Can ectopic change as time passes?

Hi guys, long time no post for me.

Been having a host of other health problems, a lot of which seems to really irritate my heart. Ironically, I wore an event monitor for a week last month and my ectopic have rarely been so quiet in over 12 months!

But to my question: can the feeling an ectopic beat causes change over time? Just that recently whenever I experience a really big one, I get this feeling of almost.. stillness in my chest, which causes me to frantically reach for my pulse to check my heart. I also seem to have a feeling as if I've just gone over a steep hill in my stomach.

The ectopics have felt much more prominent lately, as if the pauses have been bigger or perhaps longer. Is it possible that they change sometimes and eb and flow?

I'm no scientist at all, but my understanding of this is our body adapts itself to a lot of things and tries to compensate one way or the other. It's likely the same with our mind. We get used to most of things, it's our way to get through anything that may happen. As long as we're alive, we're evolutive.
Other forumers can surely explain this better than me...

I was sure s.o. would explain this more precisely than me.
Thanks, Shannon !

You are right Pompom, our human bodies are amazingly adaptable machines. We would never have survived as a species so long had we not possessed such wide ranging overall adaptability from the micro to the macro level of both our physical and psychological forms.

A good example of our adaptable nature in action that is common to most all of us Afibbers, is the process of electrical and structural remodeling of cardiac myo-cytes.

A heathy human being will have naturally adapted to a very strong ‘preference’ for supporting sustained NSR. Prior to the onset of any atrial arrhythmia it is generally very difficult for the heart to convert to such an arrhythmia, and the heart is generally very good at NSR maintenance such that most of us hardly ever even noticed our constant heart beats at all, except for maybe during a heart exam or the rare instances we detected some passing ectopic skipped beats.

But once an actual AFIB/AFlutter/ATachy recurrence process begins to take hold, the heart fairly quickly will start to adapt over time to gradually accepting being more and more out of rhythm as a more or less acceptable substitute for NSR. This initial phase of adaptation of our inherent NSR is called electrical remodeling, in which our hearts learn to adapt relatively quickly to being more or less functional when no longer in NSR.

As this electrical remodeling process becomes more engrained as an alternative to NSR and the heart gets more resigned to being out of rhythm, usually by roughly the six month mark of progression of the arrhythmia some degree of physical structural remodeling will often start to occur. This increase in progression. is marked by detectable fibrotic scaring of the cardiac myo-cytes lining the endothelium of the two atria (or ventricles, in the case of ventricular disease), and signal an overall progression of one’s battle with cardiac arrhythmia.

Fortunately, this amazingly adaptable system of ours can also work in reverse, at least to a significant degree, so that once durable NSR is re-established, by whatever means so long as it is not interrupted with further recurrent arrhythmia, first the electrical remodeling will start to reverse fairly quickly and after about 6 months of restored durable NSR with no periods of repeat arrhythmia, then some degree of structural reverse remodeling begins to happen.

While any degree of reverse structural remodeling is a real benefit, the degree that existing scarring is reversible is limited primarily to relatively recent fibrotic scaring, while much older and more entrenched scaring is more often permanent.

All the more reason not to procrastinate too long in doing everything one can to restore durable NSR once the battle with on-going atrial arrhythmia is clearly overshadowing one’s quality of life.

The manifestation of ectopic beats can also adapt as well, though generally with much less significance, since all but the rare runs of PVCs that occur in consecutive groups of 3 to 7 or more with no intervening beats of NSR and which will usually earn the person a workup for the more serious ventricular tachycardia, most other runs of ectopy are genuinely physically benign, even if the are often a psychological nuisance when they visit too frequently.

There are obviously almost countless other examples of our adaptable natures in action as human beings that reflect some of our inherited evolutionary advantages we all enjoy.

Shannon

Ha Pompom, and I inadvertently typed out my reply twice! :-)... When I had just about finished the first draft, I got wrapped up in a long distance call during which I promptly lost the first version ... or so I assumed ... until after recreating my second reply from scratch and then checking back many hours later only to find I had posted both versions of the same theme, unbeknownst to me.

Cheers!
Shannon

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Shannon
Ha Pompom, and I inadvertently typed out my reply twice! :-)... When I had just about finished the first draft, I got wrapped up in a long distance call during which I promptly lost the first version ... or so I assumed ... until after recreating my second reply from scratch and then checking back many hours later only to find I had posted both versions of the same theme, unbeknownst to me.

