Woke up in afib today. Natural tips and techniques?

Hey all,

So, it's been 15 days since my last incident, and once again, I woke up, and had that funny feeling in my chest, and about 1 min later.. BOOM.

I'm still in it as I'm typing this, but it's not so bad this time.

As soon as I realized I was going into afib (vagal, I think) I took a baby aspirin, a cardizem 120mg ER (as recommended by my cardiologist), then went for a hard run for about 20 mins (hoping to knock myself back). Once I got back, I filled a basin full of cold water and dunked my head. Neither of them seemed to work fully, but my heart rate is much lower then normal.

Are there any other "homemade" techniques that people have used to stave off a vagal afib as soon as it comes on?

Online I've seen cayenne pepper, oj, EFT, running, cold water, potassium pills. I know George has had good success with that megadose of ginger (the new force pills).

Also, should I be taking a cardizem when I get an afib. My only issue with taking it is that i know it can interact with ginger and other "blood pressure" lowering things.

Thanks guys!

I'm frustrated I've had 2 attacks 2 weeks apart, but I'm feeling calm because I know you guys have been where I've been.

-Eric

Erich,

This is how it works, AFIB is the great teaser. It gives you breaks making you think its no big deal then reminds you whose boss again while it still has the upperhand. Its a war of attrition and a lifelong management issue that forces you to stay in the game long after you've gotten fed up with having too.

You definitely found the right boot camp here for preparing yourself to take back the reins and gain a real measure of control over this thing. It's why we have such a loyal community here of long time participants on this board always keeping one foot in the game at least even many years after their last episode.

You can try drinking some hot water, not scalding of course, but lot hot tea (without caffeine) or just plain water, but better yet mixed with ginger if you seem to be a Vagal Afibber as I believe you said you mostly were. That usually works best if you do it very early after onset of an episode, but its worth a try even now. Its kind of the flip side of drinking cold water which is (was) such a reliable trigger for many of us.

You may have to ride it out at this point as you've tried a number of Vagal response moves already. The cardizem likely lowered your HR and maybe with the help of the cold water on the face was or run early on you HR stabilized at a lower rate of AFIB this time.

Hang in there, this too shall pass, eventually.

Shannon



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2014 12:31AM by Shannon.

Putting your face in cold water should be done immediately upon an onset of afib, before the full chorus chimes in.....

Erich, you note that your heart rate is much lower than normal. What's your resting heart rate (basal heart rate)? The lowest (non pathological) heart rates occur during sleep. Studies have shown that there is about an 8% drop from a resting heart rate. While progressing through the various sleep phases the heart rate may decrease a bit further.

If you own a recording pulse oximeter you can simultaneously gather your heart-rate data as well as your oxygen saturation (SpO2) levels while sleeping. Intermittent, low, sleeping SpO2 values are associated with sleep apnea, for example. Sleep apnea can exacerbate A-Fib and, in addition, might have a causative role as well.

The fact that you can perform a 20 minute "hard run" probably implies good conditioning. But, unless you're very-well conditioned or bordering on world-class-athlete status (which "much lower than normal" implies to me) then it's probably worthwhile to investigate the reason(s) behind the low resting heart rate. Did you have a low resting heart rate before cardizem?

There has been a gradual acceptance of a new "normal" range for heart rate from the old 60-100 to the new 50-90. The lower end of the new scale was set to accommodate the well-conditioned (such as yourself?) into the "normal" range. So if your basal heart rate is lower than 50 there should be a good reason(s) for it. Thyroid-function tests should be considered.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2014 04:33PM by morpheus.

Thanks Shannon & Tom.

I'm back in NSR. 4 hours, just like last time.

Last episode was 2 weeks ago to the day, and took 4 hours to convert normally. Can I expect this to be a pattern?

Doing the mile jog/run + Ginger Tea + Cardizem + Cold water helped keep my heartbeat under 120bpm. I'd say it was at about 90-100 the final couple of hours. Just felt like bad indigestion more then anything else.

My last episode was 140 bpm when the EKG caught it, and spiked to about 180bpm (I'm guessing). I didn't use any of these techniques last time.

-Eric

Morpheus,

Actually, what I was trying to wrestle with earlier is that most people who have vagal fibs seems to be in great shape with low resting heart rates. My heart rate when sitting in a chair is about 75, which is totally normal (and much higher) then these other guys with vagal fibs, so I was curious if you could have a vagal a fib with normal heart rates.

