What good supplements not to take with AFIB ?

Jackie George Shannon et cetera,

There are lots of discussions of what good supplements to take but I can't recall any discussions on good supplements not to take with Afib.

For example Doctor Sahelian says not to take tyrosine,SAM-e,ginseng amongst others.

Are there any more comprehensive suggestions?

Thanks

Alex

Alex,

I don't have any competence in this.

I have recently dabbled in genome testing and things like SAMe and tyrosine may work for some and not for others.

George

Alex... Quite often more than supplements to be avoided are comments about avoiding certain foods that tend to have chemicals, preservatives, free glutamates or various elements that are more likely to cause systemic reactions that help trigger a neurological or chemical sensitivity response that triggers AFib.

Herbals are often culprits. Kelp comes to mind as while it is a good source of iodine, it also contains free glutamate which can be a trigger. In the archives back when Fran Ross was posting, she was totally sensitive to compounded supplements so looked to everything natural in food sources. She found she was reactive to commercial kelp but could pick up fresh kelp at the sea shore and nibble on that for a source of iodine.

I had a reaction to Hawthorne which I initially tried because my first venture into research on arrhythmia suggested Hawthorne was good. Not for me as it caused AFib.

I also learned that taking supplemental calcium as is typically advised for women to maintain healthy bones caused me to have Afib and I proved that to myself several times before I made the connection. Confirmed by the fact that my magnesium levels were low and it was then a 'no brainer' to figure out that high Ca + low Mg = Afib.

We recommend supplementing with magnesium and potassium provided the afibber has healthy kidney function.

Others have posted what they found to be on their personal verboten list but unfortunately, I don't recall that we ever formalized a collective list similar to what Peggy M did with The List of successes for people who eliminated their Afib by natural means rather than ablations.

So.... perhaps with this thread...we can all delve back in the archives and see what we can uncover to make a list starting with this thread.

I'll try to remember some of the others.

Jackie

Jackie:

I think you are grasping at straws that calcium caused your AF, my mother never took any cal. tabs she had AF, I suspect that a lot of men don't take cal. tabs. yet they get AF.

Liz

Hi, Liz. Just had to jump in after reading the above entry.

Wanted to share that, after following this board for many years and reviewing the multitude of posts from Jackie on a variety of subjects, there's no way I -- and I'm confident a huge number of others here -- could ever agree with the characterization of her in your post.

This forum would not be all that it is -- a wealth of knowledge on Afib and other related health topics -- without Jackie.

I personally thank you, J.

/L

Liz - No, I'm not grasping at straws. I demonstrated that finding again and again. Stopped the calcium and the AF stopped... The problem was that I was low in intracellular magnesium and the extra calcium performed as advertised... excitatory to heart cells when magnesium is low. If there is enough magnesium, then that is less likely to happen but the ratio needs to be at a very minimum of 1:1 or better yet 2:1 Mg to Ca. Better still... don't take supplemental calcium

This finding was in the very early years of my Afib journey when I had it only occasionally ... every 3 - 4 months or so...and then, it began almost every night which is when I would take the calcium. When I stopped that practice, the afib went away for another 6 months or so.

Men can have too much calcium from food sources and drinking water. Erling developed his AF not long after moving to Colorado where the water was rich in calcium and low in magnesium. As you recall from his testimonial, he cured his AF by making sure he optimized his magnesium among other things.

By the way, there is a new book out by Board Certified Cardiologist, Thomas E. Levy, MD, JD Death by Calcium which confirms that excess calcium in the presence of magnesium deficiency causes a lot of health issues. His focus is to alert people not to be taking the high doses of calcium ...as is so typically and frequently frequently recommended as calcium alone does not improve bone health which is mainly the way it's prescribed by physicians who don't understand nutrition.


Here's an online excerpt:

..... "Recent scientific studies now provide overwhelming proof that unequivocally confirms what many non-mainstream healthcare practitioners have long known and asserted: The regular intake of dairy and calcium supplementation promotes all known chronic degenerative diseases, and it significantly shortens life. All physicians and patients alike need to know the truth about calcium. Most people already have too much calcium in their tissues, and the incessant trumpeting of the purported health benefits of calcium supplementation and high-dairy diets must finally be exposed as marketing ploys only. The truth about calcium must finally be known.

The supplement is calcium, in any form, although some forms are more toxic than others. Furthermore, it is now clear that excess dietary calcium, as is realized with the routine ingestion of milk and other calcium-laden dairy foods, is also a toxic and life-shortening practice.

