Electrolytes for afib? How much?

I read several places electrolytes are really important for afib and can help with the symptoms. I did have two glasses this morning to start my day. Interestingly enough my symptoms were much less I don't know if it's a coincidence. For people who use that on a regular basis how much do you usually use? I drank two 8 oz glasses first thing this morning. I use Gatorade since I already have some on hand. I don't know where there are other brands people can recommend? I'm just wondering also again about how much do you ingest for good results since it is also high sugar and high salt. Thanks!

Gatorade has quite a lot of sugar and is not very high in electrolytes. If you want a liquid, Pedialyte may be the best and if you choose Pedialyte I find the unflavored to be the least disgusting! Personally I use a powdered electrolyte mix called Ultima. I think you’re right that electrolytes are very important.

Everyone is different. I take magnesium to bowel tolerance (my tolerance is very high). For me any form of magnesium works for me, I'm a fan of powders so use magnesium glycinate and dimagnesium malate powders. As well I dissolve magnesium chloride flakes in water in a supersaturated solution, I dip tsps of it out and swallow (tastes very bitter). Most who consume my quantity of mag would be on the toilet all day, but the concept of going up to whatever your bowel tolerance is has worked for others. I also use 2 tsp of potassium citrate powder (which is 4 g of potassium) dissolved in about a liter of water with 1/2 to 1 tsp of sea salt. I consume over the day. A bolus of potassium will be urinated out quickly so it is my DIY version of timed release. I also consume 1/2 tsp of taurine powder (not an electrolyte, but it helps with electrolyte utilization.

I assume kidney function is good. Good kidneys will excrete any excess. Poor kidneys will accumulate them and that can be dangerous.

Some have used this recipe for magnesium bicarbonate water to good effect (reacting magnesium hydroxide - liquid is milk of magnesia or MoM with chilled carbonated water). Make it and drink over the day.[www.afibbers.org]
Along this line, but less time involved is reacting magnesium hydroxide with vinegar (I use organic apple cider vinegar) to make magnesium acetate in a 2 MoM to 7 or 8 ACV ratio. See this thread: [www.afibbers.org]

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Nancypo
I read several places electrolytes are really important ....

There is another fellow who, if I might say like GeorgeN, very successfully pursued intense self-study to figure out what worked for him. Took him years, maybe he said 9, to get all the fine tuning done, but has never had an ablation and now lives free of heart meds. I can't find the link now, but he's written it up in detail and put it online on his website. If I recall, he's from Australia. He has lots of info on nutrition. If I come across it, I'll post the link, or maybe someone knows the website I'm talking about.

Thanks

My kidney function is good and I take magnesium every night. Just looking for some simple ideas with how much to take that's not too technical

Its been decades since I've been able to formulate simple answers everything is so complicated, especially the unsolved problems in society, like afib. You can try one electrolyte at a time, but physiology is nonlinear, meaning if taking X achieves A, and taking Y achieves B, then taking X and Y will not necessarily achieve A and B. But I like Daisy's advice, if I understand her correctly, which is to reduce or cut out the non-electrolyte stuff. I believe Nuun tablets are lower in sugars than, for example, Powerade. We use Nuun when hiking.

Found the link, though I now know it doesn't answer your question, but to follow up, here it is:

Steven Carr: focus of this site is the treatment of Lone Atrial Fibrillation

I use Nuun. I can't say it helps AF, but it is a great sport electrolyte and has no carbs. A bit spendy for that little tube of fizzy tablets, but it's good stuff. Been using it for a decade or more now.

Thanks

I believe maintaining a healthy balance of electrolytes is important to maintenance of overall health; this is discussed as it pertains to afib in several books that I have read on the subject such as the afib cure by Dr John Day. Since being diagnosed with AFIB three years ago I have researched and tried very hard to maintain a healthy balance. The protocol I follow is:

Sodium- I avoid adding to prepared food; sodium and potassium are on opposite sides of the balance. Supplementation is not necessary.
Calcium- sufficient from a normal diet. I avoid excess consumption of dairy products. Supplementation is not necessary.
Magnesium- I push the limits of bowel tolerance; try to get approximately 1000 mg/day. I use a time release form such as jigsaw and add other forms to fill in. Important to monitor levels with the “RBC” magnesium lab test done annually. My target level is 6+.
Potassium- target consumption is 4700mg/day “RDA”. I find this challenging via diet alone when trying to restrict calories and sugar so I supplement with up to 2000 mg daily. I use Dr Berg’s electrolyte powder added to filtered water and sip it throughout the day. My target lab is 4.5

Has this helped with my afib? Maybe! It definitely has eliminated all muscle cramping, constipation and reflux. My guess is it also smoothed out my episodes, made them less symptomatic and shorter. But I still had episodes, even when taking an anti Arythmia medication, I still follow this protocol but ended up with an ablation this past June.

