CPAP and AFIB

I have apnea and was ordered a CPAP. I used it for a while but found it difficult to use. I realize through different information available everyone says it is very important to stay with the therapy to avoid afib triggers from poor breathing during sleep. Problem is I feel the pressure actually triggers small episodes. I can almost immediately feel some palps when my breathing and the pressure from the machine start to tangle. Am I crazy?? I started again last night and now this morning afib is kicking. It would make sense due to the direct effect on the pulmonary system right?

I also was diagnosed with sleep apnea 14 months ago. I stugggle wearing the mask; Any mask and I have 3 different mask.
I loose sleep trying to make the CPAP work BUT only a small percentage of individuals diagnosed with sleep apnea wear there equipment; It is a big problem for me.

I have tried really hard; I wake up with my mask rubbing my nose and my mouth is so dry ; I have the humidifier cranked to max.

I feel your pain. As far as AFIB episodes, I have never woke up with AFIB.When my AFIB comes, it is Persisitent and only goes away with a electric cardio version. I will be Ablated in April at the latest.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2014 09:42AM by smackman.

Hey Smackman, yeah you would think there would be a better fix for apnea. the mask etc is very inconvenient. Once I woke up tinking I was wrestling my boss and had the hose up in the air thinking it was his arm. My ablation is in Feb!

CPAP triggered my afib before my ablation, think the rush of air stimulated sympathetic nervous system .
No you're not crazy but I thought maybe I was.

McHale

Thanks good to know I am not imagining it.

Tsco, as you probably know by now, OSA is a major contributing factor toward AFIB genesis and sustaining arrhythmia over time. Hence the added wisdom of getting a solid ablation done by skilled EP and, of course, make sure he or she knows all about your OSA beforehand as it will likely have a bearing on just what they do during your ablation to perhaps help reduce the OSA to AFIB triggering connection to some degree.

Shannon

very interesting, so there may be a trigger like a physical location relative to whatever is going on with the apnea indicating the area and it is ablated. Or I guess it may indicate an area in the heart for triggers?

According to my cardiologist who has 5 offices and practicing for over 25 years when he's presented with AFIB it's off to the sleep clinic.
Most come back with sleep apnea diagnosis. During my titration study the apneas went away but I was going in and out of AFIB all night.
My advice to all really is try to use the CPAP the first few months at least to let your heart heal so you don't trigger AFIB/flutter episodes.
Let the lesions heal to create Good solid barriers to prevent any triggering from the PVs during an apnea event especially when O2 levels drop significantly.


McHale



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2014 05:18PM by McHale.

In one of my posts in this thread: <[www.afibbers.org] a friend with afib & apnea gave me the name of a dental appliance (OTC) he uses instead of a CPAP machine. It has stopped his afib!

George

I've been on CPAP therapy for a decade now. My number is high (19). I don't know why, but it only took me a few days to get adjusted to it. Since I've been on it, I've only been without it for 3 days (I left my machine at an airport and they were mailing it to me). Those 3 days I couldn't sleep. It was horrible!

Nancy

GeorgeN
Yes I have been counciled by my dentist on this device. I have Aetna insurance and they sent a letter saying I had been reviewed and approved for the device but my dentist says they will deny payment once the invoice actually is issued. This means I would be stuck with the two thousand dollar payment. I just wonder if the cardiac docs would support with a letter or something indicating the urgency. I mean for us it is more than just a result of snoring. My dentist says it has been extremely effective on her husband.

Here is my previous post - he had the expensive dentist provided device, but then got one for $60US that he liked better-

From my friend: "The device I purchased on line is thru Vital Sleep – best to Google. There are others, but this one seem to work best for me. Also, there is a tongue holding device I ordered from Canada – Snore Solution, which did not work well for me – its about $99, but a similar device is prescription fitted in US by dentists – I think for approx $1000. The idea was to get away from the jaw adjustment move."

George

My setting is 8. I have never slept a full night with the cpap and 3 different mask I have tried. They hurt the bridge of my nose; It feels uncomfortable on my forehead, etc.

I have tried diligently to make this CPAP work for me; I do not get quality sleep when using it. I wake up with the dry mouth; I use Bioten; I have tried for a year but especially the last 5 months.

I have to have a full mask; I sleep with my mouth open. I tried the nasal pillows; No way.

I wish I could conquer this Mask/machine but I cannot.