This book highlights and clearly documents the science behind the following assertions:

Women with the highest calcium consumption, regardless of source (diet, supplements), had a death rate two and one-half times higher than the women with lower consumption. This was a prospective study on 61,433 women followed over a 19-year period.

Women with osteoporosis do not have a generalized, body-wide deficiency of calcium. Rather, there is a deficiency of calcium in their bones, but the rest of their bodies have a calcium excess.

While calcium supplementation alone can increase the calcium density in the bones, it does not decrease the chances of an osteoporotic fracture. It is a cosmetic improvement only, and it further fuels the excess of calcium outside of the bones.

Typical American diets supply enough calcium for the needs of the body when blood vitamin D levels are maintained in the proper range.

Because of the emphasis on increased calcium intake, the typical osteoporosis patient faces a much higher chance of death from heart attack and stroke than from the consequences of an osteoporotic fracture.

Osteoporosis is a focal scurvy (severe vitamin C deficiency) of the bones.

All chronic degenerative diseases feature increased levels of calcium inside the cells of the body.

Measures that decrease further uptake of calcium inside the cells of the body substantially decrease the chances of death from all causes (a generalized reduction in mortality).

Increased calcium deposition outside of the cells, as well as increased levels of calcium inside the cells, increase the chances of malignant transformation and the development of cancer.

Many natural agents increase calcium in the bone, decrease calcium excesses throughout the body, and decrease the chances of death from all diseases. These include magnesium, vitamin D, vitamin C, vitamin K, and essential fatty acids (omega-3).

The proper restoration of deficient levels of sex hormones (estrogen, testosterone) and thyroid hormone helps normalize calcium metabolism and also decreases the chances of death from all causes.

To recap, then, medicine has long regarded calcium supplementation as beneficial to health. In fact, although limited amounts of calcium are vital to health, excess levels of it play routine roles in the development of chronic degenerative disease, malignant transformation, and premature cell death. Whenever a cell dies, there is already excess calcium inside it. Like iron and copper, small amounts are essential, especially in helping many enzymes function normally, but larger amounts will always be toxic and increase oxidative stress wherever accumulation occurs.

About the Author

Thomas E. Levy, MD, JD is a board-certified cardiologist and the author of Primal Panacea and Curing the Incurable: Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases, and Toxins; plus three other groundbreaking medical books. He is one of the world's leading vitamin C experts and frequently lectures to medical professionals all over the globe about the proper role of vitamin C and antioxidants in the treatment of a host of medical conditions and diseases.

Source: [www.medfoxpub.com]

Liz,

In my case, I'm very sure I came to have afib because of chronic endurance exercise. I'm also sure that genetics play a role as not everybody who is chronically fit gets afib, though it certainly raises the odds.

Calcium played a role later. After starting my afib career with a 2 1/2 month episode, I had my afib pretty well controlled with my magnesium to bowel tolerance, potassium & taurine supplement program. As I've posted before, my divorce upset that applecart. I went from going years between episodes to, at the worst, episodes at 3 AM, 4 nights in a row. I thought a) that it was time for an ablation and b) it was divorce stress that caused the upset. I also thought that even though I'd settled down emotionally that I'd had enough remodeling that reversing it would not be possible. I did manage, with ginger spice powder and flecainide to reduce my frequency enough (and PIP flec continued to work), that it gave me a little more time to see if I could work out a solution. About 15 months in, I realized I'd changed my diet to the tune of stress eating wheels of cheese, starting with the beginning of the emotional trauma. When I looked at the label I computed that the amount of calcium I was taking in was material. Remembering the potential relationship between calcium and afib from readings early in my career, I stopped all cheese consumption. My control immediately returned.

I certainly don't think it is an issue for everybody, but it was an issue for me.

Gentlepersons,

the discussions are very interesting but my original question has got lost.

I think it is an important question.

The other question I asked in a separate post is about wenxin keli.

It reads well in some sites but what is reality ?

Alex

Jackie:

Dr. Brownstein says we do need adequate calcium from our diet and an adequate supply of calcium is essential to attain maximum bone mass. He says we need to take the correct form and if we don't have optimal amounts of other minerals, calcium will not find its way to the bones and may cause other problems.
.
Dr. Brownstein says Calcium citrate and lactate are the best absorbed forms of calcium. To ensure calcium is absorbed from the GI tract, adequate vitamin D must be present.

