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Experimentation....

Posted by Billyjeans 
Experimentation....
May 12, 2018 12:47AM
So the last try was flecanaide. Holy hell was that not a good idea. I had twice the amount of afib and the afib was very severe. Just bending over would set it off. I tried it for a couple of weeks to see if i would adjust but it just ramped everything up afib wise.
So now I'm trying 1000 mg of magnesium,500 mg of potassium and 100 mcg of K2 a day. I also pretty much cut out the metoprolol and am just taking cardizem for bp. BP is OK. (I've been doing this for about 3 weeks.
Can't see a real improvement but I have seen a change. Typically for several years now I have afib for 2 days on and 2 days off. Its almost like clockwork unless I ingest msg by mistake or drink alcohol. I easily can tell when I'm in afib as its pretty debillitating and I can easily tell when I'm not as I feel 100% better. When in afib I'm short of breath and no energy and I can feel my heart bopping all over the place.

So anyway, my heart has started a new cycle in the past week. Every day I wake up in afib and then it usually goes away by 6 pm or so.
???
Its a little exciting for me because at least its something different. Prior to this when I would go into afib it was gaurranteed to last at least a couple of days. Although I'm getting it every day, its only lasting half the day. Go figure.

I read a bunch on here about afibbers personal accounts and learned some great stuff. (thank you all BTW!)
I came to a basic consensus that mag,potassium, taurine and K2..were the primary helpers for people with afib. K2 pretty much tied them together. (as far as supplements go)
Does anyone know how long it takes to build up stores of mag and potassium? I know there is a difference between serum and bone tests but would like a general idea. I'll likely get tested sometime in the future for deficiencies.
I have also been taking PPI's for 30 years or so and I learned that PPI's significantly reduce mag absorbtion. (as well as many other unpleasant things) I tried getting off of them and it was absolute hell. (throwing up acid for days)
So is their anything else that you all think I could try supplemental wise to help? What experiments have you tried that have been successful or have failed. I'm running out of ideas here. I've tried most all of the RX drugs and none of them have helped at all. Most make everything worse.

This all started with me having a severe reaction to msg and I still do to this day. One finger tip dip of anything msg sends my heart into afib in seconds. Is there an opposite msg? he he
Re: Experimentation....
May 12, 2018 02:48AM
Mg can take months to raise levels optimally, and there is much individuality to how well it is absorbed.
Re: Experimentation....
May 12, 2018 06:05AM
About PPI's, I can say the longer you were taking them, the longer it is to get rid of them.
Make some Google search, I'm sure you'll find interesting blogs and forums explaining how to stop PPI's.
In short, it is required making the changes very gradually, helping with plants and some diet.
As you're taking PPI for a very long time, it would be wise, if you want to stop them, discussing this with your doctor.
About Mg and K, I'm feeling better taking them. I've still afib about two times a week, but the two last episodes were only 30-35min, as opposed to around 1h before.
What's K2?
Re: Experimentation....
May 12, 2018 09:26AM
PPIs have a nasty rebound effect. You have to titration down over a few days and then still you should expect up to two weeks of acid rebound until things normalize. I’ve done this myself. Now I take B12 and zinc as supplements to produce MORE stomach acid - the theory being that reflux is caused by too little stomach acid which delays gastric emptying and allows undigested food to push open the esophageal sphincter and invade the esophagus. The pH matters little once outside the stomach. pH of 4 will burn just like pH of 2, even though that is 100x less acid (pH is a logarithmic scale).
Re: Experimentation....
May 12, 2018 10:23AM
Billy - I have great empathy for you. You probably read Dean's recent post and the other contributions at this link: [www.afibbers.org]

The medical focus should be directed by a specialist who can assess and address the gastric reflux caused by the failed lower esophageal sphincter (LES) and hiatal hernia which impacts the vagus nerve. I understand your limitations with health care services available but hopefully, if you can get this type of help, it is a beginning. You already know that the PPIs and such don't correct the underlying problem. A complete nutritional evaluation would also be very useful if that service is available to you to determine your Vitamin B12 and zinc status as a start. There are more past posts on this topic in archives if you do a search on the LES and HH terms.



