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Reversing afib risk factors

Posted by GeorgeN 
Reversing afib risk factors
May 15, 2014 03:18PM
This would apply specifically to those who are not lone afibbers.

Dr. John <[www.drjohnm.org] says, "Here is my report of the most important presentation at HRS2014:
Is Atrial Fibrillation Necessary? The Most Important Study Presented at the Heart Rhythm Society 2014 Scientific Sessions (You'll need a free login for thissmiling smiley
<[www.medscape.com]
Here is a snipit: "
Quote
Background: Previous work from the Adelaide researchers has demonstrated the causative role of typical cardiovascular risk factors (obesity, high blood pressure, diabetes, smoking, alcohol, sleep apnea, etc) in promoting the substrate for atrial fibrillation. Last year at the Heart Rhythm Society 2013 Scientific Sessions, this group presented data showing that weight loss (in obese sheep) resulted in favorable structural and electrical properties of the atria[2]. Most notably, there was a reduction in interstitial fibrosis. They then demonstrated similar findings in humans. In this study [3], which was published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, they selected overweight AF patients on the waiting list for ablation and randomized them to either a physician-led lifestyle-intervention group or standard care. Both groups lost weight and improved on measures of overall health, but those in the aggressive-intervention group improved much more. Just like the sheep, humans who lost weight enjoyed shrinking LA volumes and striking drops in AF burden, with 30% of patients avoiding AF ablatio

Worth reading.

<[www.anzctr.org.au]

George
Re: Reversing afib risk factors
May 16, 2014 10:53AM
I lost 90+ lbs in the year 2010; 285 lbs to 197 lbs. I did it on the weight watchers diet. It took 10 months. I also walked almost everyday around 3.5 miles a day or approx. a 1 hour walk.

All of 2010 and 2011 I continued to maintain my goal weight by diet and exercise. I kept my weight off.

I was found with AFIB in Dec 2011; over a year after my weight loss and proper dieting. It turned out I was already at the persistent phase of AFIB.

Just saying it seems that sometimes there is no logical reason for why a individual develops afib.
Re: Reversing afib risk factors
May 16, 2014 01:58PM
WOW smackman that is very commendable. BTW I hope you are still doing well aft recent ablation. Mine was done in Feb this year also. Anyway, I read these articles and they are interesting but I'm with you. I am 180 lbs., was always athletic. I have good blood pressure, sometimes borderline, borderline cholest, NEVER smoked not one cig, eat pretty well always have, never salted my food (ever) and so on.......Yet I too am strickened by the beast. So I dont know, while I think doing those lifestyle changes may help reduce episodes, etc I agree there sometimes is no logic. I dont see going from someone with bad enough symptoms to consider ablation to feeling good enough to not consider it just by lifestyle changes ?? IDK
Re: Reversing afib risk factors
May 16, 2014 03:43PM
My take is that inflammation is the common element. In my case, I was chronically fit, trained and participated in endurance competitions. It was inflammation due to chronic fitness that precipitated the afib. In some cases, it can be inflammation from surgery. In others, the inflammation due to CVD, high BP or insulinemia. Reversing the causes of the inflammation may be helpful, but may not enough to stop afib, if irreversible substrate changes have occurred.
Re: Reversing afib risk factors
May 16, 2014 09:08PM
I'm guessing mine was inflammation due to gluten sensitivity that went unchecked for 13 years.

Sigh.
Re: Reversing afib risk factorsp
May 16, 2014 10:35PM
You are absolutely right Smackman, while its great that Dr John and others are starting to recognize what we have promoted here for the last 14 years, like with a number of his other stances, in my view, Dr John goes a bit overboard in making proclamations of grand breakthroughs at times. Maybe its just the growing journalist in him, and he is a good communicator with some very good points at times as well.

The issues he and Dr Day bring up in this new blog linked to above are certainly important and valid steps to help far better control AFIB likely for a majority of folks, but it is not the universal panacea they tend to paint with a too broad of a brush here.

It's like when the very first press on FIRM came out Dr J breathlessly pronounced a watershed event that would completely overturn ablation technology... It was premature hyperbole at the very least. These kind of responses often remind me of the 'true believer' syndrome when people suddenly discover a very positive connection with a valid point or issue that may have real merit, such as between better diet, nutrient repletion, stress reduction and other wise lifestyle choices and a solid reduction in AFIB incidence, and yet in a naive overblown optimistic impulse it is declared as a newly discovered 'Holy Grail' such the newly converted accolytes pronounce it the second coming when for the most part they are relative greenhorns in the area of their recent enthusiastic conversion. As in the good doc from Utah switching from jellied donuts and fast food to a largely vegan organic diet, slowing down a bit and losing lots of weight, lowers his BP and metabolic syndrome and is feeling much better.... The obvious and previously well-vetted outcome. I fully understand their rush of discovery and feeling of Eureka and seeing a panacea that can well help reduce AFIB burden substantially in many, if not most, who fully apply the principles, yet still falls short of a slate wiper cure that would make AFIB irrelevant or optional as just a matter of enough will power applied.

As scientists, it requires a more measured enthusiasm and the realization that saying AFIB is entirely 'optional' is taking it over the top.

