Target heart rate for exercise

The below link is guidance for post ablatee wanting to know how far they can push themselves.

The following is an estimate given by the American Heart Association for target heart rate numbers for adults ages 45 to 70:

45 years: 88 to 149 beats per minute
50 years: 85 to 145 beats per minute
55 years: 83 to 140 beats per minute
60 years: 80 to 136 beats per minute
65 years: 78 to 132 beats per minute
70 years: 75 to 128 beats per minute


[uihc.org]

Thank you for sharing this info! Good to have.

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colindo
The below link is guidance for post ablatee wanting to know how far they can push themselves.

The following is an estimate given by the American Heart Association for target heart rate numbers for adults ages 45 to 70:

45 years: 88 to 149 beats per minute
50 years: 85 to 145 beats per minute
55 years: 83 to 140 beats per minute
60 years: 80 to 136 beats per minute
65 years: 78 to 132 beats per minute
70 years: 75 to 128 beats per minute


[uihc.org]

Looks very conservative, IMO, but likely a good indication regarding a "safe zone" while exercising.

Too much gap between the highs and lows to be of any value.

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Ken
Too much gap between the highs and lows to be of any value.

If the American Heart Association heart rate numbers are of no value where then can we get numbers that are of some value?
People who have had an ablation need some guidance, at least during the blanking period.

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colindo
If the American Heart Association heart rate numbers are of no value where then can we get numbers that are of some value?
People who have had an ablation need some guidance, at least during the blanking period.

This is based on my afib experience, not studies. I've posted about Zone 2 as a limit a number of times. In the second paragraph of this post, I have a number of references to Zone 2. From an energy generation standpoint, this is purely aerobic. I have found it to be "safe" from an afib trigger perspective. A simple way is nasal breathing, in general, you should not be above Z2 if nasal breathing. Another breathing approach, if you are talking to someone on the phone while exercising, you should be easily able to talk for a long time without issue, however the person you are talking to will know you are exercising by how your breathing sounds. Lastly is Phil Maffetone's MAF method. It is heart rate based, but your heart rate may not be a good guide right after an ablation. MAF is 180-age, with some deducts if on meds. 5-10 BPM as I recall, it is spelled out in the links in my post.

I think the upper limit, is what matters. MAF for a 70 year old is 110 BPM vs 128 in your table. If it were me, I'd use the breathing metric as it says you are not exceeding your oxygen requirement, so most likely in the aerobic Zone. Higher Zones are more stressful. In the linked Iñigo San Millán interviews, he notes there is a lot of mitochondrial benefit to training at this intensity.

Again, I'm winging this. I think what I'm suggesting should be safe for most people. I'm not saying that if you do what Carrey did, you'll have harm, I think this is just a safe way to go about it. Also, for emphasis, I think that breathing may be a better guide than heart rate soon after an ablation.

{edit} Also I wrote this to respond Collin's immediate post ablation question. What I've noticed is that, for me, the exercise trigger is the product of duration times intensity. Meaning long duration, high intensity can be a trigger for me. Long duration lower intensity Zone 2 is OK. I can also do short duration very high intensity, like Tabatas (in my case I have a 90's version Schwinn Airdyne (fan or air bike). I do a routine with 8 rounds of 15 to 20 seconds as hard as I can and 10-15 seconds slow. I put a 3 minute warm up and cool down on either side of this. I'm fine with this, and am putting this in the post to say I don't just do Zone 2. Personally, I would not do this soon after an ablation, as I think it is more likely to trigger something. It also may be risky for those with an adrenergic trigger.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2023 08:18AM by GeorgeN.

George, I'd like to thank you for the good advises you gave here several times regarding exercise. For me, you're perfectly right about zone2 and nasal breathing. I'm 65, 120bpm is the threshold for me. I'm more likely having AFib at rest if I've exercised above this threshold for more than some short minutes.
We're all different, as often said here, but it seems one other crucial thing fo me is to keep my blood glucose level as stable as possible. Peaks and lows, despite staying in the "normal" range (no diabetes), are among my triggers for AFib.

Thanks George,

I just found this pdf from [www.google.com]
Which i think is much about what you are saying.

I think I would start doing just the 30 minute continusious exercise and no weights, keeping an eye on my heart rate.

Would you like to comment.

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colindo
Would you like to comment.

Yes, the same thrust as my post.