Go to this website and read this informative, 7 page-report by Professor Steven Rochlitz on Vagus Nerve Imbalance/Hiatal Hernia Here's a start to get you interested:

A missing link to chronic illness, allergies and longevity? Vagus Nerve Imbalance/Hiatal Hernia Syndrome
by Steve Rochlitz

Page #1

Could there be a factor either unknown, or not fully understood, by both mainstream and alternative medicine, that can initiate much chronic illness including allergies? Could there be a very dangerous condition in the body that can cause virtually every other organ of the body to malfunction? Could 85% of the population have this undetected condition? The answer is decidedly yes to each of these questions. At the end of this article, surprising, new evidence will be revealed that this factor may even be a predictor of life expectancy.

The biochemist Carey Reams, PhD, said, "Illness begins with the Vagus Nerve." The Hiatal Hernia Syndrome (HHS)--by pinching the Vagus Nerve--causes Vagus Nerve Imbalance (VNI). This imbalance is usually a hyperexcitability, but a decreased energy state is also possible at some point in time. In a Hiatus Hernia, or Hiatal Hernia, the upper portion of the stomach protrudes through the opening (hiatus) in the diaphragm muscle. I urge the reader to go beyond any preconceived notions that this condition only causes GERD (acid reflux) and minor discomfort, and to read this article in its entirety before judging this work. My own recent research will be described for the first time, after reviewing one pioneering clinician's findings.

This article will reveal how this condition, Vagus Nerve Imbalance/ Hiatal Hernia Syndrome, which I will abbreviate as VNI/HHS, can cause so many other maladies and symptoms, and how it can cause many other organs to malfunction. Then I will describe testing to uncover the VNI/HHS, and finally, how to treat this insidious malady with various modalities. These methods include manipulations to rapidly correct (bring down) the stomach, as well as nutrition, diet and lifestyle changes. Health practitioners and/or patients can learn the crucial manipulations.

The pioneering physician, Theodore Baroody, DC, ND, PhD, after treating thousands of patients for many other illnesses, calls the Hiatal Hernia Syndrome, "the mother of all illness." (1) He states that nearly "every [non-infectious] condition (except trauma) is the direct result of some digestive dysfunction." (2) He writes that the Hiatal Hernia Syndrome is "dangerous ... and brings about ... constant imbalances ... that lead to all maladies known to mankind." (3) He has found that over 85% of all of his patients--when tested--have a Hiatal Hernia! He further postulates that about "85% of the overall populace" has the HHS! My own clientele, mostly sufferers of severe fatigue/fibromyalgia and extreme food, chemical, and electromagnetic sensitivities have the Hiatal Hernia Syndrome over 90% of the time. It's no coincidence. Baroody's findings are described in his brilliant opus, Hiatal Hernia Syndrome: Insidious Link to Major Illness. Simply put, if one considers finding the initiating cause of chronic, degenerative illness a key factor in medicine, this is one of the great works in the medical literature. I cannot blame the reader for any initial disbelief, as both Baroody and myself are often "mindboggled" to see again and again how seemingly unrelated illnesses or symptoms are often immediately relieved when "the stomach is brought down." The difficulty in seeing all this clearly often arises because many factors can prevent the stomach from "staying down." But Baroody's, and my own, techniques can help make this change last, and thus the improvement in these many, seemingly unrelated conditions will be clear. Also, I might not have believed this myself if I hadn't, (unfortunately), lived through it; and, as a physicist, insisted on uncovering the most primary causes of my own problems.

As stated above, Hiatal Hernia refers to the stomach's protrusion through the opening, (hiatus), in the diaphragm muscle. Wellness can ultimately only return when the diaphragm's hole (hiatus), has been repaired and the stomach can no longer jump up. This can take months of continuously doing everything just right. The key to an enlightened understanding of the VNI/ HHS is that the amount of stomach protrusion is often irrelevant. In many people, serious illness begins unfolding even if the amount of protrusion, (the Hiatal Hernia), is "small," as found, for example by X-ray. In many sufferers, any such protrusion causes major hyperexcitability of the Vagus Nerve. The extensive Vagus Nerve is so diverse and so interconnected to so many organs that it has been nicknamed the "wanderer." The slightest upward displacement of the stomach through the diaphragm disorders the Vagus Nerve. Immediately, the stomach no longer is able to produce the proper amount of hydrochloric acid. The entire digestive process is then adversely affected. The final result is often that the entire body will become too acid.

