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Potassium supplementation - how much is dangerous?

Posted by DavrosT 
Potassium supplementation - how much is dangerous?
August 23, 2020 01:30PM
So I'm on B12 injections, and been suffering with a few extra, unsettling heart symptoms in the past 2 weeks since starting. I'm beginning to wonder whether it's anything to do with hypokalemia, or maybe even just slightly lowered potassium levels.

My potassium levels aren't something I'd actually given a lot of thought to lately - my bad. But having mentioned it to somebody that I had started to take a few potassium tablets a day for the past week or so (until I can see my GP), they went a little nuts saying how dangerous it was and you should only take prescribed potassium

As a group full of potassium takers, is that actually true?

I mean, I used to supplement about 400mg a day (partly as I don't get enough in my diet - partly due to IBS), along with mag, arginine and taurine. I know large doses can cause problems but would that be considered a 'dangerous' dose?

Just keen on people's thoughts on this. I'm going to try and see my doctor this week, as I'm having a lot of head, eye and neck issues that are concerning me so I may mention the heart stuff too and see whether he'll sort me out some bloods.
Re: Potassium supplementation - how much is dangerous?
August 23, 2020 04:31PM
Low sodium V8 has approximately 100 mg Potassium Chloride per one ounce V8 juice. So when you drink one of those little 5.25 oz cans, you're getting 530 mg Potassium. I found that actually helped CONVERT me in my last afib episode. So I would say that much potassium is not a problem at all.

And as GeorgeN has pointed out here before, you can just buy straight potassium chloride in the product "No Salt" sold in supermarkets. And 1/4 tsp is 650 mg Potassium chloride. And you can use it to spike whatever beverage you want.

I have not gotten into daily potassium supplementation of this sort. But I will definitely be keeping those little cans of low sodium V8 handy for my next episode!

kim
Re: Potassium supplementation - how much is dangerous?
August 23, 2020 04:37PM
Quote
PoetKim
Low sodium V8 has approximately 100 mg Potassium Chloride per one ounce V8 juice. So when you drink one of those little 5.25 oz cans, you're getting 530 mg Potassium. I found that actually helped CONVERT me in my last afib episode. So I would say that much potassium is not a problem at all.

And as GeorgeN has pointed out here before, you can just buy straight potassium chloride in the product "No Salt" sold in supermarkets. And 1/4 tsp is 650 mg Potassium chloride. And you can use it to spike whatever beverage you want.

I have not gotten into daily potassium supplementation of this sort. But I will definitely be keeping those little cans of low sodium V8 handy for my next episode!

kim

Thanks Kim, I thought as much too.

The reactions to supplementation appears to vary, depending on who you ask. Also, supplementing many things can be dangerous in high doses, but I wouldn't have thought that 4 99mg tabs a day would be overdoing it a great deal. As I said, I don't really get much in my food intake so I'd expect my levels to be down, as opposed to up.
Re: Potassium supplementation - how much is dangerous?
August 23, 2020 06:55PM
I'm not surprised you got the reaction you did. The entire medical community is convinced that potassium is deadly. And it can be if used improperly. How much is too much depends on kidney function and what drugs you're taking. If you have impaired kidney function I wouldn't take any at all without a doctor's guidance, and if you're taking a potassium sparing drug I wouldn't either (spironolactone, ACE inhibitors, ARBs, a few others).

But the thing about supplements is they're limited to 99 mg per pill in the US, which makes them a complete waste of money. You can get 100 mg of potassium from a few swigs of orange juice, a few nuts, or a hundred other perfectly safe things. The only way to get large doses of potassium from supplements is to go around the safeguards and buy salt substitutes or potassium in bulk (chloride, gluconate, etc). And that's where things can get dangerous if you have no way of measuring your serum potassium levels.
Re: Potassium supplementation - how much is dangerous?
August 23, 2020 07:54PM
I have tried, with no success, larger amounts of potassium from Bulk Supplements and using creme of tartar early on. I probably wouldn't mess with it* again other than the potassium Dr N just prescribed for after the procedure.

Klor-Con 600 mg or 750 mg

*I did see some kidney labs headed the wrong way after doing this.
Re: Potassium supplementation - how much is dangerous?
August 23, 2020 10:07PM
Not saying others should do this, but I've supplemented for a long time with 4g/day of potassium as citrate. If you have a kidney issue that doesn't excrete excess potassium then it can be very dangerous, as others have said. On the other hand, if you have healthy kidneys, they will excrete any excess immediately. Hence I put my 2 tsp of potassium citrate (powder) in a liter (ish) of water and drink it over the day. My version of "timed release."

