Is it OK to have a little alcohol now that I no longer have Afib?

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lisa s
Is alcohol a trigger?

If not, it's not a worry, IMHO.

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Brian_og
For those that have had ablations where alcohol was a trigger for their afib, do they find that it is no longer a trigger? I would hope that after the ablation it would no longer be. Anyone with that experience?

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ggheld
You seldom mention your own situation but it seems to me after your most recent Natale implant that it may be time for you to give up blood thinners, or maybe you already have.

Let us know your status, please, as the future of many may depend upon the success of you and others in your study.

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Carey

They recommend that I continue the aspirin for life, but I think that's more out of sense of "we have to do something" rather than being truly necessary.

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carey;jpeters


They recommend that I continue the aspirin for life, but I think that's more out of sense of "we have to do something" rather than being truly necessary.

I thought they said previously that wasn't necessary.

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Jackie
the general recommendation was to avoid hard liquor and if you do imbibe, then have just small amounts of wine at a time... like in a spritzer.
Jackie

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Elizabeth
Sure is weird, aspirin gets a bad rap yet Dr. Natalie says to take it for life, head-scratcher.

L

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jpeters
I thought they said previously that wasn't necessary.

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jpeters

Sure is weird, aspirin gets a bad rap yet Dr. Natalie says to take it for life, head-scratcher.

L I wonder what Boston Scientific says about it. I don't think they can afford yet another fiasco.

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tobherd
It's funny...a lot of people treat you like you still have Afib, in spite of a successful ablation, including my Cardiologist. When I called the office recently, the Physician's Asst. told me my cardiologist had rated me a 5 on the CHAD's score! While I did have high BP, it's under control with meds now...so not sure why she would rate me so high.....anyone have a similiar experience?

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tobherd
So that doesn't make sense to me on the CHAD score. What's the point of lowering your BP if they still consider that you have high BP on any measurements done?

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Also...if I don't have Afib anymore, why do I even need to have a CHAD score?

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When Dr. Natale had me on 2.5 mg. of Eliquis twice/day, my cardiologist thought that low amount did little to nothing to protect me against a possible stroke, so she increased it to double that amount. Yet I see that some people are still taking that amount....

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Carey


When Dr. Natale had me on 2.5 mg. of Eliquis twice/day, my cardiologist thought that low amount did little to nothing to protect me against a possible stroke, so she increased it to double that amount. Yet I see that some people are still taking that amount....

Your EP is wrong. Why would they make half-dose Eliquis if it did little to nothing? I would always stick with Dr. Natale's advice.

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mwcf
My reading suggests a large factor (maybe the largest factor) in ‘atrial myopathy’ (and particularly AF-associated stroke-risk) is atrial fibrosis. For example see:



I take no small degree of comfort in the fact that in August this year Prof Jais told me I had NO low voltage (fibrosis) anywhere when he mapped my atria.

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Jackie
Thanks Mike for that link. The mitochondria report I've been attempting to organize for posting here will address the myopathy topic as a symptom of underlying mitochondria dysfunction. I'm still working to condense to a readable form; otherwise, it might turn out to be book. I know you'll be interested.

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Joe
The other important step seems to be autophagy? Apoptosis is a normal process and isn't a problem as long as the body deals with it?
From my understanding, time restricted eating and/or fasting does take care of that or at least facilitates the process of autophagy?

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jpeters

The other important step seems to be autophagy? Apoptosis is a normal process and isn't a problem as long as the body deals with it?
From my understanding, time restricted eating and/or fasting does take care of that or at least facilitates the process of autophagy?

Apoptosis and oxidative stress isn't great when it's connected with inflammation:

" Chronic inflammation and oxidative stress as a major cause of age-related diseases and cancer. ... Inflammatory process induces oxidative stress and reduces cellular antioxidant capacity. Overproduced free radicals react with cell membrane fatty acids and proteins impairing their function permanently."

Autophagy when induced by controlled fasting is probably a good thing

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smackman




This is just my opinion and I mean nothing mean about it. Please write in layman’s English or do this type of discussion by Private Message. Even though I am well educated beyond High school, I have no idea what you are talking about. It’s not a forum to see who can be the most intellect with medical terms. This is basically a layman’s forum.
IMO, This helps no one.
Thanks

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jpeters





This is just my opinion and I mean nothing mean about it. Please write in layman’s English or do this type of discussion by Private Message. Even though I am well educated beyond High school, I have no idea what you are talking about. It’s not a forum to see who can be the most intellect with medical terms. This is basically a layman’s forum.
IMO, This helps no one.
Thanks

The information in the quotes is from the study, Without that, my one line comments (this isn't great, this is, etc) probably wouldn't mean much. Some of this is a bit heady.