Yes, some Chinese have some health benefits from a largely vegetarian diet in those areas of the country where they can't afford animal products for generations, and westernized or processed foods have been around only the last two decades. But AFIB is a big epidemic in China as well in growing degree too and they have ablation centers popping up in most all the major cities with lots of AFIB and ablation research being published out of China every month. Proportionally, it may still be less prevalent than in the US with its SAD diet and high fructose corn syrup 'diabetes/metabolic syndrome diet' and again the basic point is not only well taken, it has been our central theme and take home message since this website began, but holding up China as a place AFIB hardly exists is going much too far to try to emphasize that point.

I dont argue at all with the premise they put forth in this link, but saddling up the Great White Horse to announce it as the latest discovery and solution like that should be more measured, balanced and realistic in my view. Yet, all the while still fully encouraging a proper diet and better lifestyle as a key tool for better health all around. I often get the feeling Dr J is almost apologetic, at times, or reluctant, to be a modestly active ablationist. Or maybe he is just an idealist at heart frustrated by the druggery of medical bureaucracy and slow pace or genuine breakthroughs?

And yet, he does make some good points too and I enjoy many of his posts, especially when keeping the issue being discussed in balance. In my book, you often just have to balance those excellent points that it is very good he is writing about, with the sometimes over zealous context in which often the message gets delivered, and thus not get swept up too far in the hype that occasionally comes across.

On the otherhand, perhaps the way our sensationalizing press works these days, in its symbiotic relationship with the public, bloggers like Dr J really do have to trumpet such more or less obvious findings and points with enough zeal for it to really register with folks on a larger scale?

In any event, there is nothing in those findings that comes as anything new to long time readers of this message board and The AFIB Report, but certainly it is nice to see the Cardios and EPs on the front line starting to recognize the invaluable role of proactive self care and good diet and nutrition in the war on AFIB, Cardovascular disease, Cancer and other chronic diseases that plaque humanity these days. Let's just keep it in proportion as there are a huge number of folks who will never be able to eat enough good food and swallow enough supplements to suddenly reverse and turn off for good long term AFIB. That's the part I call them on here, and if you really questioned them their own daily experience in treating patients would verify that.

For all the good success stories they can quote with these self-help methods alone, there will be just as many, if not substantially more, that only found real freedom from a long existing beast in their lives via an expert ablation process, even if made even more consistent and solid with the wise combination of these very same nutritional and life style common sense protocols.

Shannon



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2014 05:08PM by Shannon.
Re: Reversing afib risk factors
May 16, 2014 11:26PM
That is interesting that China is having a roaring epidemic of AF, I don't think they drink lots of sodas and eat our western diet, to what would you attribute the great increase in AF? Maybe it is all the soy they eat.

Liz
Re: Reversing afib risk factors
May 17, 2014 02:00AM
Its relative Liz, the a Chinese epidemic may still be proportionally less than in the US, but they have no shortage of cases lining up for ablation all over the country. Stress of living conditions, heavy water and air pollution, exposure to poorly regulated and controlled toxic chemicals in Chinas unbridled race toward economic prosperity, all while decimating its natural resources and water and air quality... All that and more could be contributing to the rise in AFIB cases there over the last decade or two.

Also perhaps with their rapid economic expansion many more
can afford to start 'grazing eating' like in the west with all sorts of sweet snacks and processes foods added in in placebos a simpler even if protein starved veggie only diet out of necessity that had been the past norm?

The US may still well lead them in cases per capita, but their sheer total population numbers combined with the increasing percentage with AFIB may be getting closer to taking the total numbers crown... I'm not sure, but they certainly don't lack for enough cases in China to develop a number of robust AFIB research centers is my point. It's certainly a far cry from the projection of an almost idealized freedom from AFIB implied by the almost messianic tone in this blog report.

It reminds me of when one of the most famous well known maestros lamented to me one day how easily some less experienced EP abolitionists can get so easily swayed by new concepts or fancy new gear and often run way ahead of the real world reality those things actually provide in their enthusiasm and projection for the next great breakthrough to end all AFIB. That is what I often glean from this blog, and in spite of as week as in addition too, the often very interesting and valid points also being shared there. It's an interesting dichotomy and I feel, at least in part, might just reflect the conflicted feelings about this subject held by the author. Keeping in mind that real life is rarely black and white and is more often a blend of seemingly opposing aspects of reality.

It's clearly obvious that a large part of this is certainly made worse by poor diet and stress laden lives, no question about it, but to then extrapolate too far from that observation and thus imply AFIB is solely a matter of enough will power to change your life and habits is simply not true either and grossly overstates the mark. I just don't feel its good to overstate even the obvious benefits to health from good diet. We know its a powerful tool for major beneficial changes but is not a universal panacea making AFIB 'optional' in all cases by any means. And especially not after the horse has long ago left the barn.

Cheers Shannon



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2014 05:12PM by Shannon.
Re: Reversing afib risk factors
May 17, 2014 12:42PM
It certainly is refreshing to see that Dr. John is attempting to get the professional community to begin to think about causes and changes in lifestyle, diets, etc because ultimately, that's going to keep a patient healthier, longer. Reading the readers comments was most eye opening... although certainly not a surprise.

Fast food is rapidly permeating many Asian countries... and with that comes high sodium, and less in the way of fresh vegetables. China is also is very environmentally polluted..... air, land and water with heavy metals, esp. lead and mercury.

Jackie
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