To me, it's all about the heart, and it speaks for itself.

My normal resting HR at age 70 is between 46-55, depending on my sleep and general heart crankiness due to my AF. As I have reported recently, I went for a very slow walk on the evening of the second day post-ablation back in July. At most my HR ought to have been 'post-elevated plus...', so let's call it 85 BPM plus exercise-induced cardiac stress response. For most of us former Greek God athletic types, walking adds between 20-25 BPM, more if walking aggressively.

So, adding 20-25 to my post-ablation NSR rate of about 85 would have put me between 105-110, which at my sedate rate would have been entirely expected. Instead, I was more like 123-133, quite a bit higher. This suggested to me that doing what I was doing was not a good idea. Furthermore, I ought to have reacted to the indication from my Galaxy watch by backing off, maybe sitting curbside for a few minutes, and then shuffling directly back home.

My heart speaks to me. I get lots of feedback about its state of contentment or unease. I know when I am in AF, or about to be. I know when my heart reverts and I soon feel normal. I didn't feel right shuffling along when I glanced at the watch and saw 117, then 129, then 132...and rising. To me, all the modeling and formulae in the world of science don't have the impact on me that my heart does by itself, on its own behalf, and that is by showing me what my HR is at any one time. Higher than normal rates mean the heart is under duress. That's the last thing you should impose on it in the days after an ablation.

One other item that is related: Sports athletes who are well-coached and self-disciplined know that they should check their waking HR each morning. This number tells him/her, and his/her coach, whether to take a pass that day, do normally scheduled training, or whether to work extra hard if that extra effort would really help in preparation. If one's waking HR runs between 38-42 after good sleep, no stress, no over-training, etc, and one day it is 46-52, that's a warning. It should be heeded. Just light effort that day, or take the day off, or go for a walk to clear the head. Pounding out a high intensity workout that day is a mistake as surely as going on a bender would be and staying up all night would be.

Ya gotta listen to your heart!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2023 06:30PM by gloaming.

Thank you all for posting your input. It's helpful to know what works for you all. I'm nearing the end of my blanking period. When I let my heart rate go over 115-120, it sets off hours of tachycardia and/or SVT. If I over-exercise (my heart), even if I don't feel tired, I will have several days of tachycardia. It's a challenge to work up slowly when I feel I can physically handle it. Sounds like I need to experiment and find a good pace that works better for me.

Regarding the chart that colindo posted, the link says: "Cardiovascular exercise (also called aerobic exercise) is especially effective in keeping your heart healthy and reaching your target heart rate. This specific type of exercise gets your heart beating fast for several minutes at a time.

Target heart rate is defined as the minimum number of heartbeats in a given amount of time in order to reach the level of exertion necessary for cardiovascular fitness, specific to a person’s age, gender, or physical fitness."

Not clear to me, but it seems for me at age 77, my range is - 75 to 128 bpm. So what exactly does this mean? At least 75 for any cardiovascular fitness benefit and a max of 128 for safety? It seems that my max HR is 125 and I can't get it any higher, that's on a 15% incline on a treadmill walking fast at 3.5 mph for over 15 min. My resting rate as I sit here now is 60, but I am on my second cup of coffee.

Exercise no matter how strenuous never initiated afib.

It initiated SVT in my case. I had a MIBI stress test a year ago. When the attending internist halted my effort, he told me that he was beginning to see SVT, which was a new development. He cautioned me that I should not let my HR rise above 120 until we could get my AF controlled.

Looking back, I had two instances of AF/tachy in my cycling past. The first was on a goat path, quite vertical, in the Gatineau Hills north of Ottawa in 1999. I found myself getting winded on my mountain bike and stopped to take a breather. My heart raced noticeably for over five minutes while I stood there becoming increasingly alarmed. It eventually reverted, and the phenomenon didn't return until 11 years ago when a loud-mouth hollered out of his large pickup driver's window at a stop light saying, "I sure hope I don't run over you with my heavy truck." We had words. I was not under exertion because I had just coasted down a long hill and was able to rest. But, I had to pull over a minute after the light turned green and found my heart pounding. That was probably adrenaline, but it was a novel experience for me. I have had many novel experiences in the Canadian Armed Forces, much of it in the combat arms. I don't recall ever having a pounding heart. Not like that. Anyway, it went back into NSR and I returned home fine.

