It is kind of like the way periods and commas function in writing and reading and rests function in music ! I sometimes just like to sit in the car in a parking lot after driving - it is so restful!!

Walking alone in a natural (people freee) setting - deep woods, fields, beaches -really restores my inner calm.

I am now changing my immediate environment to achieve more calm. After years of living with formal antiques in formal, but beautiful rooms, I am changing the house around. I want it more "womb like." I want fewer stiff antiques and more comfortable, worry free, furniture. I was brought up surrounded by ancestral furniture that one had to tip toe around. I had admonitions drummed into my head from birth about being careful of the antiques (more careful of the antiques than of people!) and so all these THINGS have negative associations. I am jettisoning a lot of the straight back chairs and making every room totally warm, comforting and inviting - filled with creature comforts - throws to wrap up in , good reading lights, sink- into reading and lounge chairs. Even a nice leather recliner - a real no- no in my background.

Oops! Pushed the post button by mistake.

Well, not much to add except that I am on a quest to cultivate totally comforting surroundings that calm and relax and sooth. Paradoxically, the real calm comes from within surrounded by fewer possessions :-) But, since I am a highly visual person (I am told that all my senses are super sharp), I guess my surroundings do count alot.

Interesting that I , too, had to stop seeing my sister, my only sibling, who was "bad news." I never felt relaxed, loved demonstratably, accepted or comfortable growing up in my wasp family. (My sister ruled the "roost.")
My mother was kind of non-existent, off in her own world, dealing with a bad marriage and a crazy family heirarchy.

It is good to compare notes and learn from others like you, Lorraine.

Carol

Carol,

I think it is great that you are changing your surroundings to accomplish a more comfortable surrounding. While I was reading your post, it dawned on me why I didn't go out of rhythm while on my trip and eating very poorly. LAUGHTER!!!! I was surrounded by good friends, and laughter from the gut. Why I mention that, is because when we built our home, we designed it to accommodate a pool and game table and shuffleboard, so when we had friends over, we could create an atmosphere of comfort and fun. A roaring fire in the fireplace, a good game of pool, and laughter with friends and family; it doesn't get better than that.

Richard

Mike,

I had a similar experience when I abstained (more than once), so I know that alcohol isn't a trigger for me - unless I have more than about 5 units, in which case there is a risk of AFIB.

But I would agree completely with Carol and the others. My hiatus hernia, Afib, palpataions, black-outs (twice) and shingles (once) were all ways that my body was trying to find to tell me it was under prolonged stress. Up until my first Afib attack I choose not to listen. Then it got my attention!

I'm curious that you're due to start breathing in the New year. You must have some lungs! Seriously I'm not sure why you're waiting - it's really easy and you can often feel immediate benefits. I have sort of graduated to the 'insight meditation' approach now, which combines meditation with deep attention to the breath. That and quitting my job to work for myself, have been the biggest effects in reducing epiosdes, and, together with Mg have given me some really hope that it may not necessarily be an inevitable path to persistent AF.

However you achieve it, skilled relaxation is going to ameliorate a lot more than the AF.

Good luck with the breathing - let me know what its like.

David

Guys and gals,

Thanks for all the input. I will NOT go over 4 units per evening on those 4 or 5 evenings upon which I will imbibe.

Carol,

Your discussion about your home struck a chord with me..... very much. I have a number of such antique furniture items myself. In fact, I've historically been EXTREMELY anally retentive and fussy about my houses. I had the one I'm in now built about 2 years ago, and it now appears to me (and others) like a show home with far more emphasis on the 'show' than the 'home'! It is a materialistic manifestation of my perfectionistic obsessive nature. And I am quietly craving an old crumbly home with..... warm colours (instead of hardwood, cream, granite, and stainless steel) and old couches (instead of expensive cream ones). My girlfriend and other friends always feel terrified when in my house in case something gets marked......... Jeez, I'm thinking more and more these days why worry and fret about such things......

David,

You will perhaps be relieved to hear that I have been breathing for the last 42 yeears! At least in some manner or other at any rate. I would, however, like to learn how to breathe better - as in more fully, deeply, slowly, and relaxingly. Hence the pilates course in early Jan 04.

