Magnesium and potassium like Vit C - scurvy and Inuit ?

I was feeling some possible kidney pain from the high amounts of magnesium and potassium and decided to lay off for a few days to see if the pain would go away.

It did. The pain went away.

So I need to take a 2nd look at what's the right amount give that most recent labs over 6 month window show consistent 4.4 and 4.5 for potassium and 1.9 and 2.2 for magnesium.

But all of a sudden I am having leg cramps in what should be a very saturated body.

Any chance that one becomes mg and k dependent like the Inuit did on vitamin c once they were introduced to citrus?

Additionally, has anyone ever noticed that when ramping up mg that the GI tolerates higher amounts and then levels off after 'saturation' ?

Less needed to maintain ?

Thanks.

How much K and mg were you taking?

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NotLyingAboutMyAfib
Any chance that one becomes mg and k dependent like the Inuit did on vitamin c once they were introduced to citrus?

You were born dependent on Mg and K+ in normal amounts. I don't think it's possible to become dependent on huge supplements, nor are huge supplements helpful. In fact, it sounds like you're pushing into some dangerous practices. Electrolytes are nothing to be toyed with, and if you're experiencing possible kidney pain and leg cramps, I'd take that as a sign you've gone too far.

I spent two years managing my AFL with potassium. I used quantities and drug combinations that more than one doctor warned was going to kill me. However, I had a potassium meter and could check my serum potassium level in under a minute whenever I wanted. That was the only way I could safely do that. If I were you, I would stop what you're doing until you can do the same.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2020 07:48PM by Carey.

Carey - I agree 100%. I'm tired of trying to walk the tightrope. I'm going for the ablation.

I'll definitely want my kidneys to work as well as my ablated heart.

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NotLyingAboutMyAfib
Carey - I agree 100%. I'm tired of trying to walk the tightrope. I'm going for the ablation.

I'm very glad to hear that. I was beginning to worry about you a bit, and I think you were torturing yourself with an impossible quest.

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NotLyingAboutMyAfib
So I need to take a 2nd look at what's the right amount give that most recent labs over 6 month window show consistent 4.4 and 4.5 for potassium and 1.9 and 2.2 for magnesium.

But all of a sudden I am having leg cramps in what should be a very saturated body.

Any chance that one becomes mg and k dependent like the Inuit did on vitamin c once they were introduced to citrus?

Additionally, has anyone ever noticed that when ramping up mg that the GI tolerates higher amounts and then levels off after 'saturation' ?

Less needed to maintain ?

The potassium levels are very transient. The kidneys ideally should keep this in the correct range. When I first had afib, I had a potassium level of 3.1 or 3.2 in the ER. They gave me a supplement. A few days later, my K levels were normal. Not sure why they were low, but in my case, supplemental potassium has no negative consequences. My son-in-law also had a low potassium in the ER when he had afib that would not convert. In both our cases, having potassium that I consume over the day has had a positive impact on minimizing afib episodes. A number of years ago, I looked into "paleo" levels of potassium & sodium. Seemed like a 4:1 K:Na or larger was common in the literature. From my understanding, an adequate level of potassium can substitute for sodium.

Serum levels of magnesium generally stay in range, which is why intra cellular levels are a much better indicator of mag status. My GI has tolerated higher amounts over time. My bowel tolerance is now very high, but I don't generally get anywhere near that level. Initially I thought I would get "saturated" and then my tolerance would drop. I'd read about this in others. Didn't happen to me in over 15 1/2 years. When I drop my Mg intake too much, I can experience afib breakthroughs.

As to being saturated. If I don't take mag, I can get cramps. For whatever reason, I don't seem to hold onto it for long. If I don't take mag for a day, I can get afib breakthrough.

I never worried about electrolytes for 49 years. Then I got afib and managing my electrolytes - consuming Mg & K and minimizing Ca have made a difference. Seems to make a difference for my son-in-law, too. Can't speak to anybody else.

I certainly think that getting an ablation is a good choice for you.

NLAMAF - One thing we've learned over the years since Afibber.org began is that the 'biochemical individuality' factor is definitely an important consideration when attempting to advise about nutritional supplementation to help with Afib. GeorgeN's reports are classic examples and there have been dozens more personal-history testimonials describing what works, how much and what may not. I certainly learned a lot when I compared my traditional labs to that of both ExaTest and the more detailed labs offered by Genova Diagnostics.

It's well known that magnesium is definitely a key player and not only in AF since Mg is involved in over 600 biochemical reactions and it can be a challenge to optimize and/or maintain those intracellular levels because of these requirements... especially if or when the form of magnesium doesn't even reach the IC level but rather, it bound-up/ preventing access.

It’s good that you are going to pursue the ablation route and also important that you know your IC Mg levels and keep them optimized post-ablation. The potassium issue is important as well as you must be Mg optimized before adding potassium. Most people don’t need much in the way of supplemental potassium… and in fact, as noted… the Cardy Meter is really helpful. Check the archived posts by TomC who found the Cardy Meter to be very helpful as his dietary potassium intake was often a trigger for him. Tom shared a lot of useful info on the topic.

And more incentive to keep up with optimizing Magnesium… with the advent of CV-19 and the flood of information and speculation about maintaining healthy immune systems, there is a recent observational report by Orthomolecular Medicine that indicates magnesium supplementing to help Vitamin D metabolism and thereby support Vit. D’s function to reduce risk of acute respiratory tract infections.

So… you always want to keep your intracellular magnesium stores optimized.

I wish you well with your Natale ablation!

Jackie

Reference was also made to the finding that vitamin D supplementation reduces risk of acute respiratory tract infections as demonstrated by randomized controlled trials. [3] It was recommended that vitamin D supplementation be aimed at increasing serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D] levels to 40-60 ng/ml (100-150 nmol/l), which would require daily doses up to 4000 to 5000 IU/d vitamin D3. Magnesium should also be supplemented, perhaps 400 mg/d, since the conversion of vitamin D to different metabolites requires the presence of magnesium. This recommendation was based on findings in observational studies such as one conducted by Grassrootshealth.net on influenza-like illness. [4]

The role of vitamin D in reducing risk of COVID-19: a brief survey of the literature by William B. Grant, PhD
[orthomolecular.activehosted.com]