Flecainide and calcium carbonate interaction

Hi Everyone:

New to the forum. I have had LAF for about 18 years. I have about three or four episodes a year with Flecainide 25mg bid. I have been taking this drug almost since I was diagnosed, although I was on Amiodarone for a while.

I have been having quite a bit of dizziness and now have PVCs, possibly caused by Flecainide. My cardiologist, who does applied kinesiology, muscle-checked me and told me that my body doesn't like Flecainide but it needs it.

I would like to come off it, but when I reduced the dosage myself, I had an episode that lasted 22 hours before it converted back.with an increase in Flecainide dosage for the day. So it kind of looks like I do need it. They say on Medscape that you need to be hospitalized to be taken of Flecainide. Is that true?

I also read on Medscape that there is a potentially serious interaction between Flecainide and calcium carbonate and also bicarbonate of soda. They increase the QTc interval, apparently. These are of course in antacids. And I always have acid indigestion when I get afib and also often when in sinus rhythm too, so I have been taking Tums and Alka Seltzer a lot. Nobody has ever mentioned this interaction to me and I am wondering if this might be why I am getting dizzy so much. Does anyone know anything about this?

Thanks

Hello Carole and welcome....

Referring back the basics of the minerals or electrolytes required for stable electrical conduction, it's important to be sure that your intracellular stores or levels of magnesium in heart cells is optimal. This applies as well to potassium once magnesium is optimized as they both work together. Running interference is calcium (on magnesium) and sodium (on potassium)... so it's logical when calcium-containing products such as Tums or similar are used to any significant degree, then the competition factor takes over. Calcium is excitatory; whereas magnesium is calming. Same for sodium being excitatory and potassium calming. It's more complex than that, but the idea is that you need to be sure your mineral base inside heart cells is optimal in both magnesium and potassium by diet and supplementing if need be.

You can help manage your gastric issues by taking digestive enzymes with meals and snacks... typically, acid indigestion is really a matter of not having enough naturally-produced stomach acid to break down the food you take in. When that happens, it ferments and causes gas, bloating, reflux, pain and so on. And paying overall attention to your tissue pH.

If you do a past post forum search on acid reflux and GERD and also go to this previous post Alkalinity, Healing, pH and Voltage -- the Inside Story that information may be useful to you since it has a section on Stomach Acid. [www.afibbers.org]

If you also do a search on the word, Flecainide, you’ll see a large number of discussions about people’s reactions and experiences to using flecainide. Additionally, there is also a past post on the chemical composition of flecainide that should be noted as well, titled Flecainide Alert …you can find with a search …it’s in two parts… One about the toxicity of flecainide because it is a fluorinated compound and Part 2 about the Brain Toxicity that can result as well. Helps explain why some people don't feel well when using flecainide. I was one, but unfortunately, it was also the one that worked best.



Flecainide Alert
I. Introduction - The Science
II. Detrimental Effects of Fluoride on the Body
III. Sources of Fluoride - some hidden; some, not.
IV. Remedy Considerations
V. Research & Reference URLs

Summary
The Class Ic Antiarrhythmic, Flecainide Acetate, is a fluorinated drug compound that partially metabolizes or breaks down to fluoride measureable in serum samples. Fluoride is a known poison that has cumulative, toxic effects in the body. Damage to the body from fluoride toxicity is documented in large numbers of studies and includes myocardial dysplasia, interference with critical ion pumps and enzymes, breakdown of collagen, dysfunction of thyroid gland and other tissues by iodide displacement along with other damaging interferences including osteoporosis, cancer, injury to the central nervous system by an excitotoxic mechanism and a profound, prolonged effect on the brain promoting violent behavior, uncontrollable aggression, hostility and more. Afibbers need to be aware of the cumulative effects of fluoride exposure from all sources both hidden and overt. This report is intended to inform and educate about the detrimental effects of intentionally adding to one’s fluoride toxic bioburden.

Jackie

OK so now we are all afraid of Flecainide!!

These drugs are dangerous. I have recently (1 yr post ablation) reduced my Flec to once a day. I cant believe the difference so far in my body. I pretty much have to have it also in some dose to dilute my pac's I get that drive me crazy (and that kick start some afib). Anyway all of that breathlessness and fatigue I thought was caused by my heart going bad was Flec. All of those other creepy rythms (Junctional, LBB were caused by Flec. At least it affected or magnified these problems. I know this now.
It is a good drug for us but it is dangerous.

Travis - I think we have to be aware of the potential for fluorinated compounds to cause problems in some individuals... depending on the amount and duration of the exposure...especially in light of the fact that many are also exposed to fluoride accumulations from municipal water and food products made with municipal water. Long term, that can add up to many other consequences. The alert is important because doctors don't seem to be aware and most patients aren't either so toxicity symptoms may go unrecognized and cause long-term complications that might have otherwise been avoided.