Years ago, I took 8 grams at one sitting without any negative consequences.

The recommended intake of potassium from all sources is around 4.5 g/day.

The issue becomes when you don't excrete excess and your serum level gets too high. My most recent serum test was 3.9 mmol/L after an overnight fast (likely 15 hours). I like to keep my serum potassium above 4.0 and ideally around 4.5. My first (and only) visit to the ER for afib was in 2004 and my serum potassium was 3.2, hence my focus on it.
Re: Potassium supplementation - how much is dangerous?
August 24, 2020 12:25AM
Among the supplements I've tried extensively, potassium is the one I'm the most doubtful about.

Each time I've tried taking it, I've got more ectopics, especially bigeminal PACs. I could say the same about taurine.
But I'm sure I'm getting enough of both from the fresh fruits, green leaves, meat and eggs I'm eating.

Can excess of potassium lower my HR at rest?
Re: Potassium supplementation - how much is dangerous?
August 24, 2020 12:40AM
Quote
Pompon
Can excess of potassium lower my HR at rest?

Yes. I wouldn't expect to see that unless it was really excessive, but everyone's different so it's possible.
Re: Potassium supplementation - how much is dangerous?
August 24, 2020 02:00AM
Thanks, Carey.
It's the suspected effect of potassium supplementation for me. It seems that when my HR at rest falls at 60 or slightly below, I start having "organised" ectopics.
Before ablation, my HR at rest was around 50 bpm.
Now, it's in the low 60s.
Re: Potassium supplementation - how much is dangerous?
August 24, 2020 04:59AM
Quote
Carey
I'm not surprised you got the reaction you did. The entire medical community is convinced that potassium is deadly. And it can be if used improperly. How much is too much depends on kidney function and what drugs you're taking. If you have impaired kidney function I wouldn't take any at all without a doctor's guidance, and if you're taking a potassium sparing drug I wouldn't either (spironolactone, ACE inhibitors, ARBs, a few others).

But the thing about supplements is they're limited to 99 mg per pill in the US, which makes them a complete waste of money. You can get 100 mg of potassium from a few swigs of orange juice, a few nuts, or a hundred other perfectly safe things. The only way to get large doses of potassium from supplements is to go around the safeguards and buy salt substitutes or potassium in bulk (chloride, gluconate, etc). And that's where things can get dangerous if you have no way of measuring your serum potassium levels.

Hi carey , and thanks - as always - for your reply.

Yes, I had clearly spooked them all that I was supplementing potassium. Not in particularly high doses either. I also explained I had for years along with other supps as they're tended to help reduce ectopics and afib symptoms.

I don't have any kidney issues, at least not that I'm aware of, most recent bloods were all normal.

I'm looking into making smoothies using avocado, spinach, bananas, etc so I'm taking a lot of my daily needs in one sitting without the need to supplement. Now I just need my doctor's surgery to answer the phone!
Re: Potassium supplementation - how much is dangerous?
August 24, 2020 05:01AM
Quote
GeorgeN
Not saying others should do this, but I've supplemented for a long time with 4g/day of potassium as citrate. If you have a kidney issue that doesn't excrete excess potassium then it can be very dangerous, as others have said. On the other hand, if you have healthy kidneys, they will excrete any excess immediately. Hence I put my 2 tsp of potassium citrate (powder) in a liter (ish) of water and drink it over the day. My version of "timed release."

Years ago, I took 8 grams at one sitting without any negative consequences.

The recommended intake of potassium from all sources is around 4.5 g/day.

The issue becomes when you don't excrete excess and your serum level gets too high. My most recent serum test was 3.9 mmol/L after an overnight fast (likely 15 hours). I like to keep my serum potassium above 4.0 and ideally around 4.5. My first (and only) visit to the ER for afib was in 2004 and my serum potassium was 3.2, hence my focus on it.

Thanks George, that makes perfect sense.

I am hoping to have my serum levels checked ASAP too. Then I'll know what I'm working with. Its been a few years since I did but I'd always worked on the assumption my levels would low, as opposed to high.

Primarily due to the fact that I don't eat a lot of greens and my IBS limits a lot of what I can eat.

