Persistent AFIB and Vitamin/supplement Regiment

After some "studying" this site yesterday, I see where many take suppplements. I would like to no more about this especially for someone who has Persistent AFIB.

I do have a chronic disease called Interstitial cystitis . I generally avoid caffiene, anything acidic like tomatoes or even a multi vitamin. Multivitamins contain Vitamin C which is acidic.

[www.livestrong.com]


I am doing much better with this Interstitial cystitis. My diet is my biggest help aide. I take Elmiron and also a small dose of Elavil (12.5 mg at bedtime) for Interstitial cystitis. My biggest issue is Penis Tip Pain which is better after 8 months of diet change and Elmiron and Elavil.

Any help/suggestions would be appreciated. I am fixing to try Ester C which is suppose to not be acidic.

Some quick observations for consideration:

I can't think of anything more beneficial than using the magnesium bicarbonate water which is highly alkalizing to tissue. It would help with your heart as well as the bladder. Check out this link as a start.... [www.afibbers.org] There is much more info if you type into the advanced search box here - all dates - and use the term WW or magnesium bicarbonate water. The WW is easy to make at home and very economical... plus highly effective for alkalinizing one's tissue.

Remember that all drugs are highly acidic and you list is extensive.

I presume you have been tested for Candida overgrowth?

Also, presume you have had many, many courses of antibiotics? Know that when you treat with antibiotics, long term, you destroy all the good bacteria in the intestine and that replacing the good, useful bowel flora with the use of high count probiotics is known to also help with bladder issues as the good bacteria migrate from the intestine to nearby areas such as bladder and improve health there as well.

You could also consider using a course MesoSilver.

Let's continue this exploration depending on your responses.

Jackie

Always tested negative for anything; Urine test and blood test. I have taken many antibiotocs but none since june 2013.

I went to 5 Urologist before I was actually tested for Interstitial cystitis, They did a Potassium Chloride Sensitivity Test to which I tested positive. I still have my "doubts" about this test but the IC diet ,Elmiron and Elavil have helped me tremendously. I am much better than I was in April of 2013. Penis tip irritation is still my biggest complaint but my Urologist says it is referrred pain from my bladder.

One plan of action I will do at times is to mix 1 teaspoon of Baking soda with 6-8 ounces of water for pain relief of the penis irritation; It does help.

[www.ichelp.org]

5 mg Valium a day as needed.
20 mg Prozac daily
15 mg Prevacid a day
60 cc shot of Testosterone Cypionate every 10 days. Testosterone is low due to schedule two narcotics.
.5 mg Arimidex 2x a week to keep Estrogen levels in check. T shots can cause rise in Estrogen.

100 mg Metoprolol ER 1x a day
25 mg HydroDiuril fluid pill 1x a day every 2 days.
Neurontin 900mg a day (for Neuropathic pain IC/CPPS)
800 mg of Magnesium daily . Different types
81 mg aspirin 1X a day. Heart Doctor order due to stent installed in Jan. 2012.
2.5 mg Eliquis 2X a day

Miralax 1x a day for constipation issues. I have tried so many different methods for Constipation since 2008. Fiber is in my diet but to much Fiber really Constipates me.




25 mg/hcr Fentanyl.patch changed every 2 days

1st ablation done Feb. 27, 2014 for Long term persistent AFIB Dr. Natale
2nd Ablation done June 16,2016 Dr. Natale LAA isolated



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2013 11:00AM by smackman.

Yes - well ... that list of meds is all acid-producing so you definitely need to alkalize. The WW would be perfect for you.
Read more here:
[www.afibbers.org]

You could also consider starting the probiotics because unless you intentionally ate fermented foods after the antibiotic treatments, it takes a very long time to re-establish abundant bowel flora. It certainly can't hurt.

Jackie

Jackie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes - well ... that list of meds is all
> acid-producing so you definitely need to alkalize.
> The WW would be perfect for you.
> Read more here:
> [www.afibbers.org]
> age=1
>
> You could also consider starting the probiotics
> because unless you intentionally ate fermented
> foods after the antibiotic treatments, it takes a
> very long time to re-establish abundant bowel
> flora. It certainly can't hurt.
>
> Jackie

Well, I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer but I struggle with reading all the material above and never seen anything about WW which you said would be perfect for me.