Dental devices only work for mild sleep apnea, AHI 5-15 if it works at all depending where the obstruction is.
Anything over a Apnea Index 20-60>or more forget about it.

McHale

tsco:
No, you're not crazy about the palps or afib. I was fitted for a CPAP one afternoon at a clinic with a nasal head set. While having the airflow adjusted by the nurse, I went instantly into a full blown afib episode. The nurse told me that a sudden rush of air through the upper respiratory system can be a vagal trigger for some. It was for me. Fortunately the episode was short lived, 5 minutes, and self converted. I opted for the full face mask only to contract a fungal infection from it because the hospital failed to clean the device properly. Needless to say, I decided to forgo the whole CPAP strategy and trained myself to lie on my side and avoid sleeping on my back. However, because I was diagnosed as a mild apnea case I decided to do a process of elimination strategy for myself and started with my toothpaste. Most toothpaste has a sulfate chemical that is used to make the toothpaste foam or suds up for a more complete cleansing. From my research I found that some people have reactions to this specific chemical, causing canker sores, lesions, herpes outbreaks, and extreme dry mouth. Lo and behold, the one absolute symptom that I noticed when awaking from sleep apnea was that my mouth was severely dry. So, I tried a toothpaste called Biotene Dry Mouth, which is used to not irritate a dry mouth. What I can say is this: each time I use the Biotene, my apnea is very mild and next to nothing. When I go back to the standard toothpaste, my apnea episodes spike and are much more severe. My conclusion is that when breathing through the mouth while sleeping, the tongue, throat, tonsils, etc. become dessicated, irritated, and then swollen, thus hindering airflow.

I have been using an APAP (CPAP) machine for some time along with minute quantity of infused O2 in order to sleep without popping a vein. Trust me when I say that your first step to recovery is to deal with outstanding issues like sleep apnea - and trust me when I tell you that sleep apnea is NOT a minor affliction. Sleep apnea KILLS.

If you are having trouble dealing with it I can suggest two things. Firstly, that you go one step up to an APAP machine that regulates the pressure presented based on apnea events and provides data on what it is you are experiencing; and secondly, that you get onto a forum that will guide you to the right equipment and especially masks... I use a full face mask (having said that, it covers my nose and mouth only) as I am often a mouth breather and this mask, a Quattro Pro full face mask makes life easier. In fact, I cannot imagine a night of sleep without it. I actually purchased a second Resmed S9 Auto APAP machine out of pocket just in case and have a cheap beat up CPAP machine built like a tank for when I am travelling.

Get yourself a pulse oximeter as well. The one that I have was $125, and has a rechargeable battery and memory so that I can leave it on my fingertip all night to get a picture of what my pulse rate looks like and what my blood oxygen looks like through the night. With the APAP machine I am pretty level and sleep fairly well except for the risings caused by an aging bladder and side-effects of dofetilide. With infused oxygen my SpO2 remains above 90% and I get plenty of REM sleep. To be clear, I am NOT on oxygen but rather the air I am breathing through the APAP machine is enriched with oxygen so that when my breathing goes very shallow during L4 and REM sleep my blood oxygen remains above 90% and my body does not arouse itself to get more air. Love it. Love it. Love it. I use an oxygen concentrator that puts out 5 L/M of oxygen infused into the airline of my CPAP. Works well.

Alternatively, you can leave your sleep apnea untreated, continue to suffer from the ravages of aFib along with skyrocketing pulse rate and skyrocketing blood pressure during apnea events. One of these will eventually kill you and they will say "he/she died peacefully in their sleep".

At the VERY least you want to get a sleep study done by a REPUTABLE EXPERIENCED clinic and physician specialist to get a handle on this. And do not be afraid to adjust pressures presented... insist on an APAP machine which will adjust pressures automatically. Learn as much as you can about sleep apnea, its treatment and its side effects.

DO NOT SIT on this. Personally? No APAP machine? I feel like a bag of crap in the morning and am dead tired all day... in fact, for two or three days as a result of lack of treatment.

Good luck to you.




tsco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have apnea and was ordered a CPAP. I used it
> for a while but found it difficult to use. I
> realize through different information available
> everyone says it is very important to stay with
> the therapy to avoid afib triggers from poor
> breathing during sleep. Problem is I feel the
> pressure actually triggers small episodes. I can
> almost immediately feel some palps when my
> breathing and the pressure from the machine start
> to tangle. Am I crazy?? I started again last night
> and now this morning afib is kicking. It would
> make sense due to the direct effect on the
> pulmonary system right?

