A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium March 29, 2020 05:57PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium March 29, 2020 07:52PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 819 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium March 29, 2020 10:48PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium March 30, 2020 01:47AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 75 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium March 30, 2020 05:48AM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium March 30, 2020 06:16AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 1,087 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium March 30, 2020 09:10AM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium March 30, 2020 10:25AM |
Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 61 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium March 30, 2020 12:31PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium March 30, 2020 03:26PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 18,881 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium March 30, 2020 09:08PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 819 |
Quote
NotLyingAboutMyAfib
Thank you Jeff! Very encouraging. Do you have a recent D lab result # you can share?
I may also try to slowly raise D levels in the absence of any exo calcium but probably like many others in this forum I also have CAC # that needs regressing and now on this track of 'D as possible harmful', my friends are supplying me with links to research they have.
This one will also make one rethink D on top of afib.
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium March 30, 2020 10:09PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium March 30, 2020 10:13PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium March 31, 2020 01:09AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 75 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium March 31, 2020 10:17AM |
Admin Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 5,353 |
Quote
SteveCarr
We need far more of this -- people experimenting with immediately slashing their calcium intake (which isn't gonna hurt anyone over a period of weeks or months, and not ever if their Ca-intake doesn't go below pre-dairying, "Paleo", or Third-World levels and is combined with adequate vitamin D levels) and finding out what serum VitD level suits them best.
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium March 31, 2020 11:02AM |
Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 61 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium March 31, 2020 11:09AM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium March 31, 2020 11:16AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 18,881 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium March 31, 2020 11:28AM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium March 31, 2020 02:59PM |
Admin Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 5,353 |
Quote
NotLyingAboutMyAfib
Carey,
I don't want to get deep into a calcium argument but from what I've seen peripherally exo-calcium and drugs like Fosamax are as worthless as statins and trying to have basement low LDL. It's large healthy buoyant LDL (>20 nm) that provides energy delivery and immunity in times like this (C19).
The establishment guidance we get from ADA, AHA, USDA, etc is worthless at best and often harmful.
Not sure what hormones and calcium you're taking but often 1 intervention leads to other effects. Everyone has to make a choice.
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium March 31, 2020 03:40PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 551 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium March 31, 2020 03:47PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium March 31, 2020 05:05PM |
Admin Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 5,353 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium March 31, 2020 06:10PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium March 31, 2020 09:37PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 01, 2020 08:40AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 182 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 01, 2020 09:45AM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 01, 2020 10:05AM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 01, 2020 10:28AM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 02, 2020 02:14PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 02, 2020 02:23PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 02, 2020 06:33PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 182 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 02, 2020 07:21PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 182 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 02, 2020 08:30PM |
Admin Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 5,353 |
Quote
safib
I will respond briefly and then you can have the last word if you like.
Your rant against the AHA and ADA and I guess also the USDA is without merit. The investigators (clinicians, statisticians) involved in the studies behind their recommendations are overwhelmingly highly qualified and dedicated professionals who are subject to rigorous peer review. They are not part of some large conspiracy to defraud the public. They are fully aware of how the studies were designed and how the results were analyzed and reported. The vast majority of them are in academia and are not well paid, and wouldn't risk their tenure to fatten someone elses pocket. A few quotes or citations from some contrary individuals and studies doesn't negate the overwhelming statistical evidence of the benefit of statins for reducing serious cardiovascular events, particularly in certain demographics, and through the reduction of LDL and other mechanisms as well.
Now if you read my comment closely, although I am disputing your viewpoint my statement about "wild accusations" concerns your attempt to stigmatize the AHA and ADA and USDA, organizations which support the public health. I did not mean to suggest that you are against vaccines. Rather, I was pointing out that the same type of language is used by the anti-vaxers, and there is great risk in using that kind of language to shape public opinion, especially right now.
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 03, 2020 12:11AM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 03, 2020 12:42AM |
Admin Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 5,353 |
Quote
NotLyingAboutMyAfib
Carey - fair enough. I'm here to be helped and help if I can others with afib.