Steve

I actually saw a YouTube video about someone who started using that when his afib kicked in and had great luck with it. I may start that also to see how it works especially since the slow sugar and carbs, thanks! I'm just sort of overwhelmed right now with too much information on what to do so I want to do something really simple to start with and see how it works. Yesterday went much much better! Not sure if it's the Gatorade that helped but I'll take it

Thank you for the information! It sounds like I mostly need to do some potassium supplements since I'm already on magnesium. I think I also really need to start restricting more sodium. I definitely don't get too much calcium since I'm allergic to Dairy and I do take a small calcium supplement. It seems like there's a lot of powders out there and books and it's a lot of info so I mostly looking to start with something simple. Will probably just go ahead and buy some potassium tablets this weekend and talk to my cardiologist next week about getting a potassium test. Luckily my Wellness visit is coming up in a month or so with my PCP and I can look at maybe any other labs he might suggest to support this. He's definitely more Wellness oriented than my cardiologist electrophysiologist

Thanks my kidneys are an excellent condition so that's not a concern. The milk of magnesia sounds like maybe that would be a simple way for me to start getting more magnesium. I'm also on a budget so I'm trying to find something that's effective but reasonably priced to get more magnesium into my system. Thanks!

Thanks I was thinking about that too I need to limit my sugar and carbs no point in dosing myself up with that basically sounds like I need a lot more potassium

I use Pedialyte and Ultima

FYI…the issue I have with Gatorade is it’s high in sugar, carbs and sodium and low in potassium. In my opinion their are much better choices. Dr Berg;s and keto 1000 powder’s are two such choices.

Steve

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Nancypo
Thanks my kidneys are an excellent condition so that's not a concern. The milk of magnesia sounds like maybe that would be a simple way for me to start getting more magnesium. I'm also on a budget so I'm trying to find something that's effective but reasonably priced to get more magnesium into my system. Thanks!

If your kidneys are in good condition, you won't have to worry about excess sodium. Properly functioning kidneys will excrete excesses of most minerals.

Thanks!

It's funny you post this. Last week I was looking at a giant bottle of water with electrolytes that someone had. If you did want to go that route it is much healthier than gatorade or anything like that. I personally take gobs of Mg. George mentioned he takes it to bowel tolerance. Some forms for me don't bother the bowels but if I am backed up I take oxide. Otherwise I take glycerinate in the morning and Theronate in the evening. And I take a prescribed potassium supplement. When I was on dofetilide I routinely had my blood checked for Mg every 3 months and it is less so now but it would be at least good to have a starting line with those sorts of things before tinkering with them. (Most don't take potassium supplements- mine was low so a small amount was added.). There is a chart out there that shows which Mg is good for what. .. MOM I think is the oxide kind. (I'd be careful with that if you already have normal bowels but you could take drastically reduced amounts to start I suppose. But I think there is a lot more stuff fin there- plus it's disgusting. LOL! I have childhood nightmares of taking that stuff!!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2022 07:29AM by bettylou4488.

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bettylou4488
MOM I think is the oxide kind. (I'd be careful with that if you already have normal bowels but you could take drastically reduced amounts to start I suppose.

The recipes I linked above [www.afibbers.org] react MoM with chilled carbonated water, in the first case, to make bicarbonate water. In the second, MoM is reacted with vinegar to make magnesium acetate. Both the bicarbonate and the acetate are very bioavailable.

Thanks I started on Nuun this am, we'll see how it goes

If you end up not liking one or another, it could be due to 'other stuff' in them, such as stevia as a sugar substitute. They'll have an electrolyte list with quantities of each electrolyte. But also a separate list, the traditional list of ingredients with the 'other stuff' listed.

