Is AFIB a CAD?

Is AFIB considered a CAD (Coronary Artery Disease)?

The reason I ask is I received a letter from my Internal specialist. The letter says:

Your Thyroid test was normal.
Your Liver enzymes were normal.
Your complete blood count and electrolytes and kidney test were normal.

Cholesterol is 222, 200 is your desired

Triglycerides is 166

HDL is 52, which is fine

LDL is 137. Your Target is 70. If you have CAD you want to try and keep the LDL in the 70 range. I know you poorly tolerate statins, but that is your target,i.e. an LDL of 70 Everything else looks good.

For the record, I have a stent in a artery by my Heart that was installed in 2012. Is this why I am considered to have Coronary Artery Disease?

When I took this blood test, I was also still taking Multaq. I had stopped taking Lipitor about a week before this test.(10 mg a day).

What can I take to lower my LDL? I do not want to take a Statin after being informed on this website of its negative consequences.

Any comments/suggestions about these numbers and what I can do would be appreciated.

5 mg Valium a day as needed.
20 mg Prozac daily
15 mg Prevacid a day
60 cc shot of Testosterone Cypionate every 10 days. Testosterone is low due to schedule two narcotics.
.5 mg Arimidex 2x a week to keep Estrogen levels in check. T shots can cause rise in Estrogen.

100 mg Metoprolol ER 1x a day
25 mg HydroDiuril fluid pill 1x a day every 2 days.
Neurontin 900mg a day (for Neuropathic pain IC/CPPS)
800 mg of Magnesium daily . Different types
81 mg aspirin 1X a day. Heart Doctor order due to stent installed in Jan. 2012.
2.5 mg Eliquis 2X a day

Miralax 1x a day for constipation issues. I have tried so many different methods for Constipation since 2008. Fiber is in my diet but to much Fiber really Constipates me.




25 mg/hcr Fentanyl.patch changed every 2 days

1st ablation done Feb. 27, 2014 for Long term persistent AFIB Dr. Natale
2nd Ablation done June 16,2016 Dr. Natale LAA isolated

A couple of months ago in the thread "Cutting Supplements after Ablation Surgery??" Shannon wrote, in part:

"And the reliance on 'reference range endocrinology' which is the current standard of care in both endo and internal medicine, is one of the great failures of modern medicine. Resulting in untold many millions around the world improperly diagnosed and often either under or over-treated, meaning often with only marginal benefit at best and far too often left swinging in the breeze stuck on symptom control drugs for life while the underlining deficiency continues to progress unabated."

Your doctor may have looked at the lab reference ranges for your tests and found the results "normal".

If your doctor isn't aware of the distinction between "lab reference range" and "optimal range" he/she will most likely report results to you as being "normal" even though you actually may have a problem.

Potential problems that may manifest as a result of low thyroid hormone levels, for example, include: weight gain and the difficulty of trying to lose weight, lethargy, hair loss including periphery of eyebrows, edema of the feet, pretibial pitting edema (contrary to what one might read elsewhere about "pitting" edema), muscle aches including the shoulder area among other areas, constipation including "pellet stool", low basal temperature, low resting heart rate, and the list goes on and on.

A specific example of what low thyroid hormone levels can contribute to:

Since metabolism has slowed, the transit time of fecal material through the digestive system will have slowed. The typical once-a-day bowel movement will increase to perhaps every 3 or 4 or even 5 days the result of which can be constipation. The long transit time will allow a greater contact time, in comparison with normal bowel-movement time, of the fecal material against the intestinal walls. Polyp-forming mechanisms associated with the tribological aspects of the transit will have a greater time-of-action. The time-of-action for any potential carcinogens in the fecal material will have increased as well. Such a thyroid-mediated metabolic slowdown can then be seen as having the potential to contribute to colon cancer.

The actual test-result numbers are the important data to have, not a report of "normal".


PS--The thyroid/afib connection has been discussed on this forum before. Cardiac muscle is affected by low thyroid levels as are smooth muscles such as bladder muscle.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2014 08:23AM by morpheus.

Hi Smackman,

I'm not sure what the numbers are, but I would say the majority of posters on this website consider themselves to be lone affibers, in which case they wouldn't have coronary disease. Personally I like calling afib a condition rather than a disease. But I am sure it is considered to be a disease by most people. Coronary artery disease is the build up of plaque in your arteries. Plaque build up generally takes a long time to build up to where it causes a blockage. In your case it sounds like that is exactly what has happened with the end result being the placement of a stint. You certainly want to get your LDL level as close to normal as possible. In my case, I am not a lone afibber as I have controlled high blood pressure with meds, as well as some calcium build up in my arteries. Four years ago I was put on simvastatin which is a cholesterol drug. I stopped taking it after a few months, as I had a problem tolerating it. I have really watched my diet over the last ten years, but obviously I was not doing a good enough job, so I decided to take charge of the situation. You have to really read the labels on everything you purchase from super markets. Avoid all processed and packaged food, all unhealthy fats, sodium, sugar and cholesterol. Don't eat fast foods like burger and fries, anything deep fried, pizza, pasta, rice etc. Eat lots of lean chicken, fish, vegetables and fresh fruit. I also started eating steel cut oats every morning for breakfast. I throw in some blueberries, almonds, low fat yogurt and cinnamon. Oats are fairly high in carbs, so on Jackie's advice I would go over to my gym and work out after breakfast, to avoid sugar fluctuation. My diet change lowered my weight from 180 lbs. to 165 lbs, My cholesterol readings where totally normal as was my blood sugar. This is my personal experience and I know you will get a lot of great information from others on this site.