From an imbalanced Vagus Nerve, any other organ can begin to malfunction depending on genetic weakness and various other factors. Of course, the diaphragm itself will be directly affected and breathing normally no longer occurs. Other openings in the diaphragm--now stretched or torn--allow the major blood vessels to and from the heart to pass through it. Thus spasms in the abdominal aorta and inferior vena cava can occur in rare cases. Indeed, Baroody's 6th edition of his book, reveals kinesiological (muscle) tests for two separate "stuck diaphragm" conditions related to abdominal aorta and inferior vena cava imbalances. (4) The heart itself can be crowded, and pressed on by the stomach, being "where it doesn't belong." These last factors and the direct hyperexcitability of the Vagus Nerve's connection to the heart, leads to many Emergency Room visits and "pseudoheart attack" symptoms of chest pain, difficulty breathing and left arm numbness. The reader, if experiencing these complaints, should seek emergency medical care, and not assume they are arising from the HHS. There is a remarkable similarity between Hiatal Hernia Syndrome and angina. Both can cause similar symptoms and both can occur after similar events such as overeating, exercise, and heavy lifting. My own hypothesis is that the Hiatal Hernia Syndrome, if uncorrected, may sometimes eventually become true angina. Other factors that might make this more likely include smoking, dehydration and other nutritional deficiencies.
Continue: [castlehighkingdom.proboards.com]

Jackie
Re: Experimentation....
May 12, 2018 03:57PM
Pompon - do a search here on MK7 or Menaquinone 7 - the form of vitamin K that helps keep circulating serum calcium from depositing in soft tissue like arteries or make bone spurs and directs it to bone tissue to keep healthy and strong.

All the famed research on MK7 came out of University of Maastricht - PhD researchers Cees Vermeer and Leon Schurgers... presented the benefits of MK7 and have written about MenaQ... There are numerous past posts that give the links to more info from these researchers. If you can't find them, let me know.

You can take MK7 as part of a vitamin K 'multi' vitamin or separately just as MK7. Most advice indicates that at least 100 mcg is the minimum and preferably closer to 200 mcg. Since MK7 is not involved in the clotting mechanism, it does not interfere with that... if it's the MK7 form only. the combo Vitamin K products include the K1 and both forms of the K2 so when on warfarin, best to avoid the K1.

Jackie
Re: Experimentation....
May 13, 2018 05:34AM
Quote
Jackie
Pompon - do a search here on MK7 or Menaquinone 7 - the form of vitamin K that helps keep circulating serum calcium from depositing in soft tissue like arteries or make bone spurs and directs it to bone tissue to keep healthy and strong.

All the famed research on MK7 came out of University of Maastricht - PhD researchers Cees Vermeer and Leon Schurgers... presented the benefits of MK7 and have written about MenaQ... There are numerous past posts that give the links to more info from these researchers. If you can't find them, let me know.

You can take MK7 as part of a vitamin K 'multi' vitamin or separately just as MK7. Most advice indicates that at least 100 mcg is the minimum and preferably closer to 200 mcg. Since MK7 is not involved in the clotting mechanism, it does not interfere with that... if it's the MK7 form only. the combo Vitamin K products include the K1 and both forms of the K2 so when on warfarin, best to avoid the K1.

Jackie

Thanks a lot, Jackie. I'll google this.
Re: Experimentation....
May 17, 2018 02:18PM
Quote
Jackie
Billy - I have great empathy for you. You probably read Dean's recent post and the other contributions at this link: [www.afibbers.org]

The medical focus should be directed by a specialist who can assess and address the gastric reflux caused by the failed lower esophageal sphincter (LES) and hiatal hernia which impacts the vagus nerve. I understand your limitations with health care services available but hopefully, if you can get this type of help, it is a beginning. You already know that the PPIs and such don't correct the underlying problem. A complete nutritional evaluation would also be very useful if that service is available to you to determine your Vitamin B12 and zinc status as a start. There are more past posts on this topic in archives if you do a search on the LES and HH terms.