BTW, if you like beets and tomatoes, and potatoes, or nuts, you will get a lot of potassium in your diet and can spare yourself the expense of tablets and other commercial preparations. Dried apricots,

Yes thanks, I'm already working on getting more information about including Foods, not a big fan of having to buy extra stuff anyway but trying to jump start the program so to speak

I drink two liters of coconut water a day. I’m really low in K and K supplements gives me GI pain. I also eat salmon 5 times a week, beets, avocados, quinoa and unfortunately bananas (high in sugar) and yams a couple times a week-all high in K. Whole food sells green banana flour-2 tablespoons =836mg K. Another brand equals 7 bananas.

[www.amazon.com]

[www.healthline.com]

Thanks for the info!

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susan.d
coconut water

Having recently been on a mild binge of drinking/eating what are known as young-green-coconuts,



we've been wondering how the liquid compares with the liters we buy, at times, in the store?

I just returned in the middle of the night from a foreign ER 2.5 hours away from where I’m staying. 13 bed ER. Excellent care. Best experience ever. I had 170 hr, 10/10 pain, sweaty, and was throwing up all afternoon and wanted to faint.

Is a vomit marathon common for tachycardia/flutter?

My BP was very low so they held the 15mg cardizem push they had in their hand and suggested an ECV instead. After being set up with pads, electrolytes etc my hr suddenly dropped to 80 (then 144 but settled at 80 for a hour) but I was still in flutter. 80hr flutter? I was converted by the second one liter bag of saline, asked if I want to stay overnight (no). I had four nurses and a dr staying with me. Maybe I wasn’t that well. When I called for an ambulance four came and then they called for four more (trauma tier) to come and take over. They all complained why I waited 7 hours. Why? Because I would be living in the ER otherwise.

Anyway I’m posting because of this thread on electrolytes. I’m unable to fill a rx for time released K I got from a EP last month because i’m not a citizen (I was told liability because one can overdose with too much K when a tourist doesn’t have a dr to follow up with labs) so foolishly I have been drinking 2 liters a day of coconut water thinking I get my K. Never again. When in the ER, I was asked if I was a diabetic because my glucose on a full day fast of vomiting was 189.

Will it ever reverse if I stop coconut water?? I don’t want to have developed diabetes. I just read the nutritional label and its 4mg-3 of it is sugar per 100ml. That’s 600mg a day I was consuming for two liters. No wonder I have tachycardia daily. It wasn’t worth it because my low 3.7 three weeks ago only went up to 3.9- still below the EP suggested 4.5 K levels.

Be careful with coconut water! The sugar could kill you.

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susan.d
Will it ever reverse if I stop coconut water??.

It should. Especially given your small body mass, 600 g carbs/day is a very large quantity. Amazed your glucose wasn't higher.

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GeorgeN

Will it ever reverse if I stop coconut water??.
It should. Especially given your small body mass, 600 g carbs/day is a very large quantity. Amazed your glucose wasn't higher.

I’m just surprised I’m above ground. Yesterday was awful. Yes I read weight control helps but I’m already petite. I’m stopping the coconut water and will try out some buckwheat recipes since it’s low glycemic and yams as my carbs for now. Getting K will be a challenge

I would think a cup of coconut juice/milk a day would suffice for the heavy majority of those hypokalemic, but I guess we all have varying degrees of problems with retention and nutrition. Even so, if the sugar is a problem (and it seems it is), then a pill or fluid with almost no carbs is the way to go. I had an ER visit six weeks ago and was told that I was short of potassium. They fed me two white horse pills with my first dose of Amiodarone. Since then, I have been careful to eat beets, and I have two liters of coconut water just in case I need a quick dose of it.

I'm sorry to learn that you had to endure this experience. It would be most unsettling, and probably not far from a live nightmare.

Vomiting can just be the result of adrenaline. When in acute stress (often what our brains insist is acute stress, and not necessarily what professional care givers would agree is an acute episode), we run high on adrenaline which causes all sorts of unnecessary reactions in the modern age. Sweating, pilo-erection, increased urination, vomiting, wider pupils, tremors/shakes, even fainting.

what is the uptake of K from the gut?
I don't know, but in general uptake is governed by homeostatic regulation.
modulating that regulation may be helpful.

I wasn’t under any stress when vomiting. Just sitting in a room of a vomit-phobic person trying not to splatter vomit which is hard to do but I have had practice.