All the best

Lou

Coronary artery disease reflects problems with the plumbing. Atrial fibrillation reflects problems with the electrical wiring.

Smackman,

Afib is not CAD, however CAD can be an underlying cause of afib. Or I should say, inflammation related to CAD can be an underlying cause of afib. Your stent indicates CAD.

Here is the alternative view.

- LDL is not the issue for CAD, it is inflammation
- statins, to the extent they work, work because they lower inflammation (which can be done at much lower doses than those used to hit an LDL target).
- the standard cholesterol test does not directly measure LDL, it is calculated using the Friedewald Equation: LDL = Total cholesterol - HDL - (Triglycerides x .20)
- there are other tests that measure LDL particle count as well as density. It is thought that large, fluffy LDL are OK and small dense are not. This is in dispute as some think it is only particle count.
This segment of Dr. Oz gives a visual demonstration of the issue with large fluffly LDL vs. small dense; <[www.doctoroz.com]
second segement <[www.doctoroz.com]
- a direct way to measure CAD is the CIMT test (Carotid Intima Media Thickness Testing). This is a repeatable ultrasound test of the carotid arteries, testing thickness and for calcification.
- interestingly there are case studies showing LDL levels, as well as LDL particle counts getting very large at the same time that CIM thickness decreases.
- LDL is important for brain function
- low LDL levels are correlated with increased cancer
- triglyceride levels correlate very directly with carb intake
- a better measure of CAD risk, using the standard test is triglycerides/HDL. Less than 1 is best.

My take is that the inflammation is driven by serum glucose and insulin levels.

I started out my afib career as a long-time vegan. My path to afib was from chronic fitness, including high altitude races (like gaining 7,800' in 13.3 miles, topping out over 14,000'). I was fit but somewhat heavy. My blood lipid tests were stellar by standard measures - 149 TC, 48 HDL, 92 LDL, 9 VLDL, 43 Triglycerides.

I detrained and started my supplement program. Afib was very well controlled. I looked at long term studies and though lone afibbers had a good long term prognosis, quite a few ended up not being "lone" anymore. I was determined to figure out how to avoid this problem, if I could. I purchased a glucometer started testing my blood sugar. Though fasting tests were good, post prandial (after eating) were less stellar. So was a glucose tolerance test.

I started eating to minimize glucose spikes. This is difficult as a veg, so I gave that up and did it as a carnivore. Interestingly, I reduced my exercise time/effort dramatically and lost 35-40 pounds due to the diet switch.

My fasting glucose is typically now in the 70's (divide by 18 for those of you outside the US). My BP is 95-105/55-70.

One way diabetics are tested is an HBA1C test. This tests what % of red blood cells have been "glycated" or messed up by glucose. A diabetic level is >7%. However the correlation with increases in CAD start around 5%.

For some reading on this:

<[www.amazon.com]
<[www.amazon.com]
or a more detailed version of the above <[www.amazon.com]
<[eatingacademy.com]

Also Moore's book, previously referenced here: <[www.amazon.com] He talks a lot about how insulin (and by extension blood sugar) has an effect on sodium retention and blood pressure.

There is much more if you want.

I'm not looking to attack the status quo, only to make people aware of other points of view.

George

Hi Smackman,

I've been out of pocket since last week, George covered it well, your sent plus hypertension would technically qualify you as not a Lone Afibber. In fact if Cardios search hard enough for CVD evidence the roll call for true lone AFIB would get considerably smaller considering how cardiac fibrosis to any appreciable degree would qualify as structural heart disease.

But AFIB itself is not a CVD nor an arteriosclerotic condition. Its a electrical/metabolic dysfunction at its core from all that we can glean so far also with a healthy dose of genetic predisposition (which does not imply certain fate).

That's not a major change in BP so far, instead of increasing your beta blocker dose perhaps look to doing longer walks, explore learning yoga with deep rhythmic breathing exercise and other relaxation techniques. Also consider adding Jarrow Celery Extract capsule 2 caps a day in divided doses. And eat a lot more raw celery (not steamed or cooked) it has a compound in it that can often knock 5 to 10 points off your BP readings without the increased side effects from uppering of BB drug dose.

Shannon