We're all different. There are no hard 'n fast rules in this business of managing AF, except that we own how we contend with it.

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Ken


Not clear to me, but it seems for me at age 77, my range is - 75 to 128 bpm. So what exactly does this mean? At least 75 for any cardiovascular fitness benefit and a max of 128 for safety? It seems that my max HR is 125 and I can't get it any higher, that's on a 15% incline on a treadmill walking fast at 3.5 mph for over 15 min. My resting rate as I sit here now is 60, but I am on my second cup of coffee.

Exercise no matter how strenuous never initiated afib.

The rule of thumb is, 220 minus your age (77) = 143 x 85% = 121.5 bpm max.

I know what my max heartrate is supposed to be at my age, but what is the chart you posted telling us? Is it showing what the normal / average resting heart rate is for my age group and what the normal / average maximum HR is for my age group? I don't think so, because it is about target heart rate for fitness, which is why I made my first comment.:

"Too much gap between the highs and lows to be of any value."

We must be missing something for that wide range to be considered a reasonable level of cardiac output when 'exercising'. When I walk, as a lifelong runner now at 70, and whose heart when waking after proper sleep is usually below 53 BPM, I can expect my 'normal' exercising rate to be above 95, but seldom above 105. If I am really moving, sometimes breaking into a 30 second jog, the rate will climb to 125. I don't know what the chart intends, or its authors intended, when it says I should be as low as 75.

I agree with gloaming. That chart is very simplistic and doesn't make much sense. Every number on it is lower than what I and many people my age reach on a routine basis during even modest exercise. If 75 is a heart rate you're achieving during exercise and you're not on rate limiting drugs, then something is wrong. It can't just be that you're out of shape because if you're out of shape your normal resting heart rate is going to be higher than 75. I really can't imagine what's going on with someone who gets on a treadmill and gets their heart rate UP to 75 unless they're a conditioned athlete.

Carey,

When you replied to a resent post that you had gone on a 50 mile bike ride a week or two after your ablation, I thought this can't be right as my way of thinking, it sure would put a huge strain on the healing heart.
That's when I started looking for some guidance and came across the "American Heart Association for target heart rate numbers for adults ages 45 to 70:"

Actually the best guidance I got was form GeorgeN and have since found this PDF. [www.google.com]

I also discovered that the Australian heart research are to carry out a study on exercise post ablation to see if they can reduce arrhythmia recurrence.

“There is little evidence relating to exercise rehabilitation following catheter ablation and whether it can reduce arrhythmia recurrence and improve patient outcomes. We’re hoping our project will help fill this knowledge gap.”

[australianheartresearch.org.au]

Maybe the Doctors advise that you can return to normal exercise 10 days after an ablation is premature, and that it does take 3 months for the heart to heal properly.

Colindo, I think it's wise not taking some individual experiences as a rule of thumb.
There are people returning to normal active life just a couple of weeks after an ablation. Fine for them, but it does not imply any patient should be like them.
When I left the hospital about 24h after my PVI, I was amazingly fine. I'd been told to take my blood thinner and be careful the first week, time for the little cuts in my groins to heal. At this moment, I couldn't imagine how bad I would feel for at least one month.
Burns in the heart chambers are serious injuries. While we're in the lab, we're injected some strong pain killing drugs our body needs some time to get rid of. When done, one may feel really bad. I did. I felt like a disabled very old guy. And it took me loooong weeks to recover.

That is a wise approach to one's OWN healing, Pompon; deal with it sensibly as your various feedback mechanisms suggest to you. The key one is your own heart-rate. If it is quite apparently elevated from what you know it ought to have been under previous circumstances of that kind, then there's a message there. Take it easy for the next few days. Chopping firewood, pushing a heavy old lawnmower, lifting chairs off the deck to power-wash it...that will simply have to wait, or get some kind soul to do it one more time for you.

Anecdotal evidence should help each of us to know the range of what is possible for us if we undergo the same procedures. George is about the only regular attendee here who seems to have found a rigorous method and regimen that he has followed for years because...well...it works! Others are often in the sometimes miserable process of learning what it is that sets them off, and how to get back into a sustained NSR if that is possible. Those of us who are bullheaded, invigilant, or easily swayed by others to do more than we ought to, are going to have a very hard time indeed.

To paraphrase another aphorism, recover smarter, not harder.