Nattokinase: Heart Attack & Stroke Prevention ....and more

In addition to CR 39 and 40 sessions, following is a review that should serve to clarify the action of the enzyme, nattokinase, to help prevent formation of blood clots or break down those that do form. This should be helpful to new readers.

Jackie

A report from Health Sciences Institute published some time ago (but consolidated in a new book) relates the work of Dr. Hiroyuki Sumi, the Japanese researcher working at the University of Chicago’s medical school on fibrinolytic foods including the Japanese folk remedy natto (food).

The report explains that blood clots (thrombi) form when strands of protein (fibrin) accumulate in a blood vessel which can cause angina or heart attack… or if released from the heart chamber into the blood stream, can go to the brain and cause reduced oxygen and senility or an outright stroke. The researchers estimate that 60% of all senility in Japan is caused by blood clots that diminish blood flow to the brain.

The body produces several enzymes that promote the formation of blood clots and only one enzyme (plasmin) that dissolves the clots. Plasmin production diminishes with age.

Stroke victims are usually treated with t-PA (tissue plasminogen activator) such as urokinase and it does help save lives. But, it’s not a perfect cure, the report says. TPAs are expensive and the duration of the drug is short. Not every patient gets TPA (cost). Urokinase loses effectiveness within four to 20 minutes after administration.

The classic Sumi research project showed that when the enzyme, nattokinase, was dropped on an artificial clot in a petri dish at room temperature, the blood clot gradually dissolved and disappeared in 18 hours.

Over the years since then, the enzyme nattokinase has been used successfully to thin and dissolve clots effectively and quickly without side effects. Blood clots dissolve almost 50% faster with nattokinase…in as little as two hours, the HSI report indicates. Nattokinase has been the subject of 17 studies including two human trials… one at Oklahoma State University.

“The action of nattokinase in the body is that it bolsters the body’s natural abilities to fight blood clots in several ways. It closely resembles plasmin and dissolves fibrin directly. Plus it enhances the body’s production of both plasmin and other natural clot-dissolving agents.”

Martin Milner, ND, of Portland, Oregon, has been involved in promoting the use of Nattokinase for many years, as has Ralph Holsworth, DO who also worked with Dr. Sumi to bring the enzyme here to the US consumers.

Dr. Milner says that… “nattokinase is actually superior to conventional clot-dissolving drugs since TPAs like urokinase are only effective when taken intravenously and often fail because a stroke or heart attack victim’s arteries have hardened beyond the point where they can be treated by a clot-dissolving agent. Nattokinase, however, can help prevent the hardening with an oral dose of as little as 100 mg a day.”

An additional advantage of daily intake of nattokinase is reduction in blood pressure as it helps inhibit the production of angiotensin converting enzyme (ACE) and therefore lowers blood pressure without drug use.

Nattokinase has also been shown to degrade amyloid plaque in Alzheimer’s disease.

J. Agric. Food Chem., 2009, 57 (2), pp 503–508
Abstract
More than 20 unrelated proteins can form amyloid fibrils in vivo which are related to various diseases, such as Alzheimer’s disease, prion disease, and systematic amyloidosis. Amyloid fibrils are an ordered protein aggregate with a lamellar cross-β structure. Enhancing amyloid clearance is one of the targets of the therapy of these amyloid-related diseases. Although there is debate on whether the toxicity is due to amyloids or their precursors, research on the degradation of amyloids may help prevent or alleviate these diseases. In this study, we explored the amyloid-degrading ability of nattokinase, a fibrinolytic subtilisin-like serine protease, and determined the optimal conditions for amyloid hydrolysis. This ability is shared by proteinase K and subtilisin Carlsberg, but not by trypsin or plasmin.
[pubs.acs.org]

Source:
Miracles from the Vault
– an Anthology of Underground Cures
Health Sciences Institute
© 2013
Baltimore, MD.