In laymens language, What is WW and how do I make/do this. I assume its all about Alkalyzing the body but what is used to do it or what is the formula? Thanks.

I'm very sorry. I apologize for the vague posting.

The magnesium bicarbonate water referenced as WW is the home made version of what is sold commercially under the names Unique Water (Australia) and Noah's Water from Adobe Springs in California. Probably 11-12 years ago, a former afibber, Erling Waller, after reading the remarkable studies and patent info on benefits of magnesium bicarbonate water by Russell Beckett, B.V.Sc., M.Sc., Ph.D. experimented and developed the method for making magnesium bicarbonate water at home. His 'recipe' or instructions have been posted here routinely and are now widely circulated on the Internet at various websites.

Because I had worked with him in experimenting with various batches using both plain Milk of Magnesia (MoM) liquid and magnesium hydroxide powder and to shorten the name from magnesium bicarbonate water... I dubbed it Waller Water or WW.

I'll post the formal instructions in a separate post. They should be updated anyway as now many of us are using the magnesium hydroxide powder rather than the liquid MoM and the component amounts are slightly different.

Drinking alkaline water is highly beneficial for overall health... as pointed out in that last link titled Alkalinity, Healing, pH and Voltage - The Inside Story
April 26, 2012.

Stand by... I'll post again soon... I'm out of time at the moment. I have no doubt but that making and consuming your own WW will be beneficial for you on on many levels.

Jackie

WW stands for 'Waller Water' named after the gentleman that shack ir mentioned above, Erling Waller, who used to post here frequently ... Just so you know what WW means. you can do advanced searches under 'Waller Water' and under 'Magnesium Bicarbonate', and you'll find more info than you could read in a month of Sundays.
Shannon

You can find the Waller water recipe at [afibbers.org].

Hans

Instructions for making Magnesium Bicarbonate Instructions (aka WW) ... slightly revised.

Smackman-

I had initially mentioned the alkalizing benefits for you from the WW but failed to mention that equally important is that this form of magnesium – the magnesium bicarbonate-- ion is most likely to provide the best possible magnesium delivery to the inside of cells (where it works). Note this clip on the magnesium bicarbonate water – Unique Water from Australia and keep in mind that your heart is a muscle dependent upon ATP production:

"Magnesium bicarbonate is a complex hydrated salt that exists only in water under specific
conditions. It does not occur in a solid form. Water containing magnesium bicarbonate is
considered to be appropriately mineralised. Indeed, medical research from many countries has
demonstrated that people live longer when they drink water that is appropriately mineralised.

When consumed, magnesium bicarbonate rapidly enters body cells. This occurs because magnesium is an
intracellular element and magnesium functions as a bicarbonate co-transporter into cells.

Magnesium bicarbonate increases considerably the energy production in body cells. This energy
increase occurs in several ways. First, magnesium bicarbonate protects the natural organic and
inorganic phosphate buffers in the cytoplasm of cells. This is important, particularly in muscle cells
and brain cells (neurons). Second, magnesium bicarbonate neutralises the acid produced as a result
of metabolic processes and ATP hydrolysis. This allows more ATP to be hydrolysed; that is, more
energy can be utilised. Third, magnesium bicarbonate buffers the mitochondria in body cells from
excess acid concentrations which improves mitochondrial function and allows more ATP to be
produced. When more ATP can be hydrolysed and more ATP can be produced, body cells have
sufficient energy for optimum function. When body cells have optimum function, the energy levels
and the physical performance of the body are enhanced. See Appendix for details of magnesium
bicarbonate and mitochondrial function.

