Cheese cause Afib episodes?

Hello everyone,

The other day, I walked around Costco and they had a bunch of different kind of cheese samples to enjoy. I had a few bites and not long after, I felt some ectopics and later on turned into a full episode. Is it the sodium, calcium or preservatives or what in the cheese that can trigger the beast?

This is getting absurd. Cheese is one of the fine thing in life to enjoy. Does it mean it's on the list among with many other fine things (coffee, wine, beer, etc) to stay away? I might as well be a monk or just eat grass to live. Sorry, I'm just frustrated.
Thanks for letting me vent.

Duke

(Go USA! Go USA!) (warming up for Tuesday against Belgium) :-)

Hi Duke,

Its mostly the Calcium in cheese, though too much salt can be a culprit too. Search George's posts on his cheese experience and using Ginger as a partial recovery though cutting out the cheese along with the rest of his protocol is what helped him regain a quiet heart again

Shannon

A few bites of cheese is not enough calcium to trigger an episode, IMO (how much calcium can there be?). If you ate a whole wheel of it, well then, that's a fair amount of calcium. I would look to something else, free glutamates in aged cheese, maybe? Maybe some other ingredient or sample of (fill in the blank) that was there? Maybe coincidence?

I know how tempting it is to seize the immediate possible culprit trigger, but it also sometimes keeps us from doing or enjoying something that doesn't really make a difference to our Afib in the attempt to keep ourselves in NSR. For example: A few years ago, everyone was talking about how bad sleeping on our left side was. I grabbed onto that like a life ring and quit sleeping on my left side. The only thing that accomplished was interrupted sleep while "training" myself, and a very sore right shoulder. It made not one whit of difference in my episodes. Does this mean that it wasn't effective for others? NO, it just means it wasn't a trigger for me.

The long and short of it is this: the only way to know if something is a trigger for you is to see if it is repeatable.

lisa
__________________________

So much of medicine is looking solely down the wrong end of the gun barrel, and that is really a pity for all of us---Shannon

Lisa is right about your cheese dose Duke, while George had a well documented trigger effect from certain cheeses that he was eating in rather large quantities and frequently, that is a far cry from a few nibbles from from cheese samples you report. There is not always an immediate stimulus response between trigger and AFIB attack either. Often a trigger manifests from a cumulative build up until AFIB is the end result. Don't drive yourself too crazy trying to label every trigger. As AFIB progresses and more structural remodeling continues the more apt you are to slide in and out of AFIB just based on the increasing substrate that encourages and favors AFIB as the more 'normal' HR than it does NSR until finally you slide into persistent AFIB after which the triggers become very much a more secondary issue.

So while cheese can, by a couple of mechanisms, such as excess calcium , salt or tyramine in some types of cheese , those usually require more exposure than you reported to trigger an episode.

It's often a combination of triggers that push the heart out of its already tentative balance for an active afibber so you can really go bonkers getting too wrapped up in chasing triggers. Repeatability is a key red flag that a particular substance or activity is a real trigger for you as Lisa noted.

Shannon



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2014 12:17PM by Shannon.

Hi Duke,

In my case, cheese was not a trigger, per se, but consuming it in large quantities - one or more wheels/day for an extended period of time upset my calcium balance. I had good afib control (~1 episode per year on average) prior to my a) divorce stress and b) stress eating cheese because of a). Then a) and b) caused poor afib control to diminish dramatically. Control was still poor after the stress went away. Once I quit cheese in mass quantities, my afib control reverted to its prior excellent status. It took me a long time to figure this out. I can empathize.

George

Duke - if your intracellular magnesium levels are well-optimized, then eating some cheese as you did with your 'sampling' should not be an issue....although, if you check some of the labels for sodium content, you may be surprised at the variations in sodium... some are quite high; yet others are amazingly low. There again, if your potassium levels are low along with magnesium, then both the salt (sodium) and the calcium could cause problems.

Since your reaction was fairly immediate, I'd be suspect of 'sensitivities'...