Mike F.

Carol

Your post really hit home with me. Formal home with stuffy family heirloom antiques. I used to decribe our family house (note not home) as the mausoleum (sp). It was cold and seemed dark and damp. It reminded me of death. Their was no life, just worry and wipe your feet, don't touch this and don't put your cup down there. I should have been glad to inherit a lot of it - but since my Dad died a couple of years ago I have hated having to care for them and they all have that feeling of death and memories. Now my mother has passed away too and more will be coming. I have just moved house and been making some painful decisions. I got a valuer round and sold some of the heirlooms ( I was guilt racked for days - then I found out my sister and brother were thinking along the same lines). We are now thinking of selling the fishing collection - what are we going to do with 18th and 19 th century fishing reels and split cane rods some over 30 feet long, with boxes and boxes filled with old tins of feathers and hooks and fly tying equipment. It all takes high maintenence. Its time to put the memories where they belong. Not live with them daily.

I've painted my living room yellow - its so warm. I've put a neutral wool carpet on the floor and a varnished wooden floor on the dining room floor and am going to get two big swallow you up sofas with matching swallow you up armchairs. The coal/peat fire lets the room breathe and gives a natural warm focus. The furniture will functional, not showy, with no porcelein to worry about with the cat and the children. The atmosphere is to be warm and homely with the focus on relaxation and enjoyment. No worries about the hot cup leaving rings on the mahogany.... Where did that life get my folks - worry, divorce, what will the neighbours think, ill health, no holidays, no new things, a healthy bank account that had to be left for a rainy day and death..... They took none of it with them and never enjoyed it when they had it. Maybe I missed something, but I don't think so.

Fran

Listen guys, it's great to hear about you chucking stuff out. As someone who came out of a divorce with next to zilch, I quite like the idea of a few heirlooms..... if there's anything you're throwing away, just let me know!

I promise not to be too fussy about it looking after it too - I've spent a lifetime trying, and failing miserably.

Hey, we could set up an LAF - E-bay!!

Carol -

I didn't grow up with heirlooms or have to worry about not damaging things, but I have always seemed to have too many things around - furniture, objects -- so when we built a house in Crete it was a pleasure to leave it as uncluttered as possible - with cool tiled floors and stucco walls, and just letting nature do the decorating by having many windows and double doors open to the lovely landscapes. I find this very soothing and relaxing.Also, we have no TV or radio there and it helps not to hear the news.

Although I would love to take solitary nature walks in RI where we live, I never do because living in Manhattan for many years left me with a concern for safety and a feeling of vulnerability in isolated areas, even though my neighborhood is a very good one.

By the way, my sister is also domineering (and a narcissist) and is my only sibling. And my mother was also preoccupied by a bad marriage (which is probably all too common).

I've been trying to breathe deeply, too, but my only problem with it is that it calls my attention to my breathing, which I try to avoid to keep my mind off afib! But I believe after a while this deep breathing becomes so natural that it doesn't have to be focussed on.

Lorrraine

Fran,

David is right about E-bay..... at the very least as a good outlet for the fishing tackle you mentioned - I would think that it would do VERY well on E-bay.

Loved the above posts about peoples' lives and homes etc. Very revealing and enjoyable.

Mike F.

Lorraine,

Here is something that I have hit upon that works for me:

For breathing: sit quietly, close your eyes, breath in comfortably and when you breath out , exhale long and very slowly. Pause "at the bottom" of the cycle so that most all the air is comfortably out of your lungs. Pause and relax and enjoy the restful pause. Each time you exhale and especially at the bottom pause, relax your muscles from your head, neck, etc. down the body bit by bit. Let the energy drain out of your muscles.

While doing this I sometimes have a mental image of the sound and motion of surf on a beach. Like so much of nature, it is circular and rhythmical.


Carol

Mike,

Take a look at my breathing exercise posted today to Lorraine.

Carol

Carol -

Sounds good. I'll try it!


Lorraine