So, perhaps when you were taking cal. supplements you did not have adequate Vit. D and the other minerals so that is where you got in trouble. I had quit taking cal. supplements because of a lot of what I have read on this board, I may have been wrong in doing so, I do take Vit. K, and vit. D and do exercises, however a month ago I hurt my rotator cuffs and around the trochanter area, it still hurts a lot.

I have seen many posts about causes of AF, supplements and protocol tried, in the end an ablation was the answer, even you Jackie, so if I am skeptical, I may have reason to be.

Liz

Liz - You are correct about the other nutrients that need to be in place in order for calcium to be assimilated and utilized to make healthy bone cells as intended and Dr. Levy does address that as well... the Vitamin K in the proper form of Menaquinone 7 or MK7 in a high enough dose to be effective and also vitamin D3.

It was much later that I learned I was deficient in vitamin D so that may have added insult to injury. My current bone density levels by DEXA evaluation are good so I'm not at all concerned about not taking supplemental calcium. I do weight bearing exercise and specific Nautilus equipment routines for legs and arms, abs and back so that activity stimulates new bone cells proliferation. You get yours with your gardening. So our bones are in good health.

As a cardiologist, Dr. Levy remains adamant about the damage done in the body by excess calcium and he's been in the trenches long enough to know and see first hand the detrimental effects. The book is worth reading.

Jackie

Aside from Jackie's excellent summary of why Calcium supplements can trigger Afib (Hi Jackie!), there are other supplements and foods that can act as triggers, (including Hawthorne) which can be gleaned from the archives. Alex's topic shouldn't get lost.

I've wondered about L-Carnitine, and although my 10 year old ablation still holds, I worry about my frequent PACs and what may trigger them. (cutting out L-Carnitine has not improved my PACs...)

The latest AFib report discusses NSAIDS and other anti-inflammatories as culprits that can make you more susceptible to AFib! Although not a "supplement", that study alarms me --- is my recent increased use of tumeric (a powerful anti-inflammatory) now suspect? (I hope not, I don't need an increase in PACs)

Anton

Only you can answer that question, and even then it requires rare knowledge.
This because the supplements must answer a deficiency, and this is not well known - for instance I eat only meat from animals that are both grass-fed and grass-finished, so I get the perfect balance of omega 6 to omega 3 EFAs.
I did not know that, and took a supplement of fish oil.
The result was 3 strokes. I still have a disability, luckily minor.

William,

Do you mean that taking fish oil left you with 3 strokes?
How much did you take?

William:

That is terrible, did the doctor say that the fish oil was related to your strokes. There is a lot of good information on this site but that doesn't mean that we have to agree with everything that is posted as gospel, we should all remember that and do our homework, it is said many times we are all different and of course that is true.

Li

Hi Anton,

Would you let me know if taking turmeric (curcumin) is the culprit for your increase in PACs.
I recently increased my intake of curcumin (2gms a day) and have had more frequent afib.
I have been looking for other culprits like dehydration as I never suspected curcumin being the cause, but it may be.

Colin

Hi Anton! The only way to know for sure about compatibility with a nutrient and your biochemistry is to stop taking it for a couple weeks and observe. As I commented, Hawthorne always did it for me along with calcium. Curcumin was never an issue for me and I've used that for many years as a natural anti-inflammatory... but I only use 400 mg twice a day. Perhaps consider cutting back some if and when you re-introduce it. Let us know the results of your experiment.

Keep in mind, the first suspect for PAC or PVC activity is typically low magnesium, low potassium, high sodium. Those electrolytes are right there on the front lines for regulating electrical conduction activity. If we are marginal in intake which equates to intracellular quantities, then all those things we know that easily deplete those minerals are suspect... stress being the most influential and stress can be physical, mental, emotional.

Obviously as discussed in the Sodium thread, dehydration also has a big impact on heart activity and AF. A culprit for dehydration is alcohol intake which also depletes electrolytes quickly and easily...so that's double trouble.

Jackie

William - so sorry to read about your strokes and glad you are mostly okay.

How is it that you determined it was the fish oil... as that is a good blood thinner and helps prevent platelets from clumping?


Barry Sears, PhD... has always indicated that Omega 6's in beef create Arachidonic Acid which is inflammatory... and of course that can lead to blocked arteries.