I still think I'm vagal in nature because I get them at night / coming out of sleep / post-workout.

I had my thyroid checked, and it was supposedly normal.

I think you're right about having sleep apnea, I was scheduled for a sleep study, but my wife is full term pregnant, so I don't want to risk being locked away in a room while she goes into labor. I'll do the sleep study post-babies arrival. It will give me an excuse to get a good nights sleep. Incidentally, my dad is overweight and has sleep apnea, so I've got the genes for it :/

Thanks!

-Eric

Good points Morpheus.

And Eric, the pattern will hold as long as it does but will definitely change at some point. Its the nature of the beast. In the vast majority of the cases getting gradually ore frequent and longer in duration the longer you have AFIB that has not been fully brought under control either with expert attention to natural dietary, supplement protocols and exercise + stress management over time, and/or with the help of an expert ablation process. Often times the best results come from a liberal dose of all of the above, taking advantage of all the weapons at our disposal in this ongoing trench warfare with the beast.

There will be times when you get very cocky that you have slain the beast only to get knocked off you feet again down the road, so its good to recognize patterns and sometimes you can use those to help circumvent or minimize a breakthrough, but in the big picture they are changing and morphing all the time.

Shannon

You've clarified that your resting heart rate is within the normal range and that's a pertinent piece of information to have.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2014 05:11PM by morpheus.

Eric,

Try taking a ginger capsule with each meal .
www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Ginger-Root-Extract-250-mg-90-Vcaps/597
I suspect your Afib could be stress related as you are expecting a new child in your life soon and ginger may not be as helpful.

I assume you are taking the supplements, magnesium, omega 3, etc.

Colin

Hi Eric,
I know the feeling. Was diagnosed about 7 years ago. Started taking flecainide Feb 2013 and it seemed to be working ok. 50mg three times a day. Also taking 25mg atenolol (beta blocker) twice a day. When my a-fib starts, I immediately take 50mg of atenolol under tongue followed a short time later by 50mg flecainide. Wash it all down with potassium gluconate 500-1000 mg with water. Then I wait about half hour. If I'm still in a-fib, I drink 8oz of low sodium V8 (lots of KCl). That usually will do the trick. Throw in 1mg of lorazapam and stick a fork in me I'm done.

My last episode happened last week and lasted about 4 hours but most episodes only last from 30min to 1hour. I believe that my last episode was triggered by a nasty outbreak of herpes, for which I was taking 500mg valtrex twice daily for 4 days. Once the outbreak cooled down, no more a-fib episodes. At least for now. LoL. Herpes outbreak has always been a trigger for me.

I have come to grips with the fact that I'm going to need an ablation sooner than later.

The scary part is when your heart begins to transition from a-fib to NSR. There seems to be a long pause, and you feel really weird, then warm/fuzzy NSR.

Cheers
Ralph

1 week and 20 minutes to the day. Back in a fib.

Ran my head under the cold shower for a minute,, took one of those hardcore ginger pills and have been doing "heart opening yoga poses" and it's kept my heart rate down, even if it's flopping around a bit.

I tried magnesium glyconate? 200mg for the first time last night. My stomach wasn't able to tolerate it well. Should I cut the pill in half to 100mg? Two episodes in two weeks means I should ramp up "The Strategy". Nothing to lose now. :/

I hate v8 with a passion, but I might have to choke some down in an hour or so (thanks Ralph )



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2014 12:34PM by erich.

Wow! I converted back in 80 minutes!

Now to decipher what did the trick (or was it everything).

I ran my head under cold water, then pounded some of our homemade ginger/tumeric/cinnamon tea, then had one of those ginger force capsules that GeorgeN said worked for him, then I did about 45 minutes of yoga/deep breathing.

Then I was sitting on a chair chatting with my 39+ week pregnant wife and I was like.... i think I'm back!



-Eric

I would encourage you to get the sleep study done ASAP if you want to avoid afib. The fact that your episodes begin at night or upon waking indicate sleep apnea is a likely cause. I had similar problems. Three months after using a CPAP machine, my afib episodes suddenly stopped. Even though it took a while to succeed with the treatment, the results are amazing. I feel so grateful -- and surprised -- because my arrhythmias began years ago and got steadily worse. I was heading toward the ablation route. Now, my EP thinks I will never need one. Hope the same holds true for you.

Thanks,

I will get a sleep study done once our baby is born (my wife is 39.5 weeks pregnant). I didn't do it beforehand because I was worried she would go into labor while I was away.

-Eric