Not to debate the results of AHA, ADA, and USDA guidelines as one only needs to look at a photo of typical beach scene of Americans in 1970 and one today. If the guidelines and experts are as outstanding as Safire believes then why do all of the metrics diabetes, heart disease, obesity, high blood pressure show exponential increases and inflection points since McGovern and the USDA issued the first set of guidelines?
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 03, 2020 01:38AM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 03, 2020 03:32AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 819 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 03, 2020 09:23AM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 03, 2020 11:16AM |
Admin Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 5,353 |
Quote
NotLyingAboutMyAfib
Carey - there would be no Nobel prize for it because it's so widely known already.
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 03, 2020 12:27PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 03, 2020 03:04PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 1,748 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 03, 2020 07:55PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 03, 2020 10:02PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 1,748 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 04, 2020 09:04AM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 05, 2020 01:26AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 75 |
Quote
safib
On a different note, I successfully reduced my paroxysmal afib to < 0.1 % burden over the last two years, by maintaining a dairy-free diet along with reduction in exercise intensity and duration. The episodes that I had were short and lasted only a few minutes. In the past I have repeatedly found that dairy or fish oil supplementation at any level or D3 supplementation beyond the 1000 IU in a multivitamin precipitated PACs which often lead to afib. Based on some of the postings here, I recently tried (twice) D3 supplementation to 2000 IU while holding my calcium intake to about 500 mg. My motivation for this was to boost my D3 level and perhaps improve my immune response. My current D3 is a fairly low end 32 ng/ml. Unfortunately, this again led to PACs and short afib runs. I am going to try some more experimenting, but it seems I just can't tolerate even these moderate levels of D3 supplements even with low calcium intake.
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 05, 2020 09:22AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 182 |
Quote
SteveCarr
I had experience like you describe with Ca and VitD when I first started to sleuth this stuff out. And, of course, it can be mystifying and frustrating to try to guess the optimum Ca/VitD combo.
But in your situation I would have tried something like this: after a fortnight on a fixed daily total intake of Ca (eg the 500 mg/day of Ca you mention), and assuming my VitD intake had been stable for some time, I would get my PTH and VitD tested.
A possibility is then to lower Ca intake to 300mg/day, raise serum VitD to a new plateau level, and retest for PTH and VitD..
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 05, 2020 10:18AM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 05, 2020 11:01AM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 05, 2020 02:25PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 551 |
Quote
NotLyingAboutMyAfib
Right now I want to remove as much calcium as possible from my tissues and arteries by avoiding calcium, D and excess O3 PUFA. I'll worry about bones later but even then it may not be a problem. Fetuin-a, matrix GLA protein and BMP2 work together to shuttle calcium from where it doesn't belong (heart tissue and arteries) to where it does belong (bones).
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 05, 2020 06:21PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 18,881 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 05, 2020 08:02PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 07, 2020 04:06AM |
Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 94 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 07, 2020 10:08AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 182 |
Quote
johnnyS
I would definitely eliminate vitamin D3 in supplement form and focus on magnesium instead. I’m sure you’re aware that taking large doses of vitamin D can induce severe depletion of Mg, hence your afib. Many on this forum complained of increase in ectopics after taking higher dosages (more than 1000ius) of vitamin D3. I would take Mg to bowel tolerance and keep it there for awhile. As far as Vitamin D just get your skin exposed outside in the sun for 30 minutes daily and you should be fine.
[www.sciencedaily.com]
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 07, 2020 03:38PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 551 |
Quote
safib
I have eliminated Vitamin D supplementation and obtain Mg at RDA levels with only slight supplementation (100-200 mg of an absorbable form). It seems based on the article that increased Mg could increase the rate of Vitamin D conversion to active form and subsequently increase absorption of Ca in the gut (from food or supplements), resulting in higher serum ionized Ca with potential cardiovascular implications. Along these lines it would be interesting to know how many who are sensitive to Vitamin D supplements are also sensitive to Mg supplements (I am).
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 07, 2020 10:16PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 4,226 |
Quote
safib
Along these lines it would be interesting to know how many who are sensitive to Vitamin D supplements are also sensitive to Mg supplements (I am).
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 11, 2020 10:31AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 75 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 14, 2020 07:01AM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 783 |
Re: A complete 180 thought - AF vitamin D and Calcium April 22, 2022 12:56AM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 90 |