Go to this website and read this informative, 7 page-report by Professor Steven Rochlitz on Vagus Nerve Imbalance/Hiatal Hernia Here's a start to get you interested:

A missing link to chronic illness, allergies and longevity? Vagus Nerve Imbalance/Hiatal Hernia Syndrome
by Steve Rochlitz

Page #1

Could there be a factor either unknown, or not fully understood, by both mainstream and alternative medicine, that can initiate much chronic illness including allergies? Could there be a very dangerous condition in the body that can cause virtually every other organ of the body to malfunction? Could 85% of the population have this undetected condition? The answer is decidedly yes to each of these questions. At the end of this article, surprising, new evidence will be revealed that this factor may even be a predictor of life expectancy.

The biochemist Carey Reams, PhD, said, "Illness begins with the Vagus Nerve." The Hiatal Hernia Syndrome (HHS)--by pinching the Vagus Nerve--causes Vagus Nerve Imbalance (VNI). This imbalance is usually a hyperexcitability, but a decreased energy state is also possible at some point in time. In a Hiatus Hernia, or Hiatal Hernia, the upper portion of the stomach protrudes through the opening (hiatus) in the diaphragm muscle. I urge the reader to go beyond any preconceived notions that this condition only causes GERD (acid reflux) and minor discomfort, and to read this article in its entirety before judging this work. My own recent research will be described for the first time, after reviewing one pioneering clinician's findings.

This article will reveal how this condition, Vagus Nerve Imbalance/ Hiatal Hernia Syndrome, which I will abbreviate as VNI/HHS, can cause so many other maladies and symptoms, and how it can cause many other organs to malfunction. Then I will describe testing to uncover the VNI/HHS, and finally, how to treat this insidious malady with various modalities. These methods include manipulations to rapidly correct (bring down) the stomach, as well as nutrition, diet and lifestyle changes. Health practitioners and/or patients can learn the crucial manipulations.

The pioneering physician, Theodore Baroody, DC, ND, PhD, after treating thousands of patients for many other illnesses, calls the Hiatal Hernia Syndrome, "the mother of all illness." (1) He states that nearly "every condition (except trauma) is the direct result of some digestive dysfunction." (2) He writes that the Hiatal Hernia Syndrome is "dangerous ... and brings about ... constant imbalances ... that lead to all maladies known to mankind." (3) He has found that over 85% of all of his patients--when tested--have a Hiatal Hernia! He further postulates that about "85% of the overall populace" has the HHS! My own clientele, mostly sufferers of severe fatigue/fibromyalgia and extreme food, chemical, and electromagnetic sensitivities have the Hiatal Hernia Syndrome over 90% of the time. It's no coincidence. Baroody's findings are described in his brilliant opus, Hiatal Hernia Syndrome: Insidious Link to Major Illness. Simply put, if one considers finding the initiating cause of chronic, degenerative illness a key factor in medicine, this is one of the great works in the medical literature. I cannot blame the reader for any initial disbelief, as both Baroody and myself are often "mindboggled" to see again and again how seemingly unrelated illnesses or symptoms are often immediately relieved when "the stomach is brought down." The difficulty in seeing all this clearly often arises because many factors can prevent the stomach from "staying down." But Baroody's, and my own, techniques can help make this change last, and thus the improvement in these many, seemingly unrelated conditions will be clear. Also, I might not have believed this myself if I hadn't, (unfortunately), lived through it; and, as a physicist, insisted on uncovering the most primary causes of my own problems.

As stated above, Hiatal Hernia refers to the stomach's protrusion through the opening, (hiatus), in the diaphragm muscle. Wellness can ultimately only return when the diaphragm's hole (hiatus), has been repaired and the stomach can no longer jump up. This can take months of continuously doing everything just right. The key to an enlightened understanding of the VNI/ HHS is that the amount of stomach protrusion is often irrelevant. In many people, serious illness begins unfolding even if the amount of protrusion, (the Hiatal Hernia), is "small," as found, for example by X-ray. In many sufferers, any such protrusion causes major hyperexcitability of the Vagus Nerve. The extensive Vagus Nerve is so diverse and so interconnected to so many organs that it has been nicknamed the "wanderer." The slightest upward displacement of the stomach through the diaphragm disorders the Vagus Nerve. Immediately, the stomach no longer is able to produce the proper amount of hydrochloric acid. The entire digestive process is then adversely affected. The final result is often that the entire body will become too acid.

