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PVC,s

Posted by smackman 
PVC,s
February 09, 2015 02:27PM
I have been having "runs" of PVC,s for approx. 2 months. I went 9 months after my ablation with "very few". I called Austin and they said it is NOTHING to worry about and quite common for individuals who have had Cather Ablation which I did Feb 27, 2014 by Dr. Natale. They say I have very few that show up using my linq monitoring device and she said they get numerous calls from patients who have PVC,s after Afib Ablation. SHE SAID IT WILL NOT CAUSE YOU TO GO INTO AFIB SO QUIT WORRYING....

It seems Anxiety ramps up the PVC,s. I do have Anxiety and it does get worse during the winter months.

Can anyone comment on this and give me a "peace of mind"? I am learning to control my Anxiety with a Counselor using
Cognitive Therapy and Relaxation techniques. I also use a Benzo but I refuse to go up in dose because it is so addicting.

If you have PVC,s , How do you deal with them?

Thanks in advance.
Anonymous User
Re: PVC,s
February 10, 2015 07:15AM
Smackman, you might try using Hans' recipe for the PAC-tamer. Any ectopics should and probly will go back where they came from if you do that, whichever region of hell it is that these things come from. At the least try drinking an extra glass of either low sodium V8 or of K glycinate dissolved in a real big glass of water. Be sure you are taking as much magnesium glycinate as your bowel tolerance will allow, testing by adding one more tablet to your regular dose each day, whatever that dose may be. If adding one more Mg pill does not produce diarrhea that day, ramp up further by adding one additional tablet each day until you find a dosage level that gives you diarrhea. Then fine-tune the dosage by decreasing your dose by one pill a day until you find a dose that produces 2 or 3 soft bowel movements in a day, but no diarrhea.The reason i think this may help is because your tolerance can have been changed by the ablation. Certainly there could be many things changed by the ablation, un-intended things as well as the intended ones. If this is an effect of the ablation, it probably will go away over the next few months or hopefully weeks, as your body heals up from having the inside of your heart burnt by the good doctor.

One thing i know is not helpful to an anxious person is being told not to be anxious about whatever it is that they are anxious about. If we could shut anxiety off like it was coming from a faucet, we would have done that already. Taking some kind of action, on the other hand, helps some with the anxiety at least, even if it turns out not to help with the anxiety-causing problem. Strength and courage to you, dear man, it is very likely this will all go away by the end of the blanking period. Weird "heart events" that happen during the first 2-3 months after the ablation are usually temporary and will quit happening as the body adjusts to the new normal.

PeggyM
Anonymous User
Re: PVC,s
February 10, 2015 08:16AM
Smackman, i re-read your original message and your ablation was in February and the "blanking period" has long passed. My profound apology for not picking that up the first time through. I still think the PAC-tamer would help you, or at least that electrolite supplementation would help. Electrolytes are the name for the minerals that afibbers have found to help do away with afib episodes. Magnesium and potassium are the ones we have found helpful, in the forms magnesium glycinate and potassium gluconate powder. The letter K is the abbreviation for potassium. I do not remember whether you were using them before your ablation or not. If not then right now is a good time to start. Your local health food store may or may not carry the ones we use most, but iHerb does and their delivery time is quicker than others i have used. All the best to you and i hope some of this is helpful to you.

PeggyM
Re: PVC,s
February 10, 2015 09:40AM
Load up on the taurine. 3000 -4000 mg per day. I think you can go as high as 6000 mg. Taurine us also relaxing.
Anonymous User
Re: PVC,s
February 10, 2015 09:52AM
Taurine works for afibbers as a helpful adjunct to electrolyte intake but is not any use for that unless you are already supplementing with the above-mentioned electrolyte minerals.

PeggyM
Re: PVC,s
February 10, 2015 12:10PM
My Pvc,s per my Nurse educator are not that bad. I am in NSR and have been since my Ablation by Dr. Natale feb.27, 2014 almost a year ago. I just hate them when I can feel them. When I feel them, my Anxiety gets worse.