During strenuous types of exercise, muscle metabolism can increase to sixty times normal. This
increase is higher than the corresponding increase in blood flow which increases to twenty times
normal. As a result, carbon dioxide concentrations increase greatly in muscle cells and tissues
during strenuous exercise and add to the acid load in the muscles. Normally, muscle cells contain
concentrations of organic and inorganic phosphates that are able to buffer the acid load in
exercising muscles. Indeed, there are about twenty times the concentrations of phosphates inside
cells than there are outside cells. However, during strenuous exercise the phosphate buffers are
overwhelmed and the muscles become acidic. Muscle acidity results in poor performance and
fatigue. "
Source: [190.69.90.58]


History for the homemade version of Magnesium bicarbonate water
The initial experiments to formulate the Magnesium bicarbonate water (WW) used both the liquid magnesium hydroxide form of plain Milk of Magnesia..(no flavorings) and Seltzer water… (not club soda). A powdered form of magnesium hydroxide was also used. After many years of using the liquid MoM and recently having it not be available in the unflavored form or not available at all, the magnesium hydroxide powder was brought back into use and is actually the preferred ingredient as it seems to provide a more complete reaction. It’s been noted that perhaps the liquid MoM is diluted significantly enough to cause less of a fully-reacted end result.

I’ve cannibalized the original WW instructions to help guide you. It’s still basically the same for making the WW for either magnesium form. Here are my informal instructions – if this is not clear, send me a Private Message and I’ll help you.

Jackie

Ingredients

• Seltzer water – not club soda. Either 1- or 2-liter bottles.

• Either unflavored, plain liquid Milk of Magnesia
or
Bulk powdered Magnesium hydroxide… which should be USP grade to eliminate the risk of impurities.

(You can Google “USP grade magnesium hydroxide” for sources or check with your local pharmacist to see if it can be ordered in a bulk quantity for you at a reasonable cost versus Internet ordering).

Instructions

1. Chill the Seltzer.

2. Because either form of the magnesium hydroxide is reactive when added to the carbonated water, you’ll need to pour out some and save to add back later so for either powder or liquid—pour and save into a measuring cup with a pouring spout about 2-3 inches of Seltzer to be added back to the bottle…(or use a funnel).

3. For the powder, just add to the reserved seltzer…stir …and pour that solution back into the seltzer bottle… slowly to avoid “roiling” out of the bottle. Amount is 7.2 grams or 2 1/3 to 2 ½ teaspoons (for 2 liters or half that for 1 liter). If you use a formal cooking teaspoon, then level off the top with a knife parallel to the spoon edges. (or weigh it).

4. For the liquid MoM, if no marked dosing cup is provided, then use an accurate measuring device and add the liquid MoM to the reserved seltzer as directed for the powder version… either 3 tablespoons or 6 tablespoons mix and add back the reserved mixture back into the bottle – slowly – or it will overflow. (or after removing and saving the reserve amount, you can just add slowly the MoM liquid right to the seltzer but it will roil quickly go slowly.)

Magnesium hydroxide quantities

7,200 mg (7.2 grams) of Mg hydroxide (from MoM or powder) per 2 liters Seltzer (3.6 grams for 1 liter Seltzer) is the basic WW 'recipe'

-- 7.2 grams Mg hydroxide from MoM = 6 tablespoons of the liquid -- (or half that for 1 liter)

-- 7.2 grams Mg hydroxide powder = 2 1/3 to 2 1/2 teaspoons USP powder (or half that for 1 liter)


Erling based his calculations using a digital 'gram scale' (see details in end notes).

5. Tighten the cap and shake gently until mixed. Another option is to place the bottle on a flat surface and roll it gently to mix. Refrigerate again and check in an hour or so to see if the cloudy mixture is clearing. Agitate gently periodically.

If there is some small amount of unreacted crystal residue at the bottom that didn’t go into solution, shake again but if crystals remain, it doesn’t matter. The variance can be the carbonated water charge or sometimes slightly too much liquid magnesium hydroxide. It’s a non-issue unless a very large amount remains unreacted, but I’ve never had that happen.

Be aware that while the reaction is occurring, the bottle sides will cave in. Less so with the liquid MoM than with the powder.

