![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
What is normal for the abnormal? June 25, 2018 02:52PM |
Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 129 |
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 25, 2018 03:36PM |
Admin Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 5,339 |
Quote
bolimasa
My question #1 is: Is it normal to have PACs or other arrythmia issues along with Afib? Or is that really another issue?
Quote
My ER ECG report said I had a "Nonspecific ST and T wave abnormality" when I asked the doc about this he said something to the effect of that being just a bunch of stuff they put in the report (he clearly was not going to take the time to answer my question). The 10 second ECG he did the office that day said no Afib, the T wave abnormality was gone, but now I have prolonged QT.
So Question #2: If you have Afib do you usually have a changing set of abnormalities?...
I have been taking the med he prescribed (diltiazem), which I imagine could cause changes... but I'm curious what, if anything, is kind of "normal" for a gal with Afib?
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 25, 2018 04:06PM |
Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 129 |
That is pretty much what he said... but I of course want to cover all my bases...especially if I'm heading to an ablation... and I do have my share of distrust that docs will really pay attention to everything)Quote
Carey
You should ignore the analysis printed on ECGs. It's nothing but a best guess by a machine, it's often meaningless, and doctors routinely ignore it.
Quote
Carey
Is the cardiologist you're seeing an electrophysiologist (EP)? If not, then you need to find one. EPs are cardiologists who specialize in treating abnormal heart rhythms such as afib. Think of them as electricians while regular cardiologists are plumbers. You need an electrician, not a plumber.
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 25, 2018 05:34PM |
Admin Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 5,339 |
Quote
bolimasa
Yeah he's an EP, appears to be a hot shit EP... (thus my low expectations for him spending time on my questions; at least his PA seemed decent!)) I hope he is actually good, especially if I get the ablation. [healthcare.utah.edu]
Quote
Do you have any idea what the chicken/egg answer is (I have yet to read much about PACS) Do the PACS cause the Afib or the Afib cause the PACS.... I was told 20+ years ago that I have the occasional "extra systole" (Until now I'd not noticed them in years!) and 2 inconsequential (most docs don't even notice them) murmurs... now I wonder if this was some precursur for where I am now.
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 26, 2018 12:46PM |
Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 129 |
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 26, 2018 09:08PM |
Admin Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 5,339 |
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 26, 2018 10:03PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 4,222 |
Quote
bolimasa
Does anyone address the PACs as well as the Afib?
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 27, 2018 01:10AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 444 |
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 27, 2018 02:58AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 444 |
Quote
GeorgeN
The fastest way to reduced blood pressure is multiday water fasts.
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 27, 2018 08:30AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 18,881 |
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 27, 2018 09:56AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 182 |
Quote
GeorgeN
I'm not saying my path will help anyone else, just what I did.
The takeaway from my story, isn't that what worked for me will work for anyone else,
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 27, 2018 01:13PM |
Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 129 |
Quote
GeorgeN
Does anyone address the PACs as well as the Afib?
I had my first afib episode 14 years ago next month, after that, episodes came every 10-14 days and lasted 6-9 hours, till two months in I had an episode that would not convert. It lasted 2 1/2 months and was converted with flecainide. My understanding is this puts me in the "complex" category should I need an ablation.
I convinced my EP, who wanted me to just stay in afib, to prescribe flecainide on demand. I said I would create an electrolyte supplement program as my basis for staying in NSR. He agreed to this.
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 27, 2018 01:27PM |
Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 129 |
Quote
Jackie
A key point you mention is controlling inflammation... so critical because there are so many underling sources that few realize and it's so damaging.
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 27, 2018 03:39PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 1,102 |
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 27, 2018 03:54PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 4,222 |
Quote
bolimasa
So, curious, is there a reason you did not have an ablation? Or did you simply progress quickly beyond the point where that would help?
Quote
So yeah if there is a chance an ablation might get me off blood thinners I'm considering it.... I also get the impression that you have a better chance with ablation if it's done early (Is this true?)
Quote
Of course if I do do it...and have success, I don't want it to revert... so I would like to figure out, if I can, what triggers I may have and what all I can do to keep things under control. With only 0.03% AF but 16% PACs I do think I might need to consider the PACS. It will be interesting to see what the 30 day monitor I'm wearing now says.
Quote
safib
comments. Yes, the electrolyte shifts when first adapting to ketosis, primarily caused by low insulin levels can cause afib. I knew this when I adapted 9 years ago. I did experience one afib episode as a consequence. I knowingly took that risk, weighing the benefit risk ratio for me. I'm fairly confident that with what I know now, I could avoid this with proper supplementation. Also my wife and an MD friend in NZ both adapted very slowly and had no perceived negative consequences (i.e "keto flu" an indication of these shifts). Subsequent to my adaptation, I've never had an episode because of ketosis. I've tested insulin levels below 1 and serum glucose as low as 31 mg/dL (1.7 mmol/L) without consequence. In fact with the 31 glucose, I went to the gym and set significant PR's on my lifts. My neurologist climbing buddy said he'd never seen anyone with glucose in the 30's who wasn't comatose. I told him they weren't adapted. I've done many multiday fasts including 19 5-day water fasts last year, that were weight stable.Quote
jpeters
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 27, 2018 03:57PM |
Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 129 |
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 27, 2018 04:34PM |
Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 129 |
Quote
GeorgeN
I have almost no afib, my only limitation in activity is I don't do chronic endurance activity. I'm on no meds. I do take flecainide to convert myself when I go out of rhythm. I take no blood thinners. I did for several months during my 2.5 month episode 14 years ago.