Conference Room 39 and 40
[www.afibbers.org]
[www.afibbers.org]

Nattokinase works and like many foods is far superior to the rat poison doctors give out called Coumiden and Warfin. Today there are new drugs on the market but who want to be the guniea pig with those knowing the history of doctored and biased reports drug companies fabricate. Many times in the past false hoods and outright lies have been used to hide the dangers of drugs and people have to die before the FDA slowly reacts. One more indication the FDA is more interested in keeping the drug companies healthy than the citizens they are suppose to protect.

ronbn49 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nattokinase works and like many foods is far
> superior to the rat poison doctors give out called
> Coumiden and Warfin. Today there are new drugs on
> the market but who want to be the guniea pig with
> those knowing the history of doctored and biased
> reports drug companies fabricate. Many times in
> the past false hoods and outright lies have been
> used to hide the dangers of drugs and people have
> to die before the FDA slowly reacts. One more
> indication the FDA is more interested in keeping
> the drug companies healthy than the citizens they
> are suppose to protect.

Whom are we to believe? Our Cardiologist or EP's or a OTC drug to save our life from a clot being thrown to our brain from AFIB?
I take Pradaxa and have since Dec. 2011 with no issues.

Does any AFIB patients have a Cardiologist or EP to tell them to take Nattokinase and stop the Warfin or Pradaxa or any of the other blood thinning drugs?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2013 05:40PM by smackman.

Saw a Pradaxa commercial on television yesterday. They mentioned AFIB and showed a guy with all smiles. The balance of the 60 second commercial was spent warning the public/viewers of all the downsides of Pradaxa.

Maybe it's jus tme but I'd rather have something that has an antidote in case, heaven forbid, I have an accident and am bleeding and need to address the INR.

I know that Vitamin K I/V and some Plasma products will stop the blood thinner in its tracks. Not so with the others. So who are we to believe? Big Pharma or 50 years of experience and empirical data.

Murray L

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tikosyn uptake Dec 2011 500ug b.i.d. NSR since!
Herein lies opinion, not professional advice, which all are well advised to seek.

anybody that listens to this nonsense that stops Coumadin or the new anticoagulants for Nattokinase should have their head examined...literally. Take it from somebody that has been on the other side looking in and not be able to speak...........



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2013 11:23PM by McHale.

Mchale, have you read any of the studies posted here by Jackie on the effectiveness of Nattokinase? You are calling it "nonsense," but is it nonsense that there is no antidote for Pradaxa? I'm very sorry for your experience in having a stroke, but the evidence is strong for Nattokinase dissolving clots and preventing them by keep platelets "slippery" so that clots cannot form.

I'm not saying you should switch; we all make decisions based on our own situation and experience. Can we disagree without claiming that anyone who disagrees with us "should have their head examined?" I'm sure there are some who think the same about anyone who takes Pradaxa. Best to you.

Louise

Louise,
When I said get your head examined I meant it literally....I had 2 prior strokes I knew nothing about that only an MRA detected. I had my head examined!
Actually this was not directly as much to Jackie but the other poster who called NattoKanese more effective and superior.
There is no proof and no large randomized controlled clinical trials to test the efficacy and effectiveness within a certain group of afibbers further categorized by CHADS scores and LAA morphology and all these tiny studies are coming from the manufacturers or those with a vested interest of NattoKanese , strength and quality can vary etc....
This is dangerous to think a clot dissolved in a pertri dish is some kind of proof.
We had at few people stroke out already just being on NattoKanese. It's just not good advice and this has been refuted many times on here but it keeps being posted.
Does NattoKanese have a place...probably but why take a chance?
Being a stroke victim I'm here to say be very careful, there is no do overs here. I'm gladly popping my Xaralto as the other side is a scary place to be.

Bell Well,

McHale



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2013 12:28PM by McHale.