I am already at bowel tolerance with the Magnesium at approx. 1100 mg a day which is 300 chelated magnesium and 800 Magnesium Citrate. I bought some powdered potassium BUT I am scared to take it after reading it can stop your heart with to much where magnsium you only spend time on the "throne". LOL
I need some advice in this area.

My Anxiety "ramped up" as the winter months came. I have no answer to why but I feel this is my major issue.

I am currently going to therapy for my Anxiety. I am learning relaxation techniques, etc.

I was reassured that PVC,s WILL not cause me to go back into AFIB per Dr. Natale's nurse educator. She said a individual would have to have a minimum of 20,000 PVC,s a day before they would ever consider Ablation for it AND this is after medication such as a beta blocker and Magnesium has been used.

I am scared to start taking potassium because I have no way of knowing how much to take. I eat Raisins, bananas and Avacados when I can find them.
Re: PVC,s
February 10, 2015 07:03PM
Hi Smackman,

I've been afib free since my ablation 6 months ago, but also have had varying levels of PVCs, ranging from one per hour to one every 5 seconds. They are stressful, which is bad , because stress definitely increases them, causing a bad feedback loop. Food also increases them. What I eat, not as important as how much I eat. Not that I don't try to eat well, but they increase significantly right after eating anything more than a snack.
I have been able to keep them under control mostly with potassium. I try to get about 500 mg of potassium gluconate in the AM on an empty stomach. I seems to absorb better . Then , I keep 500 mg in my waller water which I sip on during the day. I usually end the day with another 500 mg in a cup of hot water. If I need more during the day, I drink some low sodium v8, or some coconut water. I've always tried to eat potassium rich foods, but that never really stopped them. I think I remember reading you would need way over 10,000 mg to be dangerous, it may even be more.
Avoiding Gluten , high salt meals, msg, too much food at one sitting, sugar, alcohol, processed food, all help.

Your quote from Dr. Natale made me feel better too, because it still scares me when I get a small run of 2 or 3 together. Hopefully, that will be all that comes of it.

Good luck and keep trying things. Post if you find what works well for you!

John
Re: PVC,s
February 11, 2015 09:09AM
Smackman,

I had my ablation with Dr Natale July 3rd 2013 and have not had afib since that time but I have had some ectopics in the past few months that last about a minute or two. My first thought was "oh crap" I hope this doesn't lead into something. I think we all have had so many runs of ectopics and afib in our past I think it is normal to get a little anxious about it. The good news is they stop and your nicely ablated heart keeps on ticking the way it was designed to. I think they are something that we should expect here and there and be happy that they go away. I heard a motivational speaker once say "if you wake up and there isn't a white chalk outline around your body it's a great day", so try not to let the ectopics bother you and have a great day.

Keep the faith.

KenH
Re: PVC,s
February 11, 2015 06:51PM
After my ablation last August, the heart monitor indicated I had "some" PVCs but fortunately, I didn't feel them. Apparently this continued for a couple months as indicated by the weekly recordings I would transmit to the monitoring center...but then the reports indicated that all was calm. Period.

I attribute that to the magnesium, potassium, taurine supplements (The Essential Trio) that I resumed taking just as I did after the first ablation in 2003. Although I try to eat plenty of potassium-containing foods, my appetite and intake is small so I don't easily come close to 4700 mg a day as a bare minimum requirement. So, I just add 1500 - 2000 mg daily of the potassium gluconate powder. Magnesium intake is around 800 mg daily of the chelated version... plus magnesium malate - depends on bowel tolerance and my stress level. Taurine is 3 grams a day (3000 mg).

I learned those three supplements helped stabilize my first ablation for many years and am pleased to report it's still a successful combination. I do watch sodium intake carefully and typically don't eat any packaged or processed foods but I do use some salt for seasoning certain foods.

Jackie
Re: PVC,s
February 12, 2015 08:53AM
I do think a lot of symptomatic Ectopy is electrolyte related, including skewing of sodium, potassium, magnesium balance by poor dietary choices .

That being said EVERYONE on the planet has some degree of on going ectopy... Most 'normal' hearts average around 500 at least per month, but most normal none Afibbers only very rarely notice them as a once in a blue moon 'kaThump' skipped beat.