And what monitor do you like?... I get the impression the Kardia is the popular one... but someone told me about the Emay and seemed to like that it can upload to some sort of software (to store/interpret?) and that you didn't necessarily need to send traces to a doc and that it detects more heart issues than just afib... or something like that... all I remember for sure is that she liked that one better. But I rarely see that one mentioned by anyone else.Quote
GeorgeN
I found it useful to have my own monitor for more immediate feedback. I would monitor, then change things and see if PAC counts went up or down. Of course there is random variation, but I did get a sense.
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 27, 2018 05:34PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 1,102 |
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 27, 2018 06:40PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 18,881 |
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 27, 2018 09:12PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 4,222 |
Quote
bolimosa
I am confused... as I was under the impression that the docs wanted you take blood thinner for life if you were intermittent. Which it sounds like you are.
Or is is a choice you've made?
CHA2DS2-VASc Condition Points C Congestive heart failure (or Left ventricular systolic dysfunction) 1 H Hypertension: blood pressure consistently above 140/90 mmHg (or treated hypertension on medication)1 A2 Age ≥75 years 2 D Diabetes Mellitus 1 S2 Prior Stroke or TIA or thromboembolism 2 V Vascular disease (e.g. peripheral artery disease, myocardial infarction, aortic plaque) 1 A Age 65–74 years 1 Sc Sex category (i.e. female sex) 1
Quote
And what monitor do you like?... I get the impression the Kardia is the popular one... but someone told me about the Emay and seemed to like that it can upload to some sort of software (to store/interpret?) and that you didn't necessarily need to send traces to a doc and that it detects more heart issues than just afib... or something like that... all I remember for sure is that she liked that one better. But I rarely see that one mentioned by anyone else.
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 28, 2018 11:50AM |
Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 129 |
Quote
wolfpack
% of time in AF is not a valid statistic. It's hours of continuous AF. A clot can form after about 2 hours. The PIP studies are narrowing this down. The data are good and the science is sound. DO NOT USE % time in AF to guide any anticoagulation decision!
For example 2 hours of AF in one month is 0.3%, but is also quite enough to kill your brain and possibly the rest of you. If CHADS2VASC says anticoagulate, then you'd be well advised to do it after an episode exceeds a couple of hours.
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 28, 2018 12:23PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 1,102 |
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 28, 2018 01:14PM |
Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 129 |
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 28, 2018 01:58PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 1,748 |
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 28, 2018 03:26PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 18,881 |
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 28, 2018 10:02PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 4,222 |
Quote
bolimasa
the T wave abnormality was gone, but now I have prolonged QT.
So Question #2: If you have Afib do you usually have a changing set of abnormalities?...
I have been taking the med he prescribed (diltiazem), (
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 29, 2018 04:15PM |
Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 129 |
Quote
GeorgeN
the T wave abnormality was gone, but now I have prolonged QT.
So Question #2: If you have Afib do you usually have a changing set of abnormalities?...
I have been taking the med he prescribed (diltiazem), (
prolonged QT can be a side effect of diltiazem <[www.lhsc.on.ca]
Also, magnesium has been called "natures calcium channel blocker." Maybe there is a way to substitute mag in here? Not that I'm suggesting you discontinue meds without consulting a doc.
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 29, 2018 05:10PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 4,222 |
Quote
bolimasa
(though my K was at the low end of normal) but one has to always wonder if 'normal' could still be a problem causing alteration to my personal normal. (yeah, grasping at straws when the probable cause is simply pudgieness nudging up my BP)
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 29, 2018 06:07PM |
Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 129 |
Quote
GeorgeN
(though my K was at the low end of normal) but one has to always wonder if 'normal' could still be a problem causing alteration to my personal normal. (yeah, grasping at straws when the probable cause is simply pudgieness nudging up my BP)
Potassium can be an issue for us in the afib world. I know I strive to keep mine >4.0 or so. My first afib episode, I also went to the ER as I did not know what was happening. My potassium was 3.2 as I recall.
Potassium can vary rapidly. My experience is if I get magnesium correct, then potassium falls in line.
Biophysicist Richard Moore's (MD, PhD) book: <[www.amazon.com] will lay out the case that BP issues are caused by the potassium sodium ratio. He also makes the case that high insulin is a huge actor in this picture. And crazily, he then promotes a 70% carb calorie diet, which will spike insulin. A case of not seeing the forest for the trees, IMO.
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 29, 2018 10:23PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 4,222 |
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 29, 2018 10:51PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 1,102 |
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 29, 2018 11:20PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 1,748 |
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 30, 2018 01:15AM |
Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 129 |
Re: What is normal for the abnormal? June 30, 2018 07:59AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 1,102 |