Me, MSG & AF

Hi folks,

Bit of an update really.

Vagal (95% nocturnal) PAFr since 1999 (likely earlier back to 1987 but undiagnosed) now age 55 6'4" tall 50' chest 35" waist 220 pounds. Fairly healthy overall main achilles heel historically reflux. Familial 'LAF' on mother's side of family (she's had PAF since age 35 and she's now a reasonably fit 77 year-old - she has never had an ablation and not much in the way of drugs other than anticoagulation but didn't go permanent until age 70).

AF kept quite well under control by daily Flecainide (75mg am and 100mg pm) last 8 years - average 2 to 3 one or so hour episodes per year (always converted by extra 200mg Flec in around an hour or so).

2014 two episodes - one after Chinese food...
2015 one episode (4th June) after Chinese food…………..

Nothing this year (was hoping to get to one year AF-free!) until 8-30pm yesterday after (an extremely 'suspiciously' tasty!) 125g bag of Snyder's Jalapeño Pretzel Pieces 1.5 hrs earlier. Loaded with modified starch, E621 (MSG) E627 and E631 and other 'flavourings'. (200mg Flec a lie down and sweet NSR within 1 hour.)

Definitely and undeniably a strong MSG reaction a fib-wise for me.

Just thought I'd share the finding/info. Wondering if the MSG reaction is more a vagal (me) or adrenergic or both groups thing.

Best to all,

Mike F.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2016 02:09AM by afibbers.

Hi Mike,

You may recall Fran Ross's posts on MSG. A summary starts on page 4 here: <[www.afibbers.org] .

Glad to here you are doing well!

Cheers,

George

Hi Mike! Good to see you posting and that you've done so very well. A huge factor in helping prevent afib is recognizing your triggers.

Obviously, the MSG is a culprit but also consider that the foods you mention might also be quite high in sodium and if you're marginal in potassium when you eat them, it's almost guaranteed.

Best to you,
Jackie

Thanks George and Jackie.

Should emphasise that 3 of my last 4 episodes were firmly in my opinion down to MSG. I should have specifically stressed that the ONLY 2 times I've had Chinese T/A this last 3 years I've had early am AF BOTH times afterwards. Not as though I have eaten Chinese T/A every week this last 3 years and had AF twice afterwards. So hardly a coincidence. And now backed up with this latest episode after the first large bag of MSG-laden crispy snacks I've had in recent years (normally quite choosey with snacks to avoid MSG and similar. So a 100% definite correlation IMO.

Hoping you guys are doing well too.

Best,

Mike F

Hello Mike, here are specifics you need to know, MSG's "mechanism of a action" that Fran Ross came to understand through neurosurgeon Russell Blaylock's classic 1996 Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills. I recall excerpting for her parts of the section on MSG, how it causes NMDA receptors [en.wikipedia.org] in neural membranes to open Calcium channels, flooding the neurons with excitatory Calcium. A really important part of that section in Dr. Blaylock's book is that Magnesium blocks the Calcium channels so that MSG can't wreak it's havoc. Fran cured her truly horrible situation (near death seizures in addition to AF) by eliminating exposure to excitotoxins in general by preparing and consuming only select whole foods. In particular I recall her focus on excitotoxic glutamate.

The recommendation is to be sure your intra-cellular (not RBCells) magnesium is within the range 34 to 42 mEq/L. See also [www.afibbers.org]

My copy of the good Dr's book got lost in the shuffle some time ago, now I want it back. Free pages, description, reviews: [www.amazon.com]
===================

Re: Dr. Blaylock's Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills, Lloyd Cresci writes:

In memory of Katrina ByLloyd G. Cresci, Jr. on January 2, 2010

Outstanding book, well written, informative, one that I got my hands on too late. You see, on March 9th of 1999, my 15-year-old daughter had a heart attack. On March 11th, they told she had zero chance of recovery. She passed away at 5:00PM on the 11th. If I had read the book earlier we would have eliminated aspartic acid and glutamic acid from our diets like this book recommends. One of the symptoms of ingestion of those excototoxins is arrhythmia (the type of heart attack my daughter had) which is listed in the book. On the day my daughter had her heart attack she had pizza and diet soda laced with the excitotoxins listed in this book. Had I gotten the book earlier my daughter might still be alive. If you haven't read the book you should, expecially if there's someone on Earth that you love.
===================

Be well !

Erling Mørk



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2016 11:49AM by Moerk.

Thanks for the technical explanation.