McHale - My personal experience ....in case you forget... is that after my ablation and I was by then off coumadin, I had a breakthrough AF event that had to be cardioverted. A week later I had a spiral CT scan as was the requisite protocol at that time prior to seeing Dr. Natale for the post-ablation checkup.
At the time, he reviewed the CT scan to see if there was evidence of pulmonary stenosis - which was a concern (then) because they did ablate near and around the pulmonary veins in ('03) and while the CT scan did show there was a clot in the LAA, nothing was said about to me.

About six weeks later, I received my copy of the CT scan report which indicated a clot in the LAA. At that time, I phoned his EP nurse who was shocked when I told her about the clot findings and said he'd talk with Dr. Natale. I commented to her that it was a good thing I had been on Nattokinase or I might not have been around to be making the phone call. In the return call, she said that she and Dr. Natale ..."chuckled and said that Nattokinase had obviously done it's job." I wasn't laughing but I was silently giving Nattokinase the 'high-five"...!!!!

(So just as in the petri dish experiment.. the clot was dissolved) since over 10 years later... I'm here ...alive and well... to offer testimony as to the efficacy of Nattokinase. Of course, prior to that and since then, I have always monitored the other important inflammation markers that contribute to thick, sticky blood which most individuals do not do because their physicians aren't on the cutting edge of preventive measures to control the clotting risk factors in arrhythmia patients.... which (to me) belies the intention of Standard of Care.

Hyperviscosity of blood is a major concern for all individuals whether or not they have afib, but those who do have afib need to be particularly aware and do the appropriate testing as preventive insurance.

Even thought I have a low platelet count and don't tolerate well or easily Rx anticoagulant drugs, that doesn't mean I am exempt from adverse clotting. Therefore, using full-dosing Nattokinase protocols has been my choice for 12 years... sanctioned by my Functional Medicine MD and in collaboration with Nattokinase expert, Ralph Holsworth, DO. I feel comfortable with the protection afforded and the science behind Nattokinase

That said, I encourage anyone with arrhythmia to insist on monitoring their blood viscosity risk factor markers and take all the measures necessary to get them in the normal ranges to avoid TIA, stroke, MI. There is no way one can 'guess' that their diet and lifestyle (or environment) does not impact or influence blood hyper-viscosity. Why wait until there is an emergency or a clamity? Prevention and awareness become the operative words.

If testing indicates that any of viscosity markers are out of range, then correcting an essential top priority. Nattokinase can help with elevated fibrinogen but the other marker influences need to be managed individually... Cardiac or High Sensitivity C-reactive Protein, Fibrinogen, Ferritin, Homocysteine, IL-6, Lipoprotein(a), Hemoglobin A-1C, Oxidized LDL.. are the major markers.

Consider these important markers for your "owner's manual"... you don't let your car go without the critical maintenance checks so why let your body? If your doctor doesn't know about them or won't order them, find another doctor. Prevention beats an emergency every time and when you have a condition such as arrhythmia that sets the stage to promote a potentially-severe complication to an existing hyperviscosity condition (thick, sticky blood and silent inflammation), you are playing Russian Roulette.

Awareness and prevention is my motto and should be every afibber's as well.

Jackie

Jackie,
Actually that's great information to know because when Natale and I decide to get off Xarelto I will seek out a Hematologist to check all these markers.
Actually wearing my LifeWatch 24/7 monitor now to monitor for any arrhythmia's especially silent for my 6 month Followup.
So far so good as Natales magic touch is holding. I have cut out Taurine because I believe it was exciting my heart too much causing ectopics.

McHale



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2013 01:24PM by McHale.