As afibber's, especially after an ablation, we are hard wired to be highly alert and overly reactive to every little squiggle. It's like a subliminal part of ourcbrains and sensory network have been stationed in red alert for any wayward heartbeats. Alas, it's all too easy then, all the more so when we are more or less nervous nelly types to begin with, to let those periods of ectopy run away with our peace of mind ... If we let them.

By all means, make a concerted effort to learn about and utilize all the wealth of info in our archives on this site that discuss how to quell PACs and even PVC s to a decent degree. There are times and situations when more aggressive forms of Ectopy such as longer runs of PVC need EP help and a specific PVC ablation can very much do the trick in such cases, but those cases are rather rare.

Also, while the ectopy in and of itself is almost always benign, there can at times as well that significant increasing runs indicate a precursor to arrhythmia down the road... Hence redoubling the efforts at electrolyte repletion if you are not already.

Smackman, you will never the ectopy quieted down if that is being triggered from electrolyte imbalance if you avoid improving your potassium intake. Get a serum potassium reading to see where you are, you might even be low. Drink low sodium V8, extra virgin coconut water, eat a whole avocado or take powdered Potassium Gluconate starting with one teaspoon in water and slowly build up to no more than three teaspoons in divided doses over a full day.

Make sure you are getting good magnesium on board too, of course as you are and just keep your serum potassium equivalent under the low 5 range and you will be fine, optimally from 4.3 to 4.9.

But you will never in a million years get rid of annoying symptomatic ectopy only via magnesium alone if you also have depleted potassium swings intraday.

Invest in a Cardymeter to set your mind at ease and then you can measure your own intraday potassium
Levels and before long you will instinctively know when you're low and need a good shot of K.

In the first 3 months to two years post ablation is a time when some increase in ectopy is more common, but in most cases you can greatly reduce that frequency with good electrolyte repletion.

After my LAA isolation I was quiet as a mouse until week 6 when I had about a two week period of mostly periodic PAC runs mixed with a few PVCs and I just jumped on the potassium again as I already was doing hard core magnesium repletion and it's been back to the 'normal non-Afibber human range of a skipped beat or two once in a very blue moon the last three years.

Make sure you get an EXAtest done .. If you can't find a doc who is Exatest aware in your area then call them for a referral from someone you can contact over the phone of Skype that will prescribe the ttest. Do this at least once to confirm just who good your magnesium protocol is at raising IC magnesium.. The stool test is far from infallible and plenty of times loose stool can go hand in hand with low levels of IC mag as well. A good number of afibbers need more than oral mag to get over the hump and restore truly depleted IC mag.

Shannon



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2015 09:02AM by Shannon.
Re: PVC,s
February 12, 2015 05:58PM
I cannot drink V8 because of the Acidity of it. I do eat Raisins, Almonds,Avocados etc. Good Avocados are hard to find. I also eat 1 banana a day.
The EXAtest is not "well known" in my part of the country and honestly I do not have a open wallet of money" to pay for all these test and test equipment. I am just being honest.

Reading about Potassium Toxicity scares the Hell out of me. I have Powdered magnesium I bought maybe a month ago and I am scared to use it literally.

Magnesium is not a issue but I admit it would be nice to know my "Actual levels" of Magnesium and Potassium .
Currently, I am taking approx. 1000 mg of Magnesium a day or to bowel Tolerance; This cannot be done with Potassium if I understand what I am reading on the Internet AND on this forum.

I would love to have the Holistic treatment myself but it is not available around Mid North Louisiana. I have numerous times ask for someone to go to even as far as Dallas, Texas preferably Plano or Frisco suburb but no results.
My zip code is 71260.

I am doing much better. Stress/Anxiety caused me many issues with PVC's. I have Anxiety issues and they get worse in the Winter months. Its called Seasonal Anxiety disorder.(SAS). I have been practicing Cognitive behavioral therapy and seeing a Counselor. I also take 2 mg of Klonopin a day to help with the Anxiety.

Having a Chronic illness with the Urinary side of the body is stressful especially when you feel there is no hope because it remains after 2 years, 4 months. It is better but not healed and I have flare ups for no particular reason.