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smackman



Way over my head and I have a masters degree in Electro Technology Engineering and I am 60 with a lot of gray hair. Lol 😂 I could talk about coding, PLC, DCS etc. Let’s keep this to where we are helping most AFIBBERS not our impressive vocabulary whether you say it or quite it.
I mean no malice.

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tobherd
So Carey Carrie...you say that high BP will kill you with or without Afib, but that wasn't the question. If you no longer have high BP because it is well controlled with meds...and you no longer have Afib (because you've had a Natale ablation), then why does BP still register on the CHADS score? And again, isn't this score for people who currently have Afib??

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Peak emptying LA appendange velocity was 41.4

So shouldn't I be able to at least take a lesser dose of Eliquis?

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Would getting a Watchman end all of the uncertainty and give enough protection to no longer have to worry?

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smackman






This is just my opinion and I mean nothing mean about it. Please write in layman’s English or do this type of discussion by Private Message. Even though I am well educated beyond High school, I have no idea what you are talking about. It’s not a forum to see who can be the most intellect with medical terms. This is basically a layman’s forum.
IMO, This helps no one.
Thanks

The information in the quotes is from the study, Without that, my one line comments (this isn't great, this is, etc) probably wouldn't mean much. Some of this is a bit heady.

Way over my head and I have a masters degree in Electro Technology Engineering and I am 60 with a lot of gray hair. Lol 😂 I could talk about coding, PLC, DCS etc. Let’s keep this to where we are helping most AFIBBERS not our impressive vocabulary whether you say it or quite it.
I mean no malice.

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Carey



Because that's how the CHADS score is applied. I didn't create it. Not being in afib certainly lowers your stroke risk, but it turns out that people who have had afib in the past have an elevated stroke risk even if they're no longer in afib. It's observations like that have led doctors to start considering afib a symptom rather than a disease in its own right. The disease is atrial myopathy and one of its symptoms is afib.


So shouldn't I be able to at least take a lesser dose of Eliquis?



Would getting a Watchman end all of the uncertainty and give enough protection to no longer have to worry?

Yes.

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Carey


Because hypertension will kill you all on its own with or without the afib.

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Carey


Because hypertension will kill you all on its own with or without the afib.

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jpeters
Curious why getting a Watchman would cure all atrial myopathy. I wondered about this also when I read about the 60% decline (in dementia) for people on AC's with afib diagnoses, since one of the possibilities included comorbidity (mini strokes by clots coming from other veins, etc, vs just the atrium?). Particularly interested myself is I'm getting past the blanking period.

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Carey

Curious why getting a Watchman would cure all atrial myopathy. I wondered about this also when I read about the 60% decline (in dementia) for people on AC's with afib diagnoses, since one of the possibilities included comorbidity (mini strokes by clots coming from other veins, etc, vs just the atrium?). Particularly interested myself is I'm getting past the blanking period.

Good question. I don't know why, but empirically Watchman devices have reduced stroke levels to the same as people who've never had had afib. Perhaps clots coming out of the LAA are more of an issue than medicine has realized?

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Carey

So Carey Carrie...you say that high BP will kill you with or without Afib, but that wasn't the question. If you no longer have high BP because it is well controlled with meds...and you no longer have Afib (because you've had a Natale ablation), then why does BP still register on the CHADS score? And again, isn't this score for people who currently have Afib??

Because that's how the CHADS score is applied. I didn't create it. Not being in afib certainly lowers your stroke risk, but it turns out that people who have had afib in the past have an elevated stroke risk even if they're no longer in afib. It's observations like that have led doctors to start considering afib a symptom rather than a disease in its own right. The disease is atrial myopathy and one of its symptoms is afib.

Peak emptying LA appendange velocity was 41.4

So shouldn't I be able to at least take a lesser dose of Eliquis?

Nope. The minimum LAA velocity to stop anticoagulants is 45. You're close enough that they're asking you to come back in 6 months on the hope it might improve.

Would getting a Watchman end all of the uncertainty and give enough protection to no longer have to worry?