As I commented previously, unfortunately, flecainide was the only antiarrhythmic that worked for me and since I have a sensitivity to most drugs, I am always very aware of immediate symptoms when chemicals enter my body which actually is a good, protective mechanism. Many people don't have that 'canary' so the risk of accumulation and damage can go on far longer and be more far reaching.

PACs are signals or indicators of imbalances in the core intracellular electrolyte optimization. It takes diligence and daily attention to insure the proper ratios and intake.

Jackie

Thank you Jackie. I will do the searches you mentioned. I need to be better educated about this condition. I'll come back with questions that come up. So glad to have found you all.

By the way, I was sure my afib was vagal because it had always begun at night and seemed to be triggered by GERD and my stomach pushing up through my hiatal hernia. but not I am not so sure. My last two episodes occurred during the day, and were related to extreme anxiety. The first time I was trying out a zipline in a children's park and had a sudden fear I was going to hit the pole at the end of the zipline and my afib kicked in. So I guess I must be mixed and not one or the other.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2015 11:08AM by CaroleF.

Carole - There is a definite connection to hiatal hernia and diaphragm displacement conditions in that most always, the vagus nerve (Tenth Cranial Nerve) can become pinched or impinged which is excitatory. Since the vagus also enervates the heart, it's a logical association.

Here's the link to a post from 11 years ago on the topic of Acid Reflux, GERD, Hiatal Hernia and Vagus Nerve Imbalance... which includes notes on a classic report by Steve Rochlitz, PhD. and should be of interest to you.
[www.afibbers.org]

In fact, while you are in the Third Forum Room location, take time to do a search there by typing in "hiatal" in the search box. We did a large amount of exploring this topic back then and there is a lot of great info there. Also there is a reference to Conference Room Session 28...which you may also find informative [www.afibbers.org] Conference Room 63 titled No More Heartburn may also be of interest [www.afibbers.org]

As you say, quite possibly, your zipline experience may have contributed to the mix as well. Sounds like an adventure.... wish they had been popular when I was much younger and would have enjoyed the experience!!

If you anticipate you'll be in a tense situation or intense anxiety, consider using ahead of time the amino acid, L-theanine. It's completely safe and doesn't cause you to feel sleepy or impaired, and has been a reliable, natural aid that can help prevent the onset of AFib or even shorten an event. Even taken right on demand, helps in about 20 minutes or less.

Here's a 2006 report on L-theanine by Naturopathic Physician, Michael T. Murray.... it used to be on his website, but I didn't see it in this exact form, so am duplicating here for your convenience... It's easy to find and inexpensive. I typically use Jarrow (brand) 100 mg. 7. Theanine - monograph. Altern Med Rev 2005;10(2):136-138.7. Theanine - monograph. Altern Med Rev 2005;10(2):136-138

L-Theanine: the Next Supplement Superstar

Introduction
Everyday stress is a normal part of modern living. Job pressures; family responsibilities; financial pressures; traffic, and time management are just a few of the constant stressors most of us are faced with on a daily basis. Sometimes the stress of modern life can be overwhelming as a result as a result nearly 20% of adults in the U.S. use a drug like Xanax, Valium, Restoril, Lunesta, or Ambien to help them calm down or get to sleep. The problem is that all of these drugs are associated with significant risks including the fact that they are highly addictive and are very poor candidates for long-term use. Common side effects include dizziness, drowsiness, and impaired coordination, it is important not to drive or engage in any potentially dangerous activities while on these drugs. Alcohol should never be consumed with these drugs as it could be fatal. Prescriptions for these sorts of drugs are at an all time high and actually increased by 35% last year.

L-theanine: A gentle, natural alternative

L-theanine, a unique amino acid found almost exclusively in tea plants (Camellia sinensis), is emerging as the premier natural product to relieve stress and anxiety. Although L-theanine is the primary amino acid component of green tea comprising between 1 to 2% of the dry weight of tea leaves, it has been available in the U.S. in a purified form for several years now. This purified form is known as Suntheanine.

The effects of L-theanine are truly amazing. Clinical studies have demonstrated that L-theanine reduces stress, improves the quality of sleep, diminishes the symptoms of the premenstrual syndrome, heightens mental acuity and reduces negative side effects of caffeine. These clinical effects are directly related to L-theanine’s ability to stimulate the production of alpha brain waves (a state often achieved by meditation and characterized by being relaxed with greater mental focus and mental alertness) as well as reduce beta-waves (associated with nervousness, scattered thoughts, and hyperactivity).