Jackie,

RE: "About six weeks later, I received my copy of the CT scan report which indicated a clot in the LAA. At that time, I phoned his EP nurse who was shocked when I told her about the clot findings and said he'd talk with Dr. Natale. I commented to her that it was a good thing I had been on Nattokinase or I might not have been around to be making the phone call. In the return call, she said that she and Dr. Natale ..."chuckled and said that Nattokinase had obviously done it's job." I wasn't laughing but I was silently giving Nattokinase the 'high-five"...!!!! "

You were taking Natto and a blot clot still formed in your LAA. So I am wondering why you think Natto is any good at preventing clots. I posted the same question on the Aspririn thread and you may not have noticed and didn't answer. I don't understand the mechanism of how Natto interferes with clot formation. The Japanese papers I have reviewed hand-wave about the mechanism so they don't know the mechanism either.

By the way, for those interested in taking Natto. Red fermented tofu in glass jars are available at Asian food stores. It is potent stuff and spells like Miso concentrate except stronger smelling. There is also Miso soup. I take daily 81 mg aspirin.

McHale and Jackie, I am very interested in McHale's comment about Taurine. I am taking 3000mg a day as part of The Strategy; but I had never heard about it's ability to excite. As I have stated before, I have an irregular heartbeat 24/7 but most of the time I don't notice it. When I am "aware of my heartbeat," I assume that is when I have ectopics or rapid heart rate. There doesn't seem to be any pattern, time of day, etc., except when I get stressed about something.

McHale, how did you determine it was the Taurine that was causing ectopics? Maybe I should go down to 2000 mg.

Thank you!
Louise

Just to complicate things further, I looked up stroke studies and statistics on Japan vs other developed countries. Still at it and in the mean time found the following study comparing native Japanese ro Japanese descendents living in Hawaii to confuse things even more. The one clear thing is to keep your BP in control and move to paradise if you can.

Stroke. 1984 Jan-Feb;15(1):15-23.
Epidemiologic studies of coronary heart disease and stroke in Japanese men living in Japan, Hawaii and California: incidence of stroke in Japan and Hawaii.

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
======================================================================================
Takeya Y, Popper JS, Shimizu Y, Kato H, Rhoads GG, Kagan A.
Abstract
As part of the Ni-Hon-San Study, stroke incidence was compared in the Japan and Hawaii cohorts. Stroke cases were classified in two types, intracranial hemorrhage (ICH) and thrombo-embolic stroke (T-E). For each type the incidence in Japan was about three times as great as in Hawaii. The ratio ICH/T-E was 1/2.2 and 1/1.6 in Japan and Hawaii, respectively. Blood pressure was the most important risk factor, followed by age for total stroke in both Japan and Hawaii. Proteinuria was also a risk factor in Hawaii. Conversely, an index of animal food intake was inversely related to total stroke, significantly in Hawaii, and at a suggestive level for total and hemorrhagic stroke in Japan. Since the levels of blood pressure do not differ between Japan and Hawaii, one possible explanation for the large difference in stroke incidence between the two cohorts may be the fact that animal protein and saturated fat intake, which is inversely associated with stroke incidence, is much greater in Hawaii than in Japan. This explanation would support epidemiologic and experimental studies in Japan which suggest that dietary animal protein and fat exert an inhibitory effect on the incidence of stroke.

PMID: 6695420 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Free full text



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2013 12:23PM by researcher.

Good find researcher,, another good indicator that solid animal protein and saturated fat is not the culprit so mistakenly assumed over the last 30 years as promoted by the powers that be in big pharma and the unside down dietary pyramid extolling the low fat, high carb craze disaster.

Shannon

McHale – I apologize that my recount of my LAA clot was not clearly descriptive... In re-reading, I found it somewhat ambiguous.

It is not my intention to infer that nattokinase is superior to anticoags… rather that it offers an alternative approach to managing fibrinogen… just one of several of the contributors to hyperviscosity or hypercoaguable blood.

In my LAA clot situation, I was off Coumadin by then and using full-dose Nattokinase. When I posted about clot formation at the time, I believe Hans offered a report indicating that the ECV, itself, is known to cause clots. My point is that had I not been using NK at that time, and if the clot had travelled beyond the LAA, I could have had a big problem. and for that, I was thankful for the efficacy of the NK enzyme…. especially since no one alerted me to it until 6 weeks after the CT scan findings.