Yes.

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Carey

Curious why getting a Watchman would cure all atrial myopathy. I wondered about this also when I read about the 60% decline (in dementia) for people on AC's with afib diagnoses, since one of the possibilities included comorbidity (mini strokes by clots coming from other veins, etc, vs just the atrium?). Particularly interested myself is I'm getting past the blanking period.

Good question. I don't know why, but empirically Watchman devices have reduced stroke levels to the same as people who've never had had afib. Perhaps clots coming out of the LAA are more of an issue than medicine has realized?

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rocketritch


Personally even at 45 I would be hesitant to go off the Eliquis. Or at that point would something like a daily aspirin be recommended? A 3.6 increase, unless maintained for a period of time seems a small amount to make such a decision.

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mwcf
Stating the obvious maybe, but given the current scientific consensus that fibrosis comprises an at least significant component of atrial myopathy then I’m struggling to see how a Watchman could reverse fibrosis.

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Carey

Stating the obvious maybe, but given the current scientific consensus that fibrosis comprises an at least significant component of atrial myopathy then I’m struggling to see how a Watchman could reverse fibrosis.

It doesn't. It's simply that 90% of all clots that form in the left atrium form in the LAA. So if you close the LAA you eliminate 90% of ischemic strokes. The remaining 10% are going to be clots from other sources, ruptured plaques, etc.

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jpeters
I wonder how anyone would know the exact percentage of where clots come from. That's supposed to be true for everyone?

If 90% of clots form in the LAA, that doesn't mean you eliminate 90% of ischemic strokes by sealing it off. Clots from other areas are just as likely to get released, and it only takes one.

If you did have a stroke, I guarantee that your doctor would shrug his/her shoulders regarding where it came from.

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rocketritch
Personally even at 45 I would be hesitant to go off the Eliquis. Or at that point would something like a daily aspirin be recommended? A 3.6 increase, unless maintained for a period of time seems a small amount to make such a decision.

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Brian_og
....As with TEE, flow velocities in patients imaged during sinus rhythm were higher than those imaged in AF, but were significantly depressed compared to a similarly aged cohort without a history of AF. Almost by definition, the atrial myopathy underlying AF is likely responsible for the diminished flow observed in patients with AF imaged when in sinus rhythm."

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Carey

Personally even at 45 I would be hesitant to go off the Eliquis. Or at that point would something like a daily aspirin be recommended? A 3.6 increase, unless maintained for a period of time seems a small amount to make such a decision.

I'd also be hesitant. I would want a comfortable margin above the minimum number. I've heard from others that did meet the 45 criteria that Natale said they could stop entirely if they desired but he recommended continuing either a half-dose Eliquis or low-dose aspirin.

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mwcf
So previous AF results in lower LAA velocities.

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Elizabeth
Joe:

When my EP wanted me on eliquis, he had tests run for Creatinine and Bun, also for platelets, if you have low platelets (depends on how low) probably can't be on a blood thinner.

L

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tsco
My thoughts.........as someone mentioned above, um if we are afraid to partake in a mere beverage does that really kind of reflect on our confidence in the success of our procedures?
I think alcohol triggers ectopics for me sometimes and it may be due to dehydration who knows?? I never really drink more than a couple of drinks ever. I've never smoked so I'm under the belief of ........if I want a stupid drink I'm having one, geez life's short.

Life's a game, play it to the fullest because there are no refunds! DLR

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Carey

"So previous AF results in lower LAA velocities.

No, LAA velocities only matter if your LAA has been isolated by an ablation, which the majority don't. If that hasn't happened, you can ignore the whole LAA issue."

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Carey

So previous AF results in lower LAA velocities.

No, LAA velocities only matter if your LAA has been isolated by an ablation, which the majority don't. If that hasn't happened, you can ignore the whole LAA issue.

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Carolyn23
I am trying to figure out what triggers my episodes. I thought it was alcohol but this morning I work up and an episode had started befor I could eat or drink anything.
Any ideas or has this happened to others. A first for me.episode was very mild.

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mwcf
Which seems to imply that previous AF (and presumably quite a high cumulative burden of it over many years rather than a couple of short episodes) - even when managed back to NSR with a successful ablation results in slower LAA velocities than non-AFrs. I didn't get the impression that the paragraph quoted above relates only to those who as part of their ablation/s have had their LAA ablated but I'm happy to be corrected.

