Afib again a week later-- VitD/Mg post?? / CBD

So I was cardio verted a week ago. Well.. a week and a half. woke up this morning and went into it again. These last two weeks I have quarantined myself because my son had 1 hour car exposure to someone who ended up with covid. I have taken gobs of extra D. I will write this question on the previous post but does that decrease the Mg that is aborbed? also took a ton of C.. and my stools are loose (ie : dehydration.). I was just about to start taurine (came in mail yesterday) and D-ribose. At the moment I am taking Inderal to see if I can get it to convert or get it to at least slow down. if I go back to the ER I don't know if they will just convert me agin. My EP hospital is 45 min away. And they are less likely to just convert. (HR is 130-- down to 108 now with 40 mg inderal and just took another 40.). When I called the EP department after my last conversation they said-- well you have an appt in December that is soon enough. sigh. I have read about CBD on here was thinking of taking some to see what would happen...Also mad that the docs took me down from 250 dofetlidlde to 125.. there was no real reason as the QT remained the same. (It is lower on the 125 but still.. the logic is crazy.). Sorry for complaining.. just sitting here hoping I convert and trying to decide where to go if I don't..

Wait, your EP expects you to just put up with a heart rate of 125 for two months?! I find it hard to believe they would say that, but if it's true then find another EP. That is dangerous and irresponsible.

If the ER cardioverted you before at a rate like you're experiencing now then there's no reason they won't do so again. Head over there as soon as you can.

As for CBD, I've never heard a single person report positive results for afib using CBD (or marijuana either).

Thanks Carey,

they were reticent to do it last time in the ER.. wanted me to follow up with EP when they got heart rate to 100ish. I talked to my functional cardiologist and my congenital cardiologist (but not the EP because all they tell you on the weekend is go to the ER.) I am taking a bunch of inderal to get it all down. When I was talking with my congenital doc I asked him to write an inner office memo to the EP because you never get to see him- just the NP or the PA. I realize and am thankful that as far as electrical goes I am not complicated (I have other issues though). But when I called after my cardio version last week they said, "well we are seeing you in December." I guess I could drive to Cleveland (I am in Mi) but I am a super complicated patient overall... and I love my congenital group. (ie I emailed my doc and he called me a couple hours later.). Anyway I think if I go to the ER they will admit me vs. doing the conversion based on previous conversations. So going to try and get down the heart rate with meds and BP and relax and pray.... I was already quarantining because. my son was exposed to covid. (That is almost at the 2 week mark though)

" When I called the EP department after my last conversation they said-- well you have an appt in December that is soon enough."

That was someone in the Doctors office, not EP saying that right?

I would re-contact them, otherwise if you go to the ER, be resolute that an EVC is needed.

I don't understand your answer. Whether to have a cardioversion or not isn't a complicated question and I'm getting the impression you haven't told your EP you're out of rhythm. I really don't understand what you're doing.

Why do you have three cardiologists? How can you possibly manage advice from three separate specialists?

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Carey

Why do you have three cardiologists? How can you possibly manage advice from three separate specialists?

I have four cardiologists each has their own niche in expertise:
Regular cardiologist who monitors my cardiac drugs-statins, refills, blood pressure and who schedules an echo every few years and is responsible for non EP cardiac issues (I.e
orthostatic hypotension, etc). I see him only when my refills run out yearly.

Long term Local EP who only refills Eliquis and arrhythmia drugs and treats my AF/flutter pre index but follows up currently to be in the loop. and is attending at my favorite ER.

Micro vascular specialist (small vessel disease) who is an expert in her field. Plus she is is a cardiac nutritionist. She also has a keen interest and expertise in chemo drugs and their post long term cardiac effects.

Natale for ablations—all EP related ablation post or pre EP ablation issues



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2020 01:03AM by susan.d.

Your problems aren't Betty's problems. My question is directed at Betty.

Betty,

I can only say for myself, (an adrenergic afibber), that vitamin D is an absolute trigger for my afib. I have tried it many times with the same result. Vitamin D works as a metabolic energizer in my research, and can act as a stimulant. I know nothing about you or your case, but I see too many people trying to micromanage their afib with supplements. I have been experimenting for over 15 years with it all. The body is smart and knows what it needs is my philosophy. Tying to 'fix it' with supplements may not be productive, but counter-productive and maddening. What has worked best for me is to stay away from all supplements, stimulants, processed foods, etc., and to stay religiously hydrated - this is key, key, key.

Just some thoughts for you. I am sorry you are going through all of this, it is extremely frustrating and scary. But you are not alone...

Jeff

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Carey
Your problems aren't Betty's problems. My question is directed at Betty.