With your history, I do hope that you have all of the relevant viscosity tests and I wish you well.

However, if you want verification on the power of these fibrinolytic enzymes, you can read the comments of Garry Gordon, MD who relates that he only uses the natural fibrinolytic and proteolytic enzymes for all of his heart patients and has not had a heart attack or stroke in any patients for what must now be close to 30 years as a clinician. www.gordonresearch.com He recommends Lumbrokinase and nattokinase and a specific anti-inflammatory protocol.

Louise – on taurine… some individuals do find that it can be somewhat excitatory. Others, though, really need the action of taurine to help direct the flow of electrolytes in and out of heart cells and didn’t find relief from afib until they maximized taurine dosing. Once again.. this is the ‘experiment of one’ phenomena so common with AF because of the obvious differences between patients…ie, biochemical/bioelectrical individuality. Early on in my afib researching career, one of the reports I read indicated that for arrhythmias, you can’t make any progress without taurine. I became a fan and still use it today but in smaller doses than initially.

Researcher… sorry that I missed your initial question…and as to the clot after the ECV… my response to McHale addresses the tendency for electrocardioversion to promote clots. I’m just relieved that the clot remained stationary and didn’t propel out of the LAA chamber and that the enzymatic activity slowly lysed away the fibrin network.

Jackie

After having a very minor stroke 18 months ago, I reluctantly went back on Coumadin. Would it be possible to start taking 100 mg of Nattokinase while continuing to take Coumadin?

Josiah

Shannon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good find researcher,, another good indicator that
> solid animal protein and saturated fat is not the
> culprit so mistakenly assumed over the last 30
> years as promoted by the powers that be in big
> pharma and the unside down dietary pyramid
> extolling the low fat, high carb craze disaster.
>
> Shannon


This is why life has become so confusing. Saturated fats have been linked to the higher likelihood of certain cancers. Saturated fats may prove to be beneficial for stroke reduction, but how much becomes too much? Nattokinase reduces fibrinogen, but, as in my case, how much is needed to reduce stroke risk when one experiences inflammation surges from the common cold and arthritis flares, which increase fibrinogen baselines dramatically.

Every so often my blood pressure is all over the place...for months first thing in the AM it was routinely 120/70, now it's 140/90, yet falls in the PM. Sometimes the systolic is less than 120...what my genius cardio wants me to do is take enough to keep the pressure very low...which makes my life miserable as it falls too much at times. There is no easy answer to any of this. Higher blood pressure (the sliding scale of risk) is a marker for increased risk of stroke, but is it actually a direct contributer to the risk, or only a common companion symptom? Are the risks associated with high blood pressure equal for those who are sedendary and indulge in fast foods, for example, vs those who exercise and eat well? European countries generally don't treat high blood pressure unless it is over 140/90, yet here anything over 125 systolic is considered high...what's up with that?

Have any of you noticed that the most commonly used calculators for heart disease risk, including the recently released controversial calc, don't factor in weight, diet, exercise or LDL? Why not?

So many of my older relatives lived to be in their late eighties and nineties and ate whatever they wanted, but none were fast-food types. Yes, most had minor strokes after achieving that age, but so what? There is little of us that isn't fragile at that stage of life.

Am I the only one who has little confidence in the advise given by big medicine or the supplement industry? It seems that no matter what we do, a few years later we find that the advice we were given becomes faulty, even counter-productive. My own experience with supplements has been disappointing to say the least.

Fortunately, the mechanical processes of surgery, including ablations, are straight-forward enough to gauge success and allow rational decision-making.

End rant...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2013 08:55PM by Tom B.

TomB, I agree. I am 64 and since I turned 30 all I heard was calcium, calcium, calcium. Now it turns out I probably took too much. But that's why I like this forum so much. All that information comes the AMA, who we are to believe "know everything."