OMEGA 3 BENEFITS
Understanding (AA) Arachidonic Acid - (Omega 6 – Pro Inflammatory Fat)
Dr. Barry Sears


......" There are two types of fats that fall into the category of "good" fats. These are the monounsaturated fats and the long chain omega 3 fats. You get monounsaturated fats from olive oil, selected nuts and avocados. Long chain omega 3 fats come from fish and fish oils. These are exceptionally powerful allies in your quest for a longer and healthier life.

However, there are some fats you want to restrict in your diet. These are saturated fats, trans fats and (AA) arachidonic acid. I consider these to be really "bad" fats. Arachidonic acids are found primarily in fatty red meats, egg yolks and organ meats. This particular polyunsaturaed fat may be the most dangerous fat know when consumed in excess and is known as an Omega 6 fat. In fact, you can inject virtually every type of fat (even saturated fat and cholesterol) into rabbits and nothing happens. However, if you inject (AA) arachidonic acid into the same rabbits they are dead within three minutes. The human body needs "some" arachidonic acid, but too much can be toxic.

Ironically, the higher your insulin levels, the more your body is stimulated to make increased levels of arachidonic acid. (AA) is a long-chain omega-6 fatty acid. Enchaned production of good eicosanoids requires the presence of EPA and DHA long chain "omega 3" fats, found in Ultra Refined fish oil.

Remember, long chain omega-6 fatty acids (found in high concentrations in vegetable oils) are the building blocks used to manufacture "bad" eicosanoids. The balance of good and bad eicosanoids will be the primary factor determining your physical and mental health.

As you may have already guessed, fish oils are rich in long chain omega 3 fats. Central to my wellness plan are the long chain omega 3 fats called EPA and DHA. DHA is the needed fat for the brain, whereas EPA is the key fat for your heart and overall health. Utlra Refined omega 3 is rich in both....."


Dr. Barry Sears is a leader in the field of dietary control of hormonal response. A former research scientist at the Boston University School of Medicine and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Dr. Sears has dedicated his efforts over the past 25 years to the study of lipids and their inflammatory role in the development of chronic disease. He holds 13 U.S. Patents in the areas of intravenous drug delivery systems and hormonal regulation for the treatment of cardiovascular disease.



Continue:[www.cbn.com]

See also this post from several years ago......

New Predictor of Sudden Cardiac Death

New Predictor for Risk of Sudden Cardiac Death: EPA/Arachidonic Acid Index
Reference: “A new predictor of risk for sudden cardiac death,” Jabbar R, Saldeen T, Ups J Med Sci, 2006; 111(2): 169-77. (Address: Department of Surgical Sciences, University of Uppsala, Sweden).

Testing for the ratio between Arachidonic Acid (AA) and Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA) or AA:EPA is what Dr. Barry Sears has been recommending for years now.

Results of previous studies of 14,000 subjects, have shown there is an inverse relationship between blood levels of Omega 3 Fatty acids and risk of sudden cardiac death. The higher the levels, the lower the risk.

Subjects took fish oil daily for six years and control subjects took no fish oil
Six different indices were calculated and the one looking at the ratio between EPA and AA was found to show the largest difference between the groups with ranges from as low as 5 in the non-fish oil group to 118 in the fish oil group with 70% in the fish oil group having an index of 50 or greater.

(Arachidonic Acids come from Omega 6 oils and are involved with prostaglandins and the inflammatory and pain process. )



You need some AA for functioning; the pathology comes into play when there the balance is weighted toward AA and not EPA.

Summary: In a study involving analysis of blood samples from subjects who had been taking fish oil daily for six years and subjects who had not been taking fish oil, researchers conclude that the ratio between EPA and arachidonic acid (AA) may be a new index used to predict the risk of sudden cardiac death. Results of previous studies involving 14,000 subjects have shown an inverse relationship between blood levels of omega-3 fatty acids and risk of sudden cardiac death. In this study, blood samples collected from both groups of subjects were analyzed for levels of various fatty acids. Of the six different indices calculated, the one which looked at the ratio between EPA and AA was found to show the largest difference between the groups, ranging from as low as 5 in the non-fish oil group to 118 in the fish oil group. 70% of subjects in the fish oil group were found to have an index of 50 or greater. The researchers propose that subjects with an EPA/AA index below 50 should increase their intake of omega-3 fatty acids in order to reduce their risk of sudden cardiac death.


Also: The book to read on this topic is “The Anti-Inflammation Zone” by Barry Sears, PhD.

