blood thinning question

I take 5 mg Eliquis twice a day like clockwork. I am aware of other things that thin my blood like turmeric but have spoken with the cardiology pharmacist and she said go ahead and try it. This past week I had a cold so I was making a tea by boiling turmeric powder. And my blood draw bruise got worse a week in, I have a spot on my chin that I apparently must have scraped and if I pick it off there is bleeding, and now a bit of a bloody nose (from blowing nose). So duh. Stop the turmeric. Two questions.

1) I know with Coumadin there is that blood test that tells how thin your blood is. Is there an indicator when you are on Eliquis? Is the INR applicable?

2) What is the real danger of too thin blood? That you are bleeding internally? I rarely (if ever) bleed on Eliquis. But to be honest, I was looking forward to my stupid turmeric tea in the mornings because coffee was giving my stomach upset and I was almost as satisfied with the tea. Plus it's healthy. I'm gonna lay off on the tea for now but I wonder the true danger of how thin the blood might get by a mug of turmeric tea in the morning.

Thanks

As far as I know, INR is suitable for assessing the 'thinness' of the blood...period. So, while coumadin is often tested this way, every two weeks in most cases, I have yet to have an INR for apixaban, same dose as yours. At least, I haven't been told by an ethical physician that I was tested and found safe.

You should get more opinions before long.

Eliquis raises INR but they don't know why and they don't know what the significance is. All the DOACs work via a different chemical pathway and there's just no need to measure anything. If you're taking the pills correctly and consistently, they are effective. It's funny how nobody asks this question about any other drugs, only the DOACs.

Quote
bettylou4488
2) What is the real danger of too thin blood? That you are bleeding internally? I rarely (if ever) bleed on Eliquis. But to be honest, I was looking forward to my stupid turmeric tea in the mornings because coffee was giving my stomach upset and I was almost as satisfied with the tea. Plus it's healthy. I'm gonna lay off on the tea for now but I wonder the true danger of how thin the blood might get by a mug of turmeric tea in the morning.

Not exactly your situation, but this article addresses high fish oil consumption and bleeding around surgery and did not find a big risk. [pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

In my case, I don't take any prescription OAC, but I do consume a lot of DHA & EPA along with a plasmalogen precursor, which is effectively DHA.These also act as "blood thinners." I'm a rock climber & with my high intake, my arms tend to look like a person with a high INR on Warfarin (as i beat them up pretty badly during climbing creating hematomas & bruises under the skin). I tend to back off consumption when my arms look really bad. When I test my omega 3 index, it is very high, in the teens (Japanese, who eat a lot of fish, tend to have an omega 3 index around 8.5%). Americans are around 3%.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2022 08:01AM by GeorgeN.

Thanks all I will have to see if my functional cardiologist checked my omega 3 index as I am not familiar with that.

I've often wondered if my blood could be tested for it's viscosity. (I'm on Xarelto, 15 mg, because there's a family history of brain hemorrhages. -Not all cardiologists like that I don't take the recommended 20 mg/day, but my primary care doc said his pharmacologist consultant said in cases with familial bleeding, 15 mg is acceptable). I like the 15 mg because many of my supplments also thin the blood: fish oils, Vit C, ginger, and the list goes on... I'm OK with taking smaller doses of these supplments (Only 50 g of CoQ10, for instance) but don't want to lose the value of many of them.
If there was a way to monitor blood viscosity on a semi regular basis, I would like this.

Quote
californiagal
If there was a way to measure blood viscosity on a semi regular basis

It can be done but you may have to combine a few tests. I had in measured in one test from Hemex lab years ago (my result showed hyper coagulation) but they sold to Labcorp and I don’t think that single test is available any more. It measured 4 factors as I remember. So while you could probably get the same results combining several tests, it would not be cheap or convenient.

Just so we're all on the same page....

Blood thinners do not thin the blood, which is why I never use that term. The drugs we call "blood thinners" interfere with the blood's ability to form clots, but they don't do so by any sort of thinning process. If you're well hydrated, your blood will be as thin as it needs to be and that's really all you can do to keep it that way.

Quote
Carey
Just so we're all on the same page....

Blood thinners do not thin the blood, which is why I never use that term. The drugs we call "blood thinners" interfere with the blood's ability to form clots, but they don't do so by any sort of thinning process. If you're well hydrated, your blood will be as thin as it needs to be and that's really all you can do to keep it that way.

Thanks for the clarification. Question then- in talking about other things like turmeric... it is same. they stop the ability to clot. yes? They don't 'thin the blood.' Same as the meds. Just trying to make sure I understand.

Yes, that's correct. Tumeric, fish oil, and all those other things people call blood thinners don't actually thin the blood or change its viscosity. The only thing that actually thins the blood is water.

Bettylou - Be sure you understand that many herbals do have a property that is known to have antiplatelet or anti "clumping" effects on the blood which can result in excess bleeding.... I had that experience when I began taking coumadin and the residuals from the 'natural antiplatelet herbals' I had been using when I first had Afib.. were still working... which manifested (for me) as heavy nosebleeds that required a trip to ER to cauterize. There are other herbals that are similar.

It's smart to be aware and not risk getting into a situation where taking those herbals is risky....Even though they often have numerous health benefits. Plus, (obviously), internal bleeding, could be a disaster.

There are many articles on this topic online ... here's a few. And some offer links to formal studies.

Be well,
Jackie

[draxe.com]

[www.turmericforhealth.com]

Quote
Jackie



[www.turmericforhealth.com]

Wow that second link has a ton of good info. thanks Jackie.

Quote
bettylou4488
Thanks all I will have to see if my functional cardiologist checked my omega 3 index as I am not familiar with that.

Bill Harris is the goto guy on omega 3 index. Two excellent podcasts:
[peterattiamd.com]
[www.foundmyfitness.com]
His testing company:
[omegaquant.com]

Quote
bettylou4488

[www.turmericforhealth.com]

Wow that second link has a ton of good info. thanks Jackie.

Good articles, though they did not explore the effect on DOACs, only warfarin, aspirin, etc. One thing that struck me though was that curcumin could interfere with the metabolization of medications so that if you are going to take it, it is best to take it a few hours from your anticoagulant.