Related to the point she has cardiac sub specialists to treat her functional cardiologist, congenital cardiologist , and ep for AF. I was making a statement to her defense that each cardiologist is an expert in their own sub field.

It’s like comparing a licensed contractor to a HVAC air conditioner guy. Sure the contractor can wing it but the AC has more experience in his own field. That’s why the general contractor hires electricians,,plumbers and other subcontractors at his disposal.

Jeff - How much vitamin D were you taking? And, more importantly - were you balancing that with vitamin K2 MK7? There are numerous posts on the topic of the reason why taking K2MK7 is important as it helps direct circulating calcium (excitatory to heart cells) into bones where it belongs. Were you tested to determine your Vitamin D levels before you began supplementing?

Vitamin D is very important on many levels (especially these days) and, unfortunately, it’s not typically assessed routinely. Optimal levels of Vitamin D are important for muscle health/fitness. The heart is a cardiac muscle.

Refer to the recent posts by PC in the General Health forum for background info.

Jackie

Quote
Carey
I don't understand your answer. Whether to have a cardioversion or not isn't a complicated question and I'm getting the impression you haven't told your EP you're out of rhythm. I really don't understand what you're doing.

Why do you have three cardiologists? How can you possibly manage advice from three separate specialists?

1) adult congenital
2) EP
3) Dr. Kahn.. functional cardiologist..

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Jeff W
Betty,

I can only say for myself, (an adrenergic afibber), that vitamin D is an absolute trigger for my afib. I have tried it many times with the same result. Vitamin D works as a metabolic energizer in my research, and can act as a stimulant. I know nothing about you or your case, but I see too many people trying to micromanage their afib with supplements. I have been experimenting for over 15 years with it all. The body is smart and knows what it needs is my philosophy. Tying to 'fix it' with supplements may not be productive, but counter-productive and maddening. What has worked best for me is to stay away from all supplements, stimulants, processed foods, etc., and to stay religiously hydrated - this is key, key, key.

Just some thoughts for you. I am sorry you are going through all of this, it is extremely frustrating and scary. But you are not alone...

Jeff

Thanks Jeff. it is very interesting I had started increasing D by a HUGE manifold. I wasn't adding the K that Jackie talks about and I don't know what MK7 is. I had just purchased the D with K but had not started it yet. Dr. Kahn said it is used for heart stuff.. and another friend said it helps absorption. In any event. I'm laying off.. maybe going to try the taurine.

I spent the night at the hospital. I had weird feeling in my left side of face. Ct.. then MRI.. did a cardio version legit (not ER) and wow they got me with 1000 joules instead of the bit of a crap shoot that the ER had to do. They seemed more organized.. Glad I didn't' have to wait around for eons. Not to have it not happen again. I. know everyone loves Natalee for the ablation-- I could do that. maybe I should get on the list.. (I have not flown since 2001..... not because of fear or anything just because I don't go anywhere now LOL!).

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bettylou4488
I spent the night at the hospital. I had weird feeling in my left side of face. Ct.. then MRI.. did a cardio version legit (not ER) and wow they got me with 1000 joules instead of the bit of a crap shoot that the ER had to do.

Take a zero off that number. I assure you they did not shock you with 1000 J because if they had you'd probably be dead and there would be a big, black, smoking hole in your chest. They probably used 100 J, which is the lowest setting used on adults and probably the same setting the ER used. The machines don't even go anywhere near 1000.

I think 300J is the max and that will levitate you off the bed. Fortunately I never had to “ride the lightning”.

I had to look it up. Bears will be deterred by about 1 joule.

Electric fence info " For example, a energizer that is powerful enough to deliver its charge through 20 acres of fencing will not necessarily also have a joule rating of 0.7-1.0 that is needed to exclude bears."

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susan.d


Why do you have three cardiologists? How can you possibly manage advice from three separate specialists?

I have four cardiologists each has their own niche in expertise:
Regular cardiologist who monitors my cardiac drugs-statins, refills, blood pressure and who schedules an echo every few years and is responsible for non EP cardiac issues (I.e
orthostatic hypotension, etc). I see him only when my refills run out yearly.

Long term Local EP who only refills Eliquis and arrhythmia drugs and treats my AF/flutter pre index but follows up currently to be in the loop. and is attending at my favorite ER.

Micro vascular specialist (small vessel disease) who is an expert in her field. Plus she is is a cardiac nutritionist. She also has a keen interest and expertise in chemo drugs and their post long term cardiac effects.

Natale for ablations—all EP related ablation post or pre EP ablation issues

I also have 3 cardiologists (general, EP, interventional). Not that unusual if you are not blessed with “lone aFib.” Trick is getting them all to communicate and work with each other or not being too territorial.