I think back in the day of "Dr. Welby," people didn't rely on doctors for every little ache and pain, giving them reason to drug us. Now, anyone you talk to knows the names of all the heart medicines, anti-depressants, blood thinners, etc. because big pharma advertises on TV, listing symptoms that almost everyone could relate to at some time or another and send them rushing to "drug up!"

I have become interested in supplements because of personal experiences reported here -- no one is advertising here for financial gain; and there are few side effects that I know of unless one were to "hysterically" start popping every supplement they hear of simultaneously.

As for your statement "Fortunately, the mechanical processes of surgery, including ablations, are straight-forward enough to gauge success and allow rational decision-making," I don't really agree with that given the number of people here who have had numerous ablations and still have afib.

It certainly is all confusing.

Louise

Louise Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> As for your statement "Fortunately, the mechanical
> processes of surgery, including ablations, are
> straight-forward enough to gauge success and allow
> rational decision-making," I don't really agree
> with that given the number of people here who have
> had numerous ablations and still have afib.
>
.
>
> Louise

Hi, Louise
I didn't imply that surgery was always successful or the best solution for anyone, but the surgical success rates for different durations and type classification of afib are out there to be considered when making choices.on what course of action to take. The success rates for supplements, medication and the like are a bit more ambiguous, at best, and don't provide the individual with any kind of handle to determine the probability of a successful outcome -
Tom

Louise,
I've eliminated Taurine now about for about 12 days and my heart has been calm. I read that Taurine can be excitatory so I stopped as a test because I could see and feel all the extra beats between my R to R intervals so I'm sure it wasn't AFIB on my AliveCor monitor. I was getting them every 10 days or so especially after a workout.
I was also taking too much about 4-5000mg per day split am/pm. Or maybe at almost 6 months post-op the heart has really healed and settled down.
I'll try adding Taurine back at small doses maybe after the holidays.

McHale

Louise - If you can locate a nutritionally-oriented practitioner in your area... an MD, DO, ND or a CCN and some DCs...... you can have testing called Comprehensive Metabolic Profile that assesses how your body processes your foods, vitamins and minerals and evaluates where there are short-falls and over loads that can affect your health by imbalances...such as too much calcium intake will overpower magnesium and cause arrhythmias or bone spurs or calcified aortas and arteries etc.

It's unfortunate that the medical establishment has not advanced their knowlege of nutritional requirements for optimal body function ... but rather goes directly for pills and surgical procedures that either mask the symptoms of deficiencies that continue to smoulder behind the scenes.

Unfortunately, there isn't a nutritional clinician on every street corner so finding a knowledgeable one can be a challenge and then often insurance doesn't cover it, but if you can locate one, that route offers the very best and fastest assessment of what may be amiss or out of balance in your body and how to correct it nutritionally... because the body does run on nutrition from foods and adjunctive nutritional support from supplements. Many therapeutic applications of nutritient supplementation are commonly used and very successfully in those practices using advanced medical practices.

Jackie

Thanks Jackie for clarifying. It seems to me that Warfarin would have done a better job in preventing LAA clot formation whereas Natto may have helped you in dissolving the clot afterwards. Given the choice, I think preventing the clot formation in the first place would be a safer way to go. I am glad everything worked out for you in the end.

In a similar vane, it looks like the Watchman device is ready for prime time. FDA panel voted 13-1 in favor of approval.

[www.medscape.com]

Researcher.... this was post ablation at 103 days. ..... I had been released from taking warfarin. Went back on Nattokinase full dosing. Heart was calm. Then, had a breakthrough event and the instructions were then to call immediately and if not resolved by PIP... then to come in for cardioversion. No disussion about warfarin or anything else at the time. I was cardioverted the next day and the next week, I had the CT scan for the routine checkback.

Taking warfarin was not offered as part of the protocol. That's why I say I'm grateful that the NK was in place and working since no one knew the clot had formed.

Jackie