Board-Certified Cardiologist, Thomas E. Levy, MD, JD. and author of Death by Calcium, (2013) shares the importance for overall health and longevity by optimizing magnesium to counteract calcium’s toxicity in this 2 minute video clip. Much more, obviously in his very important and timely book. [www.youtube.com]

Jackie

Hello again, Mike

I just saw in a magazine report talking about “Eat This, Not That” that a bowl of P.F. Chang’s Hot and Sour Soup comes with an astounding 7,980 mg of sodium… which is just totally mind-boggling. I thought of your comments/ AF experiences about eating Chinese food so it may be both the MSG and the extraordinarily high sodium content.

I thought it might be a misprint, but Google confirms. [www.calorieking.com]

If that’s a typical example, anyone with arrhythmia or hypertension should go out of their way to avoid eating Asian commercially prepared food.

Jackie

Wow Jackie, that's a huge load of sodium for one dish at PF Changs. I haven't eaten there in many years and will scratch it off my list going forward.

Shannon

Thanks for the further responses.

I recall having IC testing a few years ago (Exotest?) and IIRC my Mg was below bottom of range (33 or so) and Ca about double top of range..... AF is familial on my mother's side for me and I guess that that predisposition muct be IC mg/Ca-related. Tough to change one's genes! OK so genes need to express but sometimes I'm guessing extremely hard or impossible to stop that happening. For me MSG very excitory in a way that excessive salt per se definitely isn't based on my experience at least. I recall some folks here - Pat Chambers included - doing everything he could to raise IC Mg - incl. regular IM Mg injections - and hardly being able to lift his IC Mg off bottom of range. Not meaning to sound negative/a quitter, but maybe for some/many/most of us one's intrisic make-up just can't be meaningfully changed by lifestyle modifications.

Best to all,

Mike F.

Hi Mike - the elevated calcium and marginal magnesium is obviously a huge problem for afibbers and for others, in general, because of the resultant tendency for arterial calcifications.

There have been previous posts talking about the new science that explores methods to overcome gene expression... specifically the work by Bruce Lipton (Biology of Belief) who says "we no longer have to be held hostage to our genes."

Check out these links on the topic:
[www.brucelipton.com]
[www.totalhealthmagazine.com]

A google search produces many more links.

Keep pushing the magnesium and do all you can to reduce sources of calcium.

Best to you,
Jackie

Mike - I should also add as a reminder about difficulty in repleting optimal stores of magnesium, these potential interferences clips from the Magnesium Absorption and Assimilation report

2. Health of the gut wall or intestinal transfer area
(Mg transfer or intestinal absorption can be decreased, impaired or blocked by inflammation, irritable bowel syndrome (IBS), intestinal mucosal diseases such as celiac, Crohn’s, pancreatic insufficiency, blocked intestinal villi, Candida albicans overgrowth, inflammatory reactions due to gluten/gliaden/casein proteins, vitamin D deficiency; and frequently, formation of insoluble magnesium soaps in the stool due to complexing of magnesium with unabsorbed fats,… and obviously, in the case of surgical bowel resection).

3. Outer cell membrane status (cell envelope or phospholipids layer) affecting Mg receptor sites
(When the cell envelope becomes stiff, hard, crimped and damaged from saturated and trans fat accumulations, that rigid membrane affects receptor site function and prevent nutrients from access or entry inside cells….frequently seen in insulin resistant and diabetic patients who have dysglycemia because they don’t have enough magnesium to manage glucose efficiently). If the nutrient can't get in, it can’t work.

5. Wasters and/or high utilizers of magnesium
(Some genetic issues or errors in metabolism cause Mg wasting; includes selected inheritable disorders - Barters and Gittleman’s or congenital renal magnesium wasting; primary and secondary aldosteronism; high Mg requirements (diabetics) and heavy exercisers with high activity levels, and gene flaws specific to AF. Exercise can increase the metabolic demand for certain minerals – magnesium and zinc most prevalent. Urinary Mg loss can increase by up to 30% following a session of strenuous exercise. Exercise when magnesium deficient can be dangerous. Stress-induced MgD includes exercise and free radical generation.)

6. Interferences from food, drugs, alcohol, hormones, other supplements
(Frequent consumption of alcohol, coffee, food components ie, phytates, phosphorous, fiber, saturated fats, tannins, polyphenols can block or decrease mineral absorption. Antacids, anti-inflammatories, antibiotics, diuretics, or hormone replacement can cause considerable depletion of magnesium. Digoxin, Amiodarone and Betapace (sotalol) are known depleters of Mg.(4) High-dose calcium supplements compete as do calcium-containing antacids like Tums; consuming large quantities of caffeine and alcohol can deplete magnesium – ie, diuretic effect.)

7. Hypokalemia
(Low potassium levels can increase urinary magnesium excretion)

8.Taurine insufficiency – renal wasting
(Taurine spares magnesium globally – Mg wasting can result from taurine insufficiency.) (Genova
Diagnostics)

9. Magnesium can be lost from both the kidneys and intestine.
(A large factor is “volume diarrhea” but would also include laxative abuse and alcoholism.)