Murray L

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tikosyn uptake Dec 2011 500ug b.i.d. NSR since!
Herein lies opinion, not professional advice, which all are well advised to seek.

Have a look at the Quattro Pro full face mask. It has a forehead brace that relieved the pressure on the bridge of my nose and the rubber gasket that seals to your face is designed to work with 0 - 20 cmH2O pressure.... and feels like a pillow. I love it and have several. I wash them in Control III antibacterial agent when I have gone through all of them. I let them soak for a half hour or more and give them a quick wipe and then rinse thoroughly and let them air dry. I wash my humidifier tank at the same time as well as my hose. DO NOT WASH that Velcro headstrap stuff or it will curl and become almost useless. Best to use it until it gets dirty and then just replace it .... cheap stuff.

QUATRO PRO FULL FACE MASK. You can thank me later.




smackman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My setting is 8. I have never slept a full night
> with the cpap and 3 different mask I have tried.
> They hurt the bridge of my nose; It feels
> uncomfortable on my forehead, etc.
>
> I have tried diligently to make this CPAP work for
> me; I do not get quality sleep when using it. I
> wake up with the dry mouth; I use Bioten; I have
> tried for a year but especially the last 5
> months.
>
> I have to have a full mask; I sleep with my mouth
> open. I tried the nasal pillows; No way.
>
> I wish I could conquer this Mask/machine but I
> cannot.

Murray L

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tikosyn uptake Dec 2011 500ug b.i.d. NSR since!
Herein lies opinion, not professional advice, which all are well advised to seek.

The Respironics S9 Auto comes with a heated humidifier which I use only on the driest and coldest of days.... it also comes with a heated hose and this I crank up and play with until I get some room temperature air flowing despite environment. Makes sleep all that more comfy and solid. I believe it was a huge trigger for aFib before getting it squared away. OSA is not something you want to trifle with. Not by a long shot.

Murray L

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tikosyn uptake Dec 2011 500ug b.i.d. NSR since!
Herein lies opinion, not professional advice, which all are well advised to seek.

Murray L Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have a look at the Quattro Pro full face mask. It
> has a forehead brace that relieved the pressure on
> the bridge of my nose and the rubber gasket that
> seals to your face is designed to work with 0 - 20
> cmH2O pressure.... and feels like a pillow. I
> love it and have several. I wash them in Control
> III antibacterial agent when I have gone through
> all of them. I let them soak for a half hour or
> more and give them a quick wipe and then rinse
> thoroughly and let them air dry. I wash my
> humidifier tank at the same time as well as my
> hose. DO NOT WASH that Velcro headstrap stuff or
> it will curl and become almost useless. Best to
> use it until it gets dirty and then just replace
> it .... cheap stuff.
>
> QUATRO PRO FULL FACE MASK. You can thank me
> later.
>
>
>
>
> smackman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My setting is 8. I have never slept a full
> night
> > with the cpap and 3 different mask I have
> tried.
> > They hurt the bridge of my nose; It feels
> > uncomfortable on my forehead, etc.
> >
> > I have tried diligently to make this CPAP work
> for
> > me; I do not get quality sleep when using it. I
> > wake up with the dry mouth; I use Bioten; I
> have
> > tried for a year but especially the last 5
> > months.
> >
> > I have to have a full mask; I sleep with my
> mouth
> > open. I tried the nasal pillows; No way.
> >
> > I wish I could conquer this Mask/machine but I
> > cannot.

I have this mask; It is the "mask of choice" but I cannot sleep with it all night long. I think my issue might be I have the cheapest CPAP machine available. It is a PR System One REMstar 150 CPAP Machine with a humidifier.

[www.directhomemedical.com]

The most popular machine last year was the Resmed S9 Auto. It collected data on an SD ramcard which you could then dump into your computer and get piles of data. I often set the timer on my pulse oximeter and recorded all night, matching data from each. What an eyeopener! Even went so far as to get an Accutor BP monitor to monitor my BP automatically for a while during sleep and that was an even bigger eye opener! During an apnea event, blood oxygen plummets, pulse rate and BP spike. Then all returns to normal fairly quickly. This is the time during which it is suspected the body will throw a clot and folks with OSA will have a stroke. The "he/she died peacefully in their sleep" syndrome. DUH?

Murray L

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tikosyn uptake Dec 2011 500ug b.i.d. NSR since!
Herein lies opinion, not professional advice, which all are well advised to seek.