Even in food, I highly doubt I'm getting even close to 4.5 a day! I'll bear in mind what you've said though.
Re: Potassium supplementation - how much is dangerous?
August 24, 2020 01:37PM
I know nothing of a lot of those supplements above-- I do take 20 mg Lasix every other day and sometimes I drain out my nutrients such as Mg and Potassium. one thing I have started doing for potassium is being very conscious about what I eat for breakfast on the Lasix days.. mostly this is to keep PVCs at bay.. but I will have potatoes with avocado for breakfast. I might pop a medjolol date as well. of course there is the well loved banana. Oh and I use a seaweed supplement ...dulse granules. It is funny one of my cards wanted me on a potassium supplement. I didn't do it.. when I mentioned the dulse the nurse got nervous I would be doing too much.. lol. I use it in place of salt. It is an interesting taste winking smiley
Re: Potassium supplementation - how much is dangerous?
August 24, 2020 11:33PM
I don't know what is right for you, but if I supplement with B12 I go into afib the next day or so like clockwork. I have tried B12 3 times with the same results. So B12 is a very strong trigger for me (an adrenergic afibber); which makes sense as it is a metabolic energizer. as is Vitamin D also. So I stay very clear of both, from experience. For what it is worth. Good luck!
Re: Potassium supplementation - how much is dangerous?
August 25, 2020 12:10PM
In our forum ‘early days,’ there was an abundance of helpful reports presented on the function of the potassium and magnesium ‘synergy’ contributed by PC, MD and the effects on the refractory period. These are are archived and definitely worth reviewing for the fundamentals. As you read through, you’ll notice that there are individually-unique variables so no one specific dosing protocol is considered “standard.”

Diurnal Rhythm of Potassium [www.afibbers.org]

Magnesium & Potassium in LAF By Patrick Chambers, MD Session 14A. [www.afibbers.org]

And also see CR Sessions 72 and 74 for other reports as well.
[www.afibbers.org]

Additionally, the importance of potassium: sodium ratio should also be on the “awareness” list. Here’s a clip that includes the archived report: (and also note that some people need to monitor closely potassium intake… one of our afibbers was sensitive to potassium and used a Cardymeter to help him stay out of trouble. Again, covered in the CR Session archives [www.afibbers.org]

And this past post is worth checking for content and reader response including PCs observations…

Let’s Not Forget About Potassium”
Author: Jackie
Date: 03-09-04
[www.afibbers.org]

There's a lot of material here to read... but do take the time to review and reflect on your particular situation. This applies to more health issues than afib but definitely very important for AF.

Jackie
Re: Potassium supplementation - how much is dangerous?
August 25, 2020 04:58PM
I eat about a 95% plant based diet and I still can’t reach the RDA of 4700mg of potassium which is really a minimum amount. I hear all the time how if you eat healthy you can easily reach 4700mgs but I can’t. For example this is what I ate yesterday (without amounts): Oatmeal, blueberries, purple potato, salad, pistachios, apple, brown rice, quinoa, tomato, kidney beans, and a few oysters. I tallied the amount of potassium based on quantity and it came to 3800mgs. Because of this I’ve been adding an extra 1000mgs using potassium chloride contained in salt substitutes with no problems.

One thing to note is that after eating a potato, my heart calms down much more than from the potassium chloride. At least that's what it seems like.
Re: Potassium supplementation - how much is dangerous?
August 25, 2020 05:18PM
Quote
MikeN
One thing to note is that after eating a potato, my heart calms down much more than from the potassium chloride. At least that's what it seems like.

You might try the potassium citrate and see if you get a better response than from the chloride.
Re: Potassium supplementation - how much is dangerous?
August 25, 2020 05:32PM
Quote
MikeN
One thing to note is that after eating a potato, my heart calms down much more than from the potassium chloride. At least that's what it seems like.

I wonder if that could be due to the magnesium in the potato? it's an interesting observation you have made!
Re: Potassium supplementation - how much is dangerous?
August 25, 2020 05:47PM
PoetKim,
Didn't think of the magnesium and other untold nutrients, only thought of the potassium. But you can only eat so many potatoes in a day...lol

GeorgeN,
I remember you talking about potassium citrate before, I think you bought in bulk? The potassium chloride seems a bit hard on the stomach...I'll give citrate a try.
Re: Potassium supplementation - how much is dangerous?
August 25, 2020 05:50PM
It's the potassium in the potato. I completely controlled my flutter for two years using potassium largely using things I learned from the archives here that Jackie mentioned above. Magnesium had no discernible effect.