Thank you Walt for posting.

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walt
Trick is getting them all to communicate and work with each other or not being too territorial.

See, that's the part that worries me. Are they all communicating? If so, great, no problem. But if not, then the patient ends up adjudicating their advice, prescriptions, etc. and they're probably not even remotely qualified to do that. I've seen people do that and it wasn't pretty. At least one I can think of ended up in ICU for several days and damn near killed herself because one doc didn't understand the reasoning of another doc and gave contradictory orders.

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wolfpack
I think 300J is the max and that will levitate you off the bed. Fortunately I never had to “ride the lightning”.

oh my gosh my brother said the same thing when I was zapped the week ago.. "ride the lightening." lol.. not lol.. lol!

Betty - probably best not to google youtube videos of ECVs... just enjoy the propo while you can and waking up in NSR.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2020 11:06AM by NotLyingAboutMyAfib.

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The Anti-Fib
" When I called the EP department after my last conversation they said-- well you have an appt in December that is soon enough."

That was someone in the Doctors office, not EP saying that right?

I would re-contact them, otherwise if you go to the ER, be resolute that an EVC is needed.

yes and no. it was the scheduling who then went and checked with them. and they said 3 months. Just got off a vid visit with my congenital doc and he is going to contact the EP doc for m e to at least connect with him..especially since I had 2 episodes in as many weeks. (I still wonder if it was the xtra D.). I agree it isn't right. I like the EP I saw at the hospital (different than where I go for my cardiac stuff.). But.. it is not as a prestigious hospital.

Quote
Carey

I spent the night at the hospital. I had weird feeling in my left side of face. Ct.. then MRI.. did a cardio version legit (not ER) and wow they got me with 1000 joules instead of the bit of a crap shoot that the ER had to do.

Take a zero off that number. I assure you they did not shock you with 1000 J because if they had you'd probably be dead and there would be a big, black, smoking hole in your chest. They probably used 100 J, which is the lowest setting used on adults and probably the same setting the ER used. The machines don't even go anywhere near 1000.

haha yea.. sorry. I blame the anesthesia I had yesterday.

Quote
NotLyingAboutMyAfib
Betty - probably best not to google youtube videos of ECVs... just enjoy the propo while you can and waking up in NSR.

I have considered googling them from time to time.. but never had. better left unseen

Quote
Carey

Trick is getting them all to communicate and work with each other or not being too territorial.

See, that's the part that worries me. Are they all communicating? If so, great, no problem. But if not, then the patient ends up adjudicating their advice, prescriptions, etc. and they're probably not even remotely qualified to do that. I've seen people do that and it wasn't pretty. At least one I can think of ended up in ICU for several days and damn near killed herself because one doc didn't understand the reasoning of another doc and gave contradictory orders.

.

You’re absolutely right which is why forums such as this can be invaluable in helping us advocate for ourselves or perhaps recognize when “treatment” or advice just doesn’t seem right. Not to belabor the point but.....I recently had an appt at the sleep clinic for apnea related concerns. Thanks to information gleaned from an apnea forum, I had a rather determined discussion with the sleep doc regarding aspects of my treatment. Long story short, the doc admitted that I had a point and agreed to some further evaluation to help sort things out. Nevertheless, the report that was sent to my primary essentially called me a disgruntled patient who wouldn’t follow her instructions. Don’t know how to deal with that but advocating for yourself is essential, though not without its consequences.

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walt
I had a rather determined discussion with the sleep doc regarding aspects of my treatment. Long story short, the doc admitted that I had a point and agreed to some further evaluation to help sort things out. Nevertheless, the report that was sent to my primary essentially called me a disgruntled patient who wouldn’t follow her instructions. Don’t know how to deal with that but advocating for yourself is essential, though not without its consequences.

16 years ago, at the beginning of my afib "career," cardio #2 told me digoxin was his favorite afib med. I'd already joined here, read Hans' first book and knew that digoxin was not high on my list for afib. I'd have hour long "discussions" with the cardio. He ultimately passed me off to the EP, which was a blessing. My primary doc (who I also knew personally) thought the reports about me from cardio #2 were hilarious, because of what you said.

In business, I have experts I consult and consider before I make a decision. I look at docs the same way - not someone who can dictate what I do, but someone who's advice I carefully consider. I look for docs where I can have this collaborative relationship. Yesterday I was having a tooth implant. At the beginning of the day, before my tooth was extracted, it was not known whether I would need a bone graft. The dentist asked if I wanted human or some other material, if needed. I told her I had no basis for making a decision and asked her preference, which was human. I told her I would take her advice (fortunately a graft was not required). Point being the dentist & I have a great working relationship.