L-theanine has been approved for use in Japan as an aid to conquer stress and promote relaxation. It is a very is a popular ingredient in function foods and beverages as well as dietary supplements designed to produce mental and physical relaxation, without inducing drowsiness. L-theanine is fast-acting. Generally, the effects are felt within the first 30 minutes, and have been shown to last up to 8 to 12 hours. For the best results, I recommend taking L-theanine in a chewable tablet (e.g., Crave Relax from Natural Factors) as it seems to produce quicker results via nearly immediate transport to the brain.

Based on the results of clinical studies, it has been established that L-theanine is effective in the range of 50 - 200 mg. If a person has higher levels of stress it is often recommended that they take at least 100 to 200 mg one to three times daily. Although L-theanine is completely safe and without any known adverse drug interaction, as a general guideline it is recommended to take no more than 600 mg within a 6 hour period and no more than 1,200 mg within a 24 hour period.

At typical dosages, e.g., 100-200 mg L-theanine does not act as a sedative, but it does significantly improve sleep quality. It is also an excellent synergist to melatonin and 5-HTP (5-hydroxytryptophan) in promoting sleep. On its own, L-theanine at a dosage of 200 mg was shown in a double-blind trial to produce statistically significant improvements in sleep efficiency, an index of actual sleep time enjoyed between the time of falling asleep and nighttime awakenings.

Why L-theanine poised to be the next supplement superstar
There are several reasons why L-theanine is going to emerge as a major natural product. The first is that it definitely fills a need as a safe alternative to prescription drugs that are highly addictive and have a long list of side effects. The scientific merit of the product has been sufficiently established in helping to relieve mild anxiety and improve sleep quality. Next, it is a product that is truly experiential. In other words, it is a product that you can feel. Interestingly, however, is that in the studies looking at L-theanine’s ability to produce an increase in alpha-waves, the relaxing effect was really only noticeable in people who were experiencing a bit of nervousness. People who were already feeling relaxed and alert did not experience any change when they took L-theanine. So, the people who are really go to feel the full effects of L-theanine are those that truly need it.

Another reason why I am predicting here that L-theanine is going to be a major natural product in the marketplace is that I am anticipating the results from clinical studies in progress are going to produce extremely positive results. For example, Michael Lyon, M.D., Director of the Canadian Center for Functional Medicine, in conjunction with the University of British Columbia is conducting a double-blind, placebo controlled study in boys diagnosed with attention deficit disorder with hyperactivity. If the results of Dr. Lyon’s study are as impressive as case histories and preliminary studies, L-theanine should emerge as a safe, natural alternative to the drug Ritalin. If that happens, I think it is very safe to say that sales of L-theanine will sky rocket.

Key references:
1. Eschenauer G, Sweet BV. Pharmacology and therapeutic uses of theanine. Am J Health Syst Pharm. 2006;63(1):26, 28-30
2. Juneja LR, Chu D-C, Okubo T, et al. L-Theanine -- a unique amino acid of green tea and its relaxation effect in humans. Trends Food Sci Tech. 1999; 10:199-204.
3. Kaduka T, Nozawa A, Unno T, et al. Inhibiting effects of theanine on caffeine stimulation evaluated by EEG in the rat. Biosci Biotechnol Biochem. 2000; 64:287-293.
4. Kimura K, Ozeki M, Juneja LR, Ohira H. L-Theanine reduces psychological and physiological stress responses. Biol Psychol. 2006;Aug 21;online ahead of press [article in press]
5. Kobayashi K, Nagato Y, Aoi N, et al. Effects of l-theanine on the release of a-brain waves in human volunteers.Nippon Nogeikagaku Kaishi 1998;72:153–157.
6. Lu K, Gray MA, Oliver C, et al. The acute effects of L-theanine in comparison with alprazolam on anticipatory anxiety in humans. Hum Psychopharmacol. 2004;19(7):457-65.
7. Theanine monograph... Alt Med Review 2005

Thank You, Jackie.

I am 66 and the zipline was about 30 feet long and about ten feet off the ground – so not exactly what you probaby envisaged in my story . To get on to it, I had to crouch down to get under a metal bar, and I think the position may have pinched the vagus nerve.

I will definitely try this amino acid. I have insomnia, so it sounds like a good supplement for me to try.

Okay Carole... thanks for the clarification of the ZIP line. ....

On the insomnia issue, you may want to consider having your cortisol production checked with an Adrenal Stress Profile. Often if you are producing too much continually, the result is insomnia. Another cause can be not enough protein at your last meal or too much sugar/starchy carb at the last meal so that you have a sort of "rebound" effect which takes you into a hypoglycemic state and that results in producing more adrenaline (stimulating) when you should be sleeping.

I can detail that more for you if you like... just send me a PM.

Jackie