10. Body size
(Depending on the size of the individual, the larger the magnesium pool in the body, the lower the
magnesium absorption, regardless of the source)
======

Today, with the emphasis on the health of the Microbiome, it makes sense to pay attention to anything that would imbalance or offset the beneficial bacteria in the GI tract to be sure that the nutrients one takes in actually can reach target cells. The intestinal lumen or portals that allow the transfer of nutrients from food to blood depend on aid from the microbiome to maintain healthy intestinal cells. Additionally, once the nutrients are delivered to target cells, the next challenge is gaining access to inside the cell so the cell's outer envelope...phospholipid layer needs to be healthy and functional as well.

DISCUSSION -- ABSORPTION
Bioavailability means how readily and easily it is absorbed across the gut lumen or intestinal wall and ultimately becomes available for biological activity in your cells and tissues. Another important factor for consideration is when using higher doses (therapeutic) amounts, what might be the side effects of elevated amounts of the ligand itself; i.e., citrate in the case of Mg citrate or chloride, in the case of Mg chloride. (Hyperchloremia is an electrolyte imbalance and is indicated by a high level of chloride in the blood. The normal adult value for chloride is 97-107 mEq/L. Inability of the kidneys to process or regulate excess chloride may be an important factor in some individuals.)

An understanding of nutrient metabolism is helpful. Nutrient molecules are bound together with other molecules and these are called ligands; ie, chloride, citrate, glycinate…in some forms of magnesium. True chelated bonds are strong. Non-chelated bonds are typically loose and break apart easily. Very simplistically, water, food and various beverages consumed pass to the stomach where they are mixed with digestive enzymes and stomach acid. Along with the food comes chemical additives, preservatives, pesticide residues and impurities and chemicals in water. Various molecules arrive in one form, are dissociated or broken apart and are free to combine with other molecules where they can become an entirely different compound. In the stomach, everything becomes a chemical soup (chyme). Eventually, everything passes out of the stomach to the small intestine, (duodenum, jejunum and ileum), the major sites of absorption where competition begins for access into the blood (and ultimately inside cells). Each component must have a carrier protein to facilitate crossing the intestinal lumen at the sites of absorption. Competition is high for carrier proteins. Various food components such as phytates, lignans, fats, tannins, phosphorous, polyphenols and fiber will prevent, block or bind to elements and can either prevent or limit varying amounts absorbed into the blood where nutrients and other chemical compounds access entry into cells. Proteins may be in short supply as carriers. Many nutrients do manage to get through but not always nearly as much as one might think or in forms that are not useful so the amount consumed may not actually be absorbed.

In the case of non-chelated compounds and/or pseudo chelated compounds, when they break apart in the stomach and finally reach the absorption sites in the in gut wall, they have the same competition for carrier proteins etc. However, the true amino acid chelate form quickly flows through the gut wall – intact, because it already has the protein carrier in the chelated amino acid form and needs no further chemical reaction. The glycine amino acid chelate is a very small amino acid molecule so it flows through quickly and easily.

Many veteran afibbers experimenting with magnesium supplementation have successfully combined a variety of forms… the topical magnesium chloride oil, magnesium citrate used in laxatives, magnesium gluconate, magnesium bicarbonate as in the Waller Water, older forms like Slo Mag (Mg chloride plus calcium), Epsom Salts soaks (magnesium sulfate)…and newer forms including malic acid; and this is, of course, fine, as the only goal we seek is to achieve and sustain normal sinus rhythm (NSR). What works for one person, may not work at all for another. Since the true Albion chelated form offers the best chance of reaching the target cells intact, it makes sense to try that form first.

A 2007 research paper “Intestinal Inflammation caused by Magnesium Deficiency” indicates significant functional changes in the small intestine and in remote organs as well as increased sensitivity to oxidative stress. From testimonials offered on the BB, we know well how intestinal disturbances cause various conditions leading to afib and the subclinical inflammation factor is well known with vagus nerve irritation as well.(5)

Some reports indicate magnesium citrate is highly bioavailable, but it’s also known this form does not stay in tissues for long. It’s used in the citric acid cycle or Kreb’s cycle and is typically shunted out of the body quickly. It also has the laxation effect.

When compared to magnesium citrate, magnesium bisglycinate is half as reactive (hypoacidity) when taken on an empty stomach (600 mg Mg/day) and more bioavailable based on classic symptoms of hypomagnesmia.

According to the National Institutes of Health, the form of magnesium is just as important as how much magnesium you're getting. Cheaper forms, such as Oxide and Chloride, are poorly absorbed and quickly excreted from your body.

Source: [www.afibbers.org]

Jackie

Hi Jackie, that's my bedtime reading sorted for later then (-; (hope you are well xx)