Acupuncture for vagal and adrenergic afibs

Hello,

Many of us have read the article pointed out by a Larsen Newsletter concerning the treatment of atrial fibrillation with acupuncture. In fact, there are two articles in which Dr. Lombardi from Milan University describes the use of acupuncture for paroxysmal and persistent atrial fibrillation and in preventing atrial fibrillation recurrences after electrical cardioversion. But he doesn’t make differences between vagal and adrenergic affibers (J Cardiovasc Electrophysiol. 2011;22(3):241-247, World J Cardiol. Mar 26, 2012; 4(3): 60–65)
In these articles, he claims that the effectivity for the treatment of atrial fibrillation is compared to the most effective antiarrhythmic drug, amidarone.
I’m not sure if acupuncture has any effectivity for the treatment of atrial fibrillation and I don’t know if it’s indicated for both types of atrial fibrillations, the vagally-mediated and the adrenergic.
If we read the quote of one of these articles: “All patients of this latter group as well as patients with persistent AF randomized to acupuncture underwent 10 acupuncture sessions of 15-20 min duration on a once a week basis in the following spots (Figure (Figure2):2): PC-6 (Neiguan in modern Chinese language), which is reported to have a modulating effect on the autonomic nervous system, with a mainly vagomimetic and sympathicolytic action[16-18]; HT-7 (Shenmen in modern Chinese language), which is reported to have a calming and sedative effect on cardiac excitability[19]; BL-15 (Xinshu in modern Chinese language), which is reported to have a modulating effect on the autonomic nervous system[20]”.
The main spot in this treatment is the Neiguan spot, which has a vagomimetic and simpathicolytic action. According to this, my doubt is if this treatment could be useful for adrenergic affibers but not for vagally-mediated affibers like me, even if it could be counter-indicated.
Has anybody been received acupuncture and it’s been successful?


Enrique

Thanks for the reference to an interesting paper.

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

Enrique - I had vagal Afib for over 10 years, and went to an acupuncturist quite a few times for other reasons. I never had any relief or experienced any difference in my episodes from Afib at all.... maybe more helpful for those who are adrenergenic, as they seem to do better in relaxing, calm environments? Also, I don't think my acupunctuist was aware of the Neiguan spot....

Would be curious if anyone else has had good results for their Afib with acupuncture.

Barb

Hi Enrique,

I tried acupuncture from one of the best acupuncturist around here. It made me feel good, and did a lot of good things for me, except did not take care of my Afib. It is true that I tried acupuncture after my first ablation, since the Afibs were getting longer and I had them more often, and I only had approx. 8 sessions. I did not try it out before the ablation, may be it would have worked better. However, from what I read I could not find even a single case where acupuncture really "cured" Afib.

Peter

Enrique,

I have had great success with Acupuncture for chronic neck pain so I have ask about the possibility of his treatment helping me. At this point I have things on hold for a time as flec seems to be working. I will try it when my afib comes back on a more regular schedule. When I ask about it, he did say that he has helped people with it but didn't say that he stopped it. I got the idea that it may take quite a few sessions to help.

Last year I ask my EP about Acupuncture and he said that it has stopped it for just one of his patients. I was unable to follow up on the success as I could not find out who did the Acupuncture.

I think it would be worth a try only if you do research and get a top of the line guy that has had some success with treatment for AFIB. Finding a good acupuncturist is a lot like finding a top EP.

Good luck with it....ron H

I think that is why it would be best to go to an acupuncturist who will use the points specified by the study.
Some want to use points that they feel would be more appropriate from their diagnosis, but the study got results from working on the 3 points alone. If they are not used, obviously it is not the same treatment.

John

Enrique - I had two treatments a week for 10 weeks by an MD who was also a D.O.M...Doctor of Oriental Medicine in accupuncture. It did nothing for the afib. He was dumbfounced and took my case to his study group but they didn't come up with anything helpful either. I totally believe in the concept of accupuncture, but my experience is that you have to correct the missing electrolytes/minerals that support electrical conduction pathways and putting the needle in the insertion points to stimulate or open the meridian flow doesn't do that. If the needles had deliered an IV Myers Cocktail, I probably would have had great results.

