Blood thinners

Has anyone here taking blood thinners having any problems? I have read a couple of books by Joe Graedon and Teresa Graedon of the Peoples Pharmacy Guide, they have a site on line which has quite a bit on blood thinners.

[www.peoplespharmacy.com]

liz

I was on a NOAC for a month and had a rectal bleed....toilet full of blood. Went to emergency and they did zip. I had two lone atrial fibs, one in 2005 and one in 2007 and they spontaneously went away within a few hours. Now I have premature atrial complexes all of a sudden and the doc put me on a NOAC. Not sure I should even BE on one since I am not actively in afib. I have requested an echocardiogram, EKG to see if I am able to get the atrial complexes ablated. Also, it seems I had some kidney and liver injury according to blood tests. NOACs can do this. I may go back on one at a very low amount as with 10 mg rivaroxaban works as well as the higher doses and without so much bleeding. I don't know. My sister is on plavix (clopideral) with no problems and she has stage 4 breast cancer. I suspect I may go that route or just plain baby aspirin (altho aspirin causes more bleeding than NOACs.....seemingly.....but I didn't have any big rectal bleeds on aspirin now did I).

Tarantula, you're right that aspirin causes more bleeding than NOACs. It's also significantly less effective at preventing clots due to afib than the NOACs. And maybe most importantly, the effects of aspirin last a full 8 to 9 days and there is no reversal agent. The effects of NOACs disappear within about 24-48 hours.

The fact that you had a minor rectal bleed may or may not be related to the NOAC. I know it looked like a lot of blood, but I say minor because the ER didn't feel compelled to do anything about it, which is true of most rectal bleeds. Trust me, you didn't want them doing surgery unless you really, really needed it.

Whether someone should take anticoagulants depends more on their CHADSVasc score than whether they're actively in afib or not. If your CHADSVasc score is higher than 2, your risk of a stroke is higher than your risk of a bleed, so it makes no sense to decline anticoagulants or substitute a more dangerous anticoagulant like aspirin if your score is over 2. The higher that score goes, the more true that is. Also, the mere fact that you've had afib episodes even just a few times means you have an atrial substrate that is more likely to form clots. This is apparent from stroke statistics that show a large percentage of afibbers who suffer strokes were not in afib when the stroke happened or anytime recently.

The bottom line is that strokes caused by afib are the most deadly strokes, and when they're not lethal they're the most devastating. Bleeds, on the other hand, even with NOACs or warfarin, are rarely fatal and can usually be managed without surgery.

Liz - we've discussed these risks for those of us who have slightly low platelet count... and also the age risk factor.
Since you and I are over 80, it makes sense to pay attention to the precautions offered by knowledgeable people well-versed in the complications. I view this as a Catch 22 situation. Note in this report, it addresses advancing age and the brain hemorrhage risk factor. [www.sciencedaily.com]

I've done considerable reading on the topic for my own peace of mind since I've been on half-dose Eliquis since 2015 and full dose for two years prior. I understand all the factors involved and would really prefer managing the blood viscosity factor via natural means that reduce inflammatory factors that cause blood to become hyperviscous with the tendency to clot more readily... especially when it becomes somewhat stagnated during an arrhythmia event. I definitely would not consider using aspirin.

I'll report one very obvious side effect I notice with the half-dose of Eliquis. It's not uncommon to have a red blotch appear just under the surface of my upper arm after having a blood pressure cuff inflated... especially with the automatic equipment. It never breaks through the skin or spreads or seeps blood, but is just like some blood seeped to just below the surface after a small blood vessel ruptures from the intense pressure. Sometimes those appear even when I haven't had the Bp cuff. The mark eventually turns to a brown blotch the same size but remains clearly visible on my arm. Now I have multiple evidence marks on both arms. Hmmmm.

To help strengthen the quality of blood vessels, I'm supporting vascular tissue with liposomal vitamin C and a other nutrients in a product called VesselForte(TM) that functions to keep blood vessels healthy by supporting optimal blood and lymph circulation, strength and elasticity and provides anti-inflammatory and also, anti-oxidant benefits.

If I cut or scrape my hand or finger, the bleeding is abundant, but with pressure and essential oils, stops fairly quickly and is a non-event. (The nosebleed was another story and that resolved once I increase the humidity.)

Jackie

Jackie:

I guess it depends on which study you read, aspirin, and all the other blood thinners are bad. The only way out in my thinking is the Watchman Device, then blood thinners will go into the junk heap where they belong.



[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

Liz

Also, about aspirin, my husband took aspirin, 2 or 4 a day, we were married for 27 years, he also took them before our marriage, he had an old football injury. He never had any bleeding problems but he did eventually get kidney problems which I understand aspirin could cause. But he took a lot of aspirin, most people don't take that amount, he also had diabetes.

Liz

Hello Liz, hope you are well. My heartfelt sympathy about your husband's death. Mine died as well, some years ago now, but of alcohol and cigarettes.

But returning to the subject of aspirin, my father,[gone now, bless him,] had an undiagnosed and untreated shoulder injury that hurt him a lot. He would buy aspirin in megabottles and take it , so help me, by the handful. Just tip out as much as one hand would hold, tip them into his mouth, and dry-swallow the lot. He did get medical care toward the end of his life, but no attention was apparently paid to his shoulder. I was told by some doctor of his that he did not have diabetes and had no kidney problems. His hearing was not perfect but he could understand me if nobody else. So all the troubles aspirin can cause did not, apparently, happen to him, i do not know why. Personally i do not do things just because daddy did them, i might not have been cut from that same sturdy cloth. I am not sure about it of course, but it seems to me they are not making men like my dad any more.

PeggyM

Peggy:

Thank you, my husband also died a number of years ago. As to aspirin, it is getting a bad rap now, probably because doctors want everyone on blood thinners. How are you doing, are you on blood thinners? I have been thinking of having a watchman device put in as I can't take blood thinners, but funny thing once they put in the Watchman you have to be on aspirin for life, I find that strange, first it is not good then it is.

Liz

Have been taking one or another of the new blood thinners for many years now, no trouble of any kind from any of them so far.

PeggyM

Aspirin is getting a bad rap because it deserves a bad rap. It's not particularly effective at preventing strokes due to afib, it carries significant bleed risks, it's very dangerous for children and adolescents, and it can cause stomach ulceration. People like to think it's safer than anticoagulants, but that's just not true. It's every bit as dangerous, if not more so. In fact, if it were discovered today, there's no way it would be available without prescription.