Potatoes (esp sweet potatoes and esp potatoes with skin on) are very high in potassium. And getting potassium through foods makes it sort of slow release whereas potassium chloride is a big wallop all at once that your kidneys will rapidly excrete (like in an hour or two). I think that's likely the difference.
Re: Potassium supplementation - how much is dangerous?
August 25, 2020 05:55PM
Carey,
Thanks for the reply. The good news is, I'm a big baked/microwaved potato fan. Spuds really do calm my heart...
Re: Potassium supplementation - how much is dangerous?
August 25, 2020 10:01PM
Quote
MikeN
GeorgeN,
I remember you talking about potassium citrate before, I think you bought in bulk? The potassium chloride seems a bit hard on the stomach...I'll give citrate a try.
An online friend, Raymund Edwards, has a deal with Pure Bulk that gives him a commission and the buyer a 10% discount. [purebulk.com] That is one option. This link sets up the codes, then goto potassium citrate powder.

Amazon is another option I've used: [www.amazon.com]

Either works. In my case, I put 2 tsp of the powder, which is about 4g of potassium along with 1/2 tsp of regular (sea or whatever) salt in a liter of water or so and drink it over the day. My version of timed release. I don't find the taste objectionable, nor does it negatively impact my stomach. If you consume a lot of potassium at once, healthy kidneys will urinate it out.
Re: Potassium supplementation - how much is dangerous?
August 26, 2020 03:08PM
Quote
Jackie
In our forum ‘early days,’ there was an abundance of helpful reports presented on the function of the potassium and magnesium ‘synergy’ contributed by PC, MD and the effects on the refractory period. These are are archived and definitely worth reviewing for the fundamentals. As you read through, you’ll notice that there are individually-unique variables so no one specific dosing protocol is considered “standard.”

Diurnal Rhythm of Potassium [www.afibbers.org]

Magnesium & Potassium in LAF By Patrick Chambers, MD Session 14A. [www.afibbers.org]

And also see CR Sessions 72 and 74 for other reports as well.
[www.afibbers.org]

Additionally, the importance of potassium: sodium ratio should also be on the “awareness” list. Here’s a clip that includes the archived report: (and also note that some people need to monitor closely potassium intake… one of our afibbers was sensitive to potassium and used a Cardymeter to help him stay out of trouble. Again, covered in the CR Session archives [www.afibbers.org]

And this past post is worth checking for content and reader response including PCs observations…

“Let’s Not Forget About Potassium”
Author: Jackie
Date: 03-09-04
[www.afibbers.org]

There's a lot of material here to read... but do take the time to review and reflect on your particular situation. This applies to more health issues than afib but definitely very important for AF.

Jackie

That's brill, thanks for providing that information Jackie. I'll give it a read.
Re: Potassium supplementation - how much is dangerous?
August 26, 2020 03:15PM
That's absolutely crazy, what you guys have said about potatoes. I mean, I eat tons of potato based foods - chips, crisps, hash browns, baked potatoes, etc. I'd noticed often how my heart will often calm down after lunch (I usually eat my biggest meal of the day at lunch, due to IBS), and I will, 8 times out of 10, have something involving potato with my lunch.

Madness. I'd never even thought about that.

To go back to what MikeN said - I've started making green smoothies (even bought a proper smoothie maker), as I'm not a big fan of my greens. I have half an avocado, a cup of raw spinach, a handful of strawberry, orange juice, coconut water and ice. I estimated that I'm looking at about 1500-1750mg of potassium in that. But I don't completely measure out the ingredients so I'd err on the lower end. With what other foods I'm eating, I am probably barely hitting 2500-3000mg a day altogether. It really is hard to hit even the minimum target without supplementing.

Funnily enough though, I only started the green smoothies on Monday afternoon, and my heart calmed down a great deal afterwards and I was able to get asleep much quicker.
Re: Potassium supplementation - how much is dangerous?
August 27, 2020 07:38PM
The one caveat about potatoes with skin on is to watch for light (meaning visible light) pollution. It'll make a green layer right under the skin and it comes from the spud being stored at room temperature and exposed to light (like the grocery store). It's an alkaloid (poison).

[www.gardeningknowhow.com]

Remember in old days potatoes were dug up and either eaten right away or put in a root cellar (cool and dark) with a good bit of dirt still on them. If you can see green through the skin or see it when you peel a bit then keep peeling till it's all gone. The added potassium from the skin isn't worth alkaloid poisoning. That can have you fertilizing the next crop of potatoes.
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