Unfortunately, this is not a common lab test and is expensive. Hopefully, demand will bring down the cost.
Jackie



Another post from long ago on this topic was brought forward again 5 years ago... noting the importance of not making an abundance of Arachidonic Acid... (Sorry about the artifacts that transfer when copied from an old forum)



Re: importance of omega-3 EFA balance with Omega-6 EFA in cancer, cardiology and etc

December 20, 2009 10:31AM
On this topic and for new readers, Hans wrote long ago about the importance of Omega 3’s [www.oilofpisces.com]

Some years ago, Barry Sears, PhD and author of several of the “Zone” series books, authored one about the importance of Omega 3’s versus 6 or even 9. I attended a mini-seminar in which he presented his views from the book "The Anti-Inflammation Zone." The emphasis is on the problem with the common diet high in Omega 6’s and low in the 3’s and the resulting problem with Arachidonic Acid production and “Silent Inflammation.”

All Functional Medicine professionals indicate that increasing Omega 3’s is vitally important to overall health and especially cardiac health which speaks to the ‘silent inflammation factor.’ My own FM MD suggested I take between 4 and 6 grams daily of a pharmaceutical grade, molecularly distilled (pure) product. I’ve done so for almost 10 years. It is one of the core supplements on my list of “must have daily.”

A review of Dr. Sears’ work is here: [www.drsears.com]

For those who weren’t reading back in 2004 – here are my notes from the mini-seminar by Dr. Sears.
Jackie


Part V Silent Inflammation…Barry Sears, Stephen Sinatra.
This is from the A4M convention (2004)…this section was on “Treating the Difficult Patient”

There was one group of presenters talking on Inflammation. I sat in on Barry Sears, PhD (of “The Zone” fame) and the last portion of Stephen Sinatra, MD. Dr. Sinatra gave an abbreviated version the handout I’ve reproduced for you here. It’s like a mini book…loaded with nuggets of importance and was originally presented at another conference. I was elated to find it in my handouts.

Thought you like to print it for reading at quiet times over the holidays. Food for thought, for sure. Motivation for making new resolutions for the coming year. Happy Reading! Jackie

Dr. Sears’ talk was “ Does Silent Inflammation Make Medicine an Art instead of a Science?” Dr. Sinatra covers this in detail below so I’ll only give you some nuggets from Dr. Sears and leave the rest to your reading. Dr. Sears new book“The Anti Inflammatory Zone” is one to consider owning.

He emphasized that testing for the ratio of Arachidonic Acid (AA) and EPA is the most precise marker of Silent Inflammation (SI)…. it is a predictor decades before diseases manifest. Early detection and prevention.
For inflammation… as in the case of NSAIDS… using the correct dosage is critical. He says that as many people die from side effects of NSAIDS as from AIDS.

We must practice “dietary endocrinology” Glucagon is the Mobilizing Hormone; Eicosanoids are master hormones. Anti-inflammatory diets control Eicosanoids.

Everyone should be checked for fasting Insulin. Average is 10 and idea is less than 5. If elevated, people have a 5-fold increase of likelihood of dying from heart disease.

We must lose fat. Fat cells generate inflammation. Obesity has produced an epidemic of inflammation.

Pediatric concerns indicate higher BMI’s and equivalent higher CRP ( inflammation marker)

Elevated insulin increases hunger.

The best diet is a balanced diet (Dr. Sinatra discusses below)… because… too much protein increases ketosis which increases cortisol which increases insulin.

The brain needs adequate blood glucose… and if you don’t put complex carbs in the diet, the body breaks down muscle to get glucose.
He said the Zone Diet to control insulin is easy. Cut back on grains and starches. Look at your plate… the low-fat protein portion should be no bigger than the size of your palm and no thicker. The rest of the plate should be filled with veggies and fruits and a small quantity of monosaturated fat.

Insulin and EPA - EPA is an inhibitor.
We need to avoid making Arachidonic Acid…this is most toxic. Inhibit Cox enzymes with high dose EPA fish oils.
[aside:
1. Omega-3 fatty acids reduce inflammation, omega-6 increase inflammation.
2. Omega-3 fatty acids are antithrombotic, omega-6 increase blood clotting.
3. Omega-3 are non-immunoreactive, omega-6 are immunoreactive.
Flaxseed oil contains alpha-linolenic acid but no EPA and DHA.
Fish oil contains primarily EPA and DHA ]

He says fish oils act the same as statins.