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Elizabeth
I had an ECHO done this last Aug. I have had episodes of AF off and on for almost 20 years. The discussion about LA velocity probably only changes when it is isolated. My LA ef is 65%.

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smackman
The water we drink this day and time has so many byproducts made from the chlorine used to disenfect the water such as THM’s(Trihalomethanes). These is BAD.

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jpeters
Drink?

"In fact, while showering, your body absorbs 6 times the contaminants it does when you drink 8 glasses of water."

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Carey

Drink?

"In fact, while showering, your body absorbs 6 times the contaminants it does when you drink 8 glasses of water."

Who or what are you quoting?

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Carey
The US has some of the safest public water supply in the world. It's usually safer than bottled water. I'm really tired of reading alarmist crap about it aimed at drumming up sales of useless crap.

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Carey
The US has some of the safest public water supply in the world. It's usually safer than bottled water. I'm really tired of reading alarmist crap about it aimed at drumming up sales of useless crap.

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Carey
The US has some of the safest public water supply in the world. It's usually safer than bottled water. I'm really tired of reading alarmist crap about it aimed at drumming up sales of useless crap.

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jpeters
"Bottom line: A good water filter can turn ordinary tap water into a healthy and cost-effective source of pure hydration for your dog and the entire family."

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Carey

"Bottom line: A good water filter can turn ordinary tap water into a healthy and cost-effective source of pure hydration for your dog and the entire family."

"A source of pure hydration" -- what the hell does that even mean? (Answer: Nothing whatsoever.)

Not paying for water filters is even more cost effective.

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Carey
The US has some of the safest public water supply in the world. It's usually safer than bottled water. I'm really tired of reading alarmist crap about it aimed at drumming up sales of useless crap.

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Elizabeth
Its Flint not Detroit, they were OK when using Detroit water when they started using Flint water (which was contaminated by factories dumping) they got in trouble. Sure, it was political, but if you think that a lot of the big cities don't have any problems with their water, think again.

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Elizabeth
You can just click on the link in the article I posted and type in your zipcode.

What link in what article?

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rocketritch


Summer 2016, I was installing new gutters on the house.What I though was going to be a morning project was slowly turning into an all day event.My wife sensing my frustration opened a bottle of wine. She took a glass, I took the bottle. This happened twice that afternoon and my heart was a mess as was I. But as others have mentioned here, I'm not so sure it wasn't dehydration that caused my issues that particular day and not the alcohol.

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jpeters
A far more prevalent event is falling off the roof syndrome which, like many other self inflicted injuries, is highly correlated with alcohol consumption.

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rocketritch



I have 2 friends that have fallen off of ladders several times,stone sober, breaking multiple body parts. I've been pretty fortunate on the not falling from high places front. Mostly as I fear heights, which is odd for a guy that hunts from tree stands and is on the rope rescue team at work.

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jpeters

A construction guy I know with afib claims that his fear of heights is a major trigger.

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rocketritch
I have 2 friends that have fallen off of ladders several times,stone sober, breaking multiple body parts.

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Carey
My time as an EMT taught me there are some things people fear that they shouldn't, and other things they don't fear that they should. Ladders are very high on the should list.

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rocketritch
If memory serves me right death from falling from lladder statistics are pretty high.

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Carey

If memory serves me right death from falling from lladder statistics are pretty high.

[www.ehstoday.com]

"The study, published in the most recent Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR), found that falls remain a leading cause of unintentional injury mortality nationwide, and 43 percent of fatal falls in the last decade have involved a ladder."

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jpeters


If memory serves me right death from falling from lladder statistics are pretty high.

[www.ehstoday.com]

"The study, published in the most recent Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR), found that falls remain a leading cause of unintentional injury mortality nationwide, and 43 percent of fatal falls in the last decade have involved a ladder."

Just had gutters cleaned/replaced/repaired by a group of Mexican workers who were all over the roof with no ropes. Roof has serious inclines.

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Brian_og



What's the law on if they injure themselves? Would you be potentially liable?

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Carey
If a worker gets injured while doing work for you and his employer doesn't have worker's comp insurance, you become liable. I would never hire any contractor without seeing proof of worker's comp and general liability insurance.

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jpeters
"California law requires that employers, including those in the construction industry, carry workers' compensation insurance, even if they have only one employee."