Cheers!
Shannon

Forum rhythm disorders are usually harmless...

Shannon said:
As this electrical remodeling process becomes more engrained as an alternative to NSR and the heart gets more resigned to being out of rhythm, usually by roughly the six month mark of progression of the arrhythmia some degree of physical structural remodeling will often start to occur. This increase in progression. is marked by detectable fibrotic scaring of the cardiac myo-cytes lining the endothelium of the two atria (or ventricles, in the case of ventricular disease), and signal an overall progression of one’s battle with cardiac arrhythmia.

Shannon:

I got my first episode of AF around 1998, this is 2019 and I am in NSR as right now. I get episodes of AF probably once a month, sometimes more and sometimes less. After a few hours I still convert to NSR, for which I a m extremely glad. So is my heart resigned to this pattern or are there different patterns? I had an Echo done about 6 months ago and it was the same as the one I had done a couple of years ago. Of course that can all change tomorrow but for the last 20 years I am still in NSR the majority of time.

Liz

Thanks pompon and shannon for your responses, it's weird how many times my heart rhythm has 'changed' since I had my ablation.

Prior to ablation it was normal at around 65 BPM at rest. Highest it ever get was about 85-95 during exercise.

My heart rate itself has calmed back to normal in the 2 years since ablation, but my heart rhythm is up and down with the months, always changing. I have never gone back into afib, which I'm grateful for but the changes in how the ectopics feels on a weekly or monthly basis can often be as disconcerting. I feel almost like I've replaced one problem with another.

I also sometimes feel as if my heart takes long 'pauses' between beats sometimes and I've noticed that I will often have slight ectopics when I inhale too. I'm hoping a lot of this is caused by other health issues I'm having right now but it's certainly making those issues feel worse too.

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Elizabeth
Shannon said:
As this electrical remodeling process becomes more engrained as an alternative to NSR and the heart gets more resigned to being out of rhythm, usually by roughly the six month mark of progression of the arrhythmia some degree of physical structural remodeling will often start to occur. This increase in progression. is marked by detectable fibrotic scaring of the cardiac myo-cytes lining the endothelium of the two atria (or ventricles, in the case of ventricular disease), and signal an overall progression of one’s battle with cardiac arrhythmia.

Shannon:

I got my first episode of AF around 1998, this is 2019 and I am in NSR as right now. I get episodes of AF probably once a month, sometimes more and sometimes less. After a few hours I still convert to NSR, for which I a m extremely glad. So is my heart resigned to this pattern or are there different patterns? I had an Echo done about 6 months ago and it was the same as the one I had done a couple of years ago. Of course that can all change tomorrow but for the last 20 years I am still in NSR the majority of time.

Liz

Hi LIz. What is the longest episode you have had? I'm glad you are in NSR the majority of the time. This forum really shows how differently Afib affects individuals? I had my first (and only one so far) episode in November 2018. It lasted about 8 hours or so and I went back to NSR while at the ER. At the time I knew NOTHING about Afib. My big fear is another episode. Everything I read says it is progressive. Take care.

Katesshadow::

I used to be in AF around 22 hours, those episodes would come about every two or three months, now my episodes are around anywhere from 4 hrs. to 12 hours but they seem to come a little more often, I have been taking Hawthorne berry and Propafenone when going into AF and it has shorten my episodes. The Hawthorne Berry comes as, a liquid in a small bottle with a dropper, I take a dropper full and mix it in water. My Holistic doctor said it worked for him when he got an episode of AF, he said he got it one time after a strenuous workout. The Hawthorne Berry seems to calm the heart, you could try it when you feel your heart feeling a little jumpy. There used to be people that came to this board and posted different things they did to keep from getting episodes of AF, we still have a few that claim Cranberries help them as does Natto foods, George N doesn't get AF anymore due to the diet he is on. There are people that have a one time only AF due to holiday heart (drinking) or overheating, hard exercise, sometimes after surgery so don't despair you may just be a one timer.

Liz

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Elizabeth
George N doesn't get AF anymore due to the diet he is on.

Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall George ever saying that.

The notion that afib can be completely "cured" with diet, supplements, or lifestyle modifications is an attractive idea but not one I've ever heard a single credible report of happening.

Carey:

I didn't say that George said is AF was "CURED", I said due to the diet he is on he isn't getting AF which is what he has been posting, that along with stopping his strenuous exercise.

L