I follow the Interstitial Cystitis diet. It is strict but it works for IC and CPPS. One day I pray this goes into remission. I think I have Chronic non bacterial Prostatitis or CPPS........

5 mg Valium a day as needed.
20 mg Prozac daily
15 mg Prevacid a day
60 cc shot of Testosterone Cypionate every 10 days. Testosterone is low due to schedule two narcotics.
.5 mg Arimidex 2x a week to keep Estrogen levels in check. T shots can cause rise in Estrogen.

100 mg Metoprolol ER 1x a day
25 mg HydroDiuril fluid pill 1x a day every 2 days.
Neurontin 900mg a day (for Neuropathic pain IC/CPPS)
800 mg of Magnesium daily . Different types
81 mg aspirin 1X a day. Heart Doctor order due to stent installed in Jan. 2012.
2.5 mg Eliquis 2X a day

Miralax 1x a day for constipation issues. I have tried so many different methods for Constipation since 2008. Fiber is in my diet but to much Fiber really Constipates me.




25 mg/hcr Fentanyl.patch changed every 2 days

1st ablation done Feb. 27, 2014 for Long term persistent AFIB Dr. Natale
2nd Ablation done June 16,2016 Dr. Natale LAA isolated



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2015 06:57PM by smackman.
Re: PVC,s
February 14, 2015 09:12AM
Smackman,

Go get a simple potassium blood test and do it in the morning before eating any potassium rich foods or drinks that morning but just eat normally in the days leading up to the test. You just want to get a look at your baseline serum Potassiumits it's under 4.4 and especially under 4.2 you can definitely use that potassium Gluconate powder.

Your heart is NOT going to stop unless you get a huge huge overdose of K and you will not following the strategy protocol. Either do a repeat test once a month for several I the while taking potassium Gluconate at from one teaspoon to a max of three teaspoons in divided doses over the course of a day ( build up to this rose gradually but you may well need it for more intracable ectopy and when eating salty foods.

Better yet, save up for a Cardymeter and you can ten test to your hearts content and learn how to find tune your potassium levels such that you will know right away when you are low and new a boost.

This is a very easy way to at least make headway on reducing the skipped beats.

Don't read those scare stories, it's imporatant not to let your K go much above 5.2 but you have to really bang it hard to get into dangerous areas and if you don't alresfy have pretty high normal range serum K levels you will typiy really have to try to overdose to get it up there to as actually dangerous levels.

Be well and have a good weekend!
Shannon
Re: PVC,s
February 14, 2015 07:37PM
Shannon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Smackman,
>
> Go get a simple potassium blood test and do it in
> the morning before eating any potassium rich foods
> or drinks that morning but just eat normally in
> the days leading up to the test. You just want to
> get a look at your baseline serum Potassiumits
> it's under 4.4 and especially under 4.2 you can
> definitely use that potassium Gluconate powder.
>
> Your heart is NOT going to stop unless you get a
> huge huge overdose of K and you will not following
> the strategy protocol. Either do a repeat test
> once a month for several I the while taking
> potassium Gluconate at from one teaspoon to a max
> of three teaspoons in divided doses over the
> course of a day ( build up to this rose gradually
> but you may well need it for more intracable
> ectopy and when eating salty foods.
>
> Better yet, save up for a Cardymeter and you can
> ten test to your hearts content and learn how to
> find tune your potassium levels such that you will
> know right away when you are low and new a boost.
>
> This is a very easy way to at least make headway
> on reducing the skipped beats.
>
> Don't read those scare stories, it's imporatant
> not to let your K go much above 5.2 but you have
> to really bang it hard to get into dangerous areas
> and if you don't alresfy have pretty high normal
> range serum K levels you will typiy really have to
> try to overdose to get it up there to as actually
> dangerous levels.
>
> Be well and have a good weekend!
> Shannon

Thanks for the info Shannon. I started drinking coconut water which is "rich" in potassium. I will look into Cardymeter. I believe my PVC's are a result of Anxiety but I would love to optimize my levels for a Healthier Life.
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