Previously, I had accupuncture treatments for 'golf elbow' pain that worked like a charm after only a few treatments and never did return.


Jackie

Hello Jackie
Did you MD use the three spots that those articles report?


Enrique

Enrique ... it was more than 3 points... This was in 2003 so I don't recall specifically which they were. With all the needles, I'm assuming he hit those three, at least.

Jackie

Hi Enrique et al,

I am happy to share my accupuncture/ tcm treatment results.
I tuned in today since my ablation is scheduled with Dr. Natale next week.
My accupuncture experienced covered years and hundreds of appointments and a cure was not achieved. There were many occasions where conversion was achieved and long periods where flutter (my main symptom) was held at bay only through acupuncture. Much of the treatment was focused on my "metabolism, and balance". This approach was consistent with my diagnosis of vagal afib/flutter.

Results of acupuncture I feel vary widely, dependent on the practitioner. My choice for practitioner was a China-trained, heavily experienced, 4th generation traditional doctor who resettled over here from Taiwan. "Traditional" chinese medicine has roots prior to the cultural revolution during which Chairman Mao felt inspired to first outlaw and later "revise" the art of Chinese medicine. What is taught today is a revised, simplified version and the rest, generally more subtle, esoteric practices, are available through the sources such as the doctor I have.
My choice has been generally but not wholly positive.

Perhaps because tradition is so highly valued in that culture, I didn't have access to the 3-points mentioned. He used only neiguan (pc-6) and occasionally heart meridian HT-5 (?), the wrist point. Toward the end of my treatment period, he came across the Italy study and applied the 3 points and I had great success, conversion. But only on one occasion. Generally, his treatments had effect for the period between appointments at which point I would tend to go out of rhythm. Medications were somewhat helpful but this continued to be the pattern.

His position is that my condition is "palpitations". Afib didn't fit in his framework of symptoms. He picked up on my digestive issues quickly and treated them. I always left relaxed. Neiguan treatment generally resulted in a noticeable relaxation of my chest. I am very impressed with this point! I have used it often for acupressure when I wake up at night with palpitations and inability to sleep. It is very helpful, often getting me back to sleep. The herbal formula an-shen-bu- gives me similar results. The pericardium meridian is the acupuncturist's most direct way to affect the heart it seems. It addresses "chest tightness", a common symptom for some of us. The heart point on the wrist (HT-?) is secondary for me.

What I learned from my treatment with TCM is a valuable part of my approach and I no longer get treatments as they are so expensive. The acupressure and herbs play a role day to day. My greatest success has been finally getting effective chiropractic treatment. This addressed my life long alignment issues that other doctors with tons of experience could not achieve but a slight, young lady chiropractor could. The ache between my shoulder blades was dealt with. This is a problem for a high percentage of people. This point is on the bladder (BL-6?) that is the third of 3-point treatment.

The Italy protocol reflects the effectiveness of Chinese medicine. However, this treatment is only part of a complete treatment that fully addresses the individual obviously and begs the question of what the potential for acupuncture in afib might be.

My lingering regret is that my trusted doctor did not treat my back or refer me to someone else. I was mistaken in depending fully on him because he is holistic. My position is that vagal affibers could benefit from these inexpensive holistic methods by self-administering the 3-points treatment using thumbs for the arm points and a tennis ball for the bladder point on the back. What is lacking in technique could be overcome with repitition. A chiropractor may address vagal issues. By comparison, these approaches gave better results than my supplement regime and are at least equal to the medical approach.

JohnC










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Hello John,
I'm sorry for not having answered before. I have gone to the acupuncturist some seasons. He only used the three mencioned points specified by the study. The cure has not achieved. Even it has worsen my symptoms. In the mentioned article doesn't distinguish between vagal and adrenergic affibers. As Barb said it maybe more helpful for those who are adrenergenic, because my symptoms after some appointments were a decreasing in the heart rate, PAC's and an initiation of atrial fibrillation.

Thanks to all