From an imbalanced Vagus Nerve, any other organ can begin to malfunction depending on genetic weakness and various other factors. Of course, the diaphragm itself will be directly affected and breathing normally no longer occurs. Other openings in the diaphragm--now stretched or torn--allow the major blood vessels to and from the heart to pass through it. Thus spasms in the abdominal aorta and inferior vena cava can occur in rare cases. Indeed, Baroody's 6th edition of his book, reveals kinesiological (muscle) tests for two separate "stuck diaphragm" conditions related to abdominal aorta and inferior vena cava imbalances. (4) The heart itself can be crowded, and pressed on by the stomach, being "where it doesn't belong." These last factors and the direct hyperexcitability of the Vagus Nerve's connection to the heart, leads to many Emergency Room visits and "pseudoheart attack" symptoms of chest pain, difficulty breathing and left arm numbness. The reader, if experiencing these complaints, should seek emergency medical care, and not assume they are arising from the HHS. There is a remarkable similarity between Hiatal Hernia Syndrome and angina. Both can cause similar symptoms and both can occur after similar events such as overeating, exercise, and heavy lifting. My own hypothesis is that the Hiatal Hernia Syndrome, if uncorrected, may sometimes eventually become true angina. Other factors that might make this more likely include smoking, dehydration and other nutritional deficiencies.
Continue: [castlehighkingdom.proboards.com]

Jackie

That was a good read. Thanks!
Re: Experimentation....
May 17, 2018 02:34PM
Experimentation temporarily suspended. I'm doing too much at once and I can't tell whats helping and whats not. I'm now going to start a journal and just try one thing at a time. I've been in afib for a few days now and I have no idea if I innitiated it or not. I ate dinner and took some supplements and started a fib about a 1/2 hour later. I usually get it at night when I'm asleep. Anyway, I think I'm causing more afib and more confusion by taking to many supplements at once so I'm stopping for now.
Re: Experimentation....
May 18, 2018 08:09AM
Billyjeans. You are definitely correct that you need to do a log and add one supplement at a time. Priority #1 would be to optimize your intracellular magnesium levels.... work up to bowel tolerance and maintain just under that symptom for several months until you recognize what depletes the Mg stores ...ie, stress is a big contributor. Low magnesium is typically the #1 deficit in afibbers. Also, avoid calcium supplements and limit calcium-containing foods while you are working on the magnesium optimization. (Calcium being excitatory to heart cells... whereas Mg is relaxing.)

In the meantime, you can be mindful of your dietary intake of potassium containing foods... and also sodium which would offset the benefits of potassium. Also try to eat clean... avoid packaged, processed, commercially prepared foods so you have the nutritional benefits of whole foods. Many people already have a good potassium intake and if they add supplemental potassium, they will experience ectopics and outright afib. If you have access to a Functional Medicine practitioner, you can have a Metabolic Profile test that assesses all your nutrient status so that makes the experimenting time more accurate.

Remember to hydrate well and often with pure water... avoiding purification chemicals if at all possible.

Good luck with your project.

Jackie
Re: Experimentation....
May 18, 2018 04:35PM
Quote
Jackie
Billyjeans. You are definitely correct that you need to do a log and add one supplement at a time. Priority #1 would be to optimize your intracellular magnesium levels.... work up to bowel tolerance and maintain just under that symptom for several months until you recognize what depletes the Mg stores ...ie, stress is a big contributor. Low magnesium is typically the #1 deficit in afibbers. Also, avoid calcium supplements and limit calcium-containing foods while you are working on the magnesium optimization. (Calcium being excitatory to heart cells... whereas Mg is relaxing.)

In the meantime, you can be mindful of your dietary intake of potassium containing foods... and also sodium which would offset the benefits of potassium. Also try to eat clean... avoid packaged, processed, commercially prepared foods so you have the nutritional benefits of whole foods. Many people already have a good potassium intake and if they add supplemental potassium, they will experience ectopics and outright afib. If you have access to a Functional Medicine practitioner, you can have a Metabolic Profile test that assesses all your nutrient status so that makes the experimenting time more accurate.

Remember to hydrate well and often with pure water... avoiding purification chemicals if at all possible.

Good luck with your project.

Jackie


Thats exactly what I'm going to do. Thanks Jackie. You are a wealth of information. smiling smiley
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