hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 13, 2019 10:47PM |
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Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 14, 2019 12:02AM |
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Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 14, 2019 02:54PM |
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Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 14, 2019 04:09PM |
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Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 14, 2019 04:50PM |
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Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 14, 2019 04:58PM |
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Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 15, 2019 04:02AM |
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Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 15, 2019 09:57AM |
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Brian_og
Here's another link.
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
One question I have is does it matter if you're not still in AFib? Or is this not a problem if you're in nsr? Whether the hypercoagulate state causes stasis of the blood on the laa faster and thus when you go back into nsr you get the stroke, or something else that's nothing to do with that?
Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 15, 2019 11:32AM |
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katesshadow
I don't see how this study concludes that Eliquis produces a state of hypercoagulation?
Edited to add: Read further and see that study concludes the strokes suffered by those withdrawing from NOAC was more severe.
Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 15, 2019 01:14PM |
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Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 15, 2019 01:16PM |
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Carey
I don't see how this study concludes that Eliquis produces a state of hypercoagulation?
Edited to add: Read further and see that study concludes the strokes suffered by those withdrawing from NOAC was more severe.
It doesn't conclude that, and the association with stroke severity is weak. Nothing can be concluded from this study. There is no cause and effect shown, the sample size is tiny, the confidence interval is ridiculously wide, the p value is unimpressive, and the possible confounding factors and selection biases are numerous.
I think people should be careful about drawing conclusions from studies showing that strokes happen to people who discontinue anticoagulants. That finding is not a surprise.
Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 15, 2019 02:13PM |
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katesshadow
From the link provided:
"Conclusions: Stroke that occurred after stopping oral anticoagulants, especially NOAC, and was more severe at presentation and associated with poorer outcomes."
Not saying I agree with it, but that was the wording used. I did not draw that conclusion myself. In fact, I guess I wasn't clear in my post, but I was actually questioning their methods.
Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 15, 2019 03:46PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 1,748 |
Quote
Brian_og
Here's another link.
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
One question I have is does it matter if you're not still in AFib? Or is this not a problem if you're in nsr? Whether the hypercoagulate state causes stasis of the blood on the laa faster and thus when you go back into nsr you get the stroke, or something else that's nothing to do with that?
Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 15, 2019 06:27PM |
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Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 19, 2019 08:26PM |
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Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 20, 2019 11:57AM |
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Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 20, 2019 03:16PM |
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Jackie
While I received a good report on the CT scan, when I received a copy of the results for my files about 6 weeks later, I saw there was a notation about a clot formation in the LAA. I called the EP nurse to verify and learned that - yes... at that time there was a clot in the LAA.... but apparently going back on the nattokinase dosing that I had done for years prior to the ablation had 'saved the day' for me as I was alive and well.
Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 20, 2019 04:32PM |
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Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 20, 2019 07:22PM |
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Elizabeth
The anticoagulants.stop new clots from forming, but doesn't your own body dissolve a clot once it is formed? I will have to say that Shannon had a stroke after his Watchman and he said he was on a natural anticoagulant, I think he said it was Nattonkinase. Of course as Jackie says you need to have the necessary tests of your blood to know how clots can affect you.
Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 21, 2019 12:51PM |
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Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 21, 2019 03:50PM |
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Jackie
Liz - Carey - At the time when I reported my news here, Hans thought that more likely, it was the effect of the electrocardioversion that promoted the clot formation.
Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 22, 2019 07:46PM |
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Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 22, 2019 09:09PM |
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Dean
G'day Jackie,
Those Conference links you put up on Nattokinase in April 2005 brought the memories flooding back! Great research times for all of us back then. Thanks to you and that Conference post that's when I started eating natto food every second day. Have now been afib free ever since.
As you know I tried to get other afibbers to seriously try natto food but after all this time only one other afibber has taken it seriously....”Colindo” (Colin).
I believe Colin is now a year afib free after coming from an afib burden of several attacks a month and eats natto food every second day like me.
Colin and I regularly swap research notes on natto food. I'm in Australia and he is in New Zealand across “the ditch”. We both have a suspicion it is the large dose of the phytoestrogen Genistein in the natto food that is behind out success. From PubMed Genistein reduces arterial stiffness and down regulates and alters many ion channels in the heart. Genistein is a tryosine kinase inhibitor.
We are both about to experiment with roasted soy beans too as they have greater amount of Genistein than natto food.
I will do a separate post with all the research on natto food in the near future.
Here is some of the research on Natto food and Genistein for those interested:
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
Many thanks again Jackie.
Dean
Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 23, 2019 03:36AM |
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Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 23, 2019 02:06PM |
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Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 23, 2019 02:16PM |
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Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 23, 2019 02:28PM |
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Carey
Possibly. Cardioversions have a stunning effect on the heart that can reduce blood flow in the LAA. That's why the standard advice is to continue anticoagulants for a month following a cardioversion.
Re: hypercoaguable state on withdrawal of Eliquis? April 23, 2019 04:41PM |
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Jackie
Back then, it was warfarin... and I was not told to go back on it... probably because I had resumed the NK.
.....but when, years later, the AFib revved up again as flutter, I wasn't on any Rx anticoag and had numerous ECV's... but was never told to resume taking an anticoagulant and I just continued on with my daily NK routine. The Eliquis Rx began as I prepared for ablation #2 and subsequently, #3