6. Add the concentrate to your drinking water. No need to chill the concentrate or the final WW product.

7. Making WW essentially identical to Unique Water: Dilute the concentrate 11 to 1 with plain water.
-- Example: 1 oz. concentrate + 11 oz. water = 12 oz. WW, which is a bit more than 1/3 liter or 1/3 quart.
-- Example: 3 oz. concentrate + 33 oz. water = 36 oz. WW, which is a bit more than 1 liter (34 oz) or 1 quart (32 oz.).
-- Example: 11 oz. concentrate + 121 oz. water = 132 oz. WW, which is close to 4 liters (135 oz) or 1 gallon (128 oz).


WW analysis:
Magnesium 125 mg/L (calculated)
Bicarbonate 751 mg/L (Evergreen Analytical Labs, Wheatridge, Colorado, Dec 5, '02)
pH 8.63 (Evergreen Analytical Labs, Dec 5, '02)

WW cost per liter / quart: about 7 cents


Be aware of these tips offered in the formal instructions posted by Erling in the UW to WW 2012 post found at this link.
[www.afibbers.org]

-- WW's flavor is typical of naturally occurring magnesium-bicarbonate spring waters, such as from Adobe Springs.

-- This slightly alkaline magnesium-bicarbonate water should be consumed throughout the day.

-- A person not used to drinking much water should begin by consuming small daily amounts of WW, gradually increasing to the ideal consumption of 1 1/2 to 2 liters / quarts per day. See recommendations for ‘Unique Water’ at [web.archive.org]

-- Magnesium dissolved in water (ionized), as in WW, is considerably more ‘bio-assimilable’ than the magnesium in most solid tablets or capsules.

-- Recommended reading: Information and recommendations pertaining to "Unique Water" are the same for WW. The consumer of WW is encouraged to read the literature at "Non Pharmaceutical Health Care and Unique Water" [web.archive.org]


Endnotes:

7.2 grams Mg hydroxide powder = 2 1/3 to 2 1/2 teaspoons USP powder from Fagron (purchase through a pharmacy [www.fagron.com] ) as determined using an accurate digital 'gram scale' (AWS-600 @ [www.amazon.com] ) ($14.20 + shipping)

Fagron USP Mg hydroxide powder @ Portland OR Kroger pharmacy = $29.09 / 500 gram = 6 cents / gram


Costs of finished product:
-- 7.2 grams powder per 2 liters concentrate x 6 cents per gram = 43 cents per 2 liters concentrate, and per 24 liters WW -- or a bit less than 2 cents per liter WW-- 7.2 grams powder per 2 liters concentrate x 6 cents per gram = 43 cents per 2 liters concentrate, and per 24 liters WW -- or a bit less than 2 cents per liter WW. Add the cost of Seltzer and WW from USP powder costs about 4 cents per liter vs. about 7 cents per liter WW using MoM.

Add the cost of Seltzer and WW from USP powder costs about 4 cents per liter vs. about 7 cents per liter WW using MoM.

You are a prime candidate for a juicer. Juicing two to three times a day can and will eventually alkalize the body, but it takes time.

I've read that lemon water alkalizes -- since I drink a lot of (hot) water, should I put lemon in it?

Louise

Louise - This is true that lemon alkalizes... a caveat or two, though.

If your water is fluoridated, adding lemon potentiates the fluoride absorption so best not to 1) drink fluoridated water... and 2) never add lemon if you decide to drink it anyway.

The other point is lemon is highly acidic to tooth enamel and can cause erosion. Once the lemon juice is in the stomach, it metabolizes to alkaline ash so it is definitely alkalizing.....just harmful to your teeth to drink it regularly with either cold or hot water...or as some do, suck on lemon wedges. In the clinical setting, I've seen lots of cases of enamel erosion when people do that on a regular basis.

Jackie

I have made the "concentrate" using unflavored MoM and 1 liter od Seltzer water. I want to make sure I use this right. Is this the way I mix it to drink it? It also says I should wait 24 hours before use the concentrate to make sure it is completely dissolved?
Another question: The ph of my drinking water is around 8-8.2. I have a hot tub and have to use acid to bring down ph to 7.5. Will this matter when I mix it? I have a filter so my water has the chlorine basically removed.