Tyramine content of cheese is known to cause migraines... note the following description indicating a sensitivity reaction... Rather than migraine, yours may be a reaction to tyramine resulting in heart palps or AF.

Tyramine is produced in foods from the natural breakdown of the amino acid tyrosine. Tyramine is not added to foods. Tyramine levels increase in foods when they are aged, fermented, stored for long periods of time, or are not fresh. [www.headaches.org]

Histamines are found in aged cheeses and often cause allergy-type reactions. Free glutamates can be found in some aged cheese... specifically parmesean types and roquefort. In the blue and brie cheese varieties, the mold spores can cause reactions.. Often, mold from one type gets mingled with others when stored and handled so there are cross-contamination issues as well. People who are not sensitive are typically not bothered...but one can build up a reactive sensitivity.

Jackie

Duke: Cheese is hard to digest for most. One thing for sure about afib, it's directly connected via the vagus nerve to our digestive tract. Spicy food, over-eating, greasy food, alcohol, all triggers.

Hello everyone,
Every points you all made make sense. I thank you for your comments.

Chisdodt, you mentioned vagus nerve and I read about vagus nerve sensitivity can affect AFib. Can any one tell me what and where is the vagus nerve? Thanks again.

Duke

Duke:

Here is some background:
<[www.healthline.com]
<[en.wikipedia.org]

From the afib perspective, it travels around the esophagus, the stomach and also the heart. It can slow the heart with a parasympathetic response.

In my case, when my electrolytes were out of whack, vagal triggers - like ice cold food & drink, the vagal time after orgasm, indigestion & etc were triggers. When my electrolytes are good, I can be as "vagal as I wanna be" without consequence.

George

Duke: As George so aptly replied; the vagus nerve is a extensive ganglion of nerves that control the parasympatheitc branch of our autonomic nervous system. Since it traverses through pretty much all of our internal organs, spine, brain, et. al, it interacts with just about everything we do in our daily and even nocturnal functions.
With me, not only did digestive issues affect my vagus response, thus, trigger afib, but also certain positions. In fact, if I were to lie in bed on my left side and put pressure on a specific region of my upper left back, viola, it was afib trigger. Since my Natale ablation in March, however, the only effect I have now are an occasional run of Pacs, but no more afib.

Duke - here is another angle to consider. I had terrible upset stomach which would trigger afib. My doctor diagnosed me with leaky gut. The theory is that particles of food were able to move through my intestine wall because of damage to the villi, and my body treated these particles as invaders and mounted an immune response to them. Any stomach upset seemed to be able to trigger the beast. I took an Alcat test and found a long list of foods that I had become sensitized to, and went to great lengths to avoid those foods and gradually reintroduce them, My doctor also had me do lots of other things from supplements to relaxation strategies, and to quit coffee and wine while I healed. All of the above, plus an ablation and my health gradually came back. I recall getting to the point you are at and how frustrating it was to have so many triggers and not really be able to figure them out.

What about alcohol occasionally? If I had 2-3 drinks a week, would that be safe? Or does alcohol trigger afib in less quantities then cheese?

-Eric

Certainly alcohol can be a trigger, but like any other thing, is it repeatable for YOU? The only way to know is to keep track.

Keep in mind that all alcohol is not created equal. Even if you aren't sensitive to the alcohol itself, there are many other variables (just like any other complex food). You may be able to handle some forms but not others. For example, maybe you are sensitive to the yeast in beer or wine, or the aromatics in gin. Maybe the sulfates in wine are a trigger, or the sugar in the rum sets AF off. Maybe none of these turn out to be a problem, and you can enjoy it just like the rest of the world does.

lisa
__________________________

So much of medicine is looking solely down the wrong end of the gun barrel, and that is really a pity for all of us---Shannon

Erich - Lisa offers good points. What form of alcohol? Hard liquor or wine/beer? It's known that alcohol is toxic to heart cells and other cells as well. The occasional glass of wine or beer may not bother some but could definitely bother others. Alcohol depletes magnesium.

Jackie

I eat a wide variety of cheeses and very often. Never been a trigger. Then again, carrying a heavy package up steps does it every time.
Nancy