One of the most well known studies, the GISSI-3 {Gruppo Italiano per lo Studio della Sopravvivenza nell'Infarto Miocardio (GISSI)-Prevenzione}, in which 11,324 people were given 1gram of omega-3 fatty acids or control for 24 months. This large study showed that persons given omega-3 fatty acid supplements had a 45% decrease in risk of sudden cardiac death and a 20% reduction in all-cause mortality.

[GISSI-Prevenzione Investigators. Dietary supplementation with n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids and vitamin E after myocardial infarction: results of the GISSI-Prevenzione trial. Lancet 1999;354:447-55. ] [www.ajcn.org]

Fish oil crosses the Blood Brain Barrier.
In Bipolar cases – people given 9 grams fish oil a day showed 500% improvement. This is close to a medical miracle. In the Omega 3’s – the EPA is anti-inflammatory and the DHA – supports the brain.

He says – use fish oil rather than eating fish. All fish are contaminated – they eat from the “sewer of the sea.”

Daily Dosing: Total EPA/DHA Omega 3 Fish oil.
2.5 grams for Wellness – Omega 3 and a TBS of cod liver oil
5 gms daily to improve heart function and if diabetic
7.5 grams – to reduce pain and inflammation
10 – 25 grams for neurological diseases.

Fish oil has no impact on Coumadin. He says studies up to 16 grams a day show anti-clotting action the same as 1 aspirin a day.
We must test for AA/EPA ratio… which should be 1.5 and 3 respectively.
Called Isolated Plasma Phospholipids.

To use fish oils in elevated doses, it is important to do testing. This is not a guessing game. It will take 7 – 14 days to make a biochemical difference and this is a lifetime commitment…the taking of Omega 3 fish oils.

Borage oil is a toxic nutrient as it goes right to AA…the very thing we are trying to avoid.

Lancet – Eskimos haemorrhagic stroke study [journals.cambridge.org]

End of Sears notes… ( I did not include the Sinatra notes. )

Colindo, I've taken tumeric, curcumin for a long time but don't believe it is responsible for increased PACs. But the latest AFib report cautions about using NSAIDS and anti-inflammatories that increase susceptibility to Afib. But anti-inflammatories is a broad category including NSAIDS and this is the first time I've read they might be linked to Afib.

My first assumption about my increased PACs is that they are due to the same triggers as AFib. (?) Perhaps "old age stress" or maybe some stray signals from the LAA area have been triggered (Natale didn't ablate that back then, in 2004) but it still hasn't gone to AFib. I just woulld like to know if any supplements have "lost favor" or have given others on this board trouble. I've had this increase in PACs for well over 2 years now, resting pulse only.

Jackie, I want to assure you I still use Mg, potassium, and taurine as everyday supplements, and that L-carnitine was halted recently just to see if PACs changed-- they didn't. I do admit that after 5 years with no alchohol, the last 5 years I will have an occasional wine when out, but never more than 2 glasses. My other supplements (like curcumin) seem to me unrelated to PACs or Afib. Maybe others will provide new info.

Tony

Tony - How much magnesium are you taking daily?

There is always the potential for a slight magnesium deficiency that allows for the buildup of cardiac fibrosis. This fibrosis is a physical interference of the electrical conduction pathways from cell to cell to cell... and this fibrotic buildup is slowly reversible with optimal intracellular magnesium repletion. So... you have nothing to lose by bumping up your daily Mg intake until you reach bowel tolerance and then backing down just slightly for the 'Goldilocks' dosing effect.

You should also consider using the magnesium bicarbonate water that we make ourselves to add the highly beneficial form of magnesium bicarbonate that is so very important for maintaining tissue alkalinity. It's a win/win because you add some magnesium in the really good form and you also promote tissue alkalinity or pH.

I'll post more tomorrow on the alkalinity topic and give you reference links to past posts that should help to convince you that pH is very important to support overall health.

Out of time for today but I'll post again tomorrow.

Jackie

Jackie, (I've been busy as well, so just getting to it now)

I take 500mg Mg (glycinate) daily-- more than that means bowel intolerance for me. I did make Waller Water in the past but haven't lately. Lazy, perhaps.

I also try to take 4 Pottasium & spread intake over a few meals -- with 1/2 bannana in the am gives me over 400mg but not as regular so probably get 300+ mg/d average. Plus 2-3 drops Iodine (Lugol's which has Potassium Iodide as well), Taurine, and L-carnitine round out my "anti-arrhythmia" supplements.

Anton