Thanks in advance

.

Step 4. Making WW essentially identical to Unique Water: Dilute the concentrate 11 to 1 with plain water.
-- Example: 1 oz. concentrate + 11 oz. water = 12 oz. WW, which is a bit more than 1/3 liter or 1/3 quart.
-- Example: 3 oz. concentrate + 33 oz. water = 36 oz. WW, which is a bit more than 1 liter (34 oz) or 1 quart (32 oz.).
-- Example: 11 oz. concentrate + 121 oz. water = 132 oz. WW, which is close to 4 liters (135 oz) or 1 gallon (128 oz).

=========================================================================================

WW analysis:
Magnesium 125 mg/L (calculated)
Bicarbonate 751 mg/L (Evergreen Analytical Labs, Wheatridge, Colorado, Dec 5, '02)
pH 8.63 (Evergreen Analytical Labs, Dec 5, '02)

Smackman.... you dilute the concentrate... follow that chart. Once you know how you are going to store the diluted version and the size of the storage vessel... then use that chart that you duplicated in your last response. I have a 40 oz pitcher that I leave on the countertop so WW's always available... it holds about 40 ounces...so I add the 3 ounces plus a bit more. I just eyeball the difference.

Keep in mind that George N. uses just the concentrate without dilution and he has not reported ill effects although his eating plan is acid producing so undoubtedly, he needs the extra alkalinity.

Clarify for me that your water before the filter is 8.0 to 8.2 and then you have to add acid just for the hot tub itself? or you are treating your whole house water with acid. Sorry for the question but I want to get it correct. Chlorine makes water acidic but you're removing the chlorine by filtering?

If you refer to the Alkalinity post I referenced. You'll see that Dr. Tennant says that people need to drink alkaline water to stay healthy...

Here's a clip:

Another point on stomach acid. … Alkaline Water

People don’t often understand what happens when you drink alkaline water. They say,” If I drink alkaline water, it will just dilute my stomach acid and make my digestion worse,” but that’s not the way it works at all.

Whenever anything goes into the stomach, if you have the ability to make adequate amounts of stomach acid, your stomach acid will go to a pH of 2. So if I put alkaline water in my stomach, I’m going to make a whole lot more stomach acid in order to get down to the pH of 2.

It’s important to recognize that every time you make a molecule of hydrochloric acid, you simultaneously put a molecule of sodium bicarbonate out into the blood and that’s the way that the blood gets more alkaline and has more electrons.

If I put a coca cola in my stomach, then I don’t have to make as much hydrochloric acid to get to a pH of 2 and therefore I get less sodium bicarbonate inserted into my blood (less alkalinity). This is one of the reasons why it’s important to drink the alkaline water.

====

I'll be away from my computer much of tomorrow...so don't think I'm ignoring your reply.

I'd start with a normal batch of the diluted version... and just ease into drinking it slowly as mentioned in the directions. Remember it does deliver magnesium more efficiently and you may find there is some influence on bowel function...so start with small doses and work up... that way your entire system can adapt and benefit.

Jackie

My PH of my Tap Water is around 8 - 8.2. I only put Acid into my Hot Tub to lower the PH.
I do have a filter where I get my drinking water; This filter does remove the chlorine,etc. but the PH is still 8-8.2. My tap water has always been high.

Actually, Chlorine will raise the PH. Chlorine has a PH of 11.6.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2013 12:05PM by Hans Larsen.

I started drinking the "unique" water today. I drink water all the time. I will easily consume 2 liters in a day and it will not be enough.
Am I suppose to limit myself to 2 liters a day? I actually probably consume 3-4 liters of water a day because I mainly drink only water because of my Intertestial Cystitus.

I do not want to drink to much of the unique formula.

Smackman...thanks for the clarification. If I were in your place, I'd with start with just one or two glasses (8 oz or less) each day of the magnesium bicarbonate water and keep tabs on what changes. Interstitial cystitis is said to be from an overly acidic bladder (tissue)... adding the magnesium bicarb very well could alkalize your overall body tissue much better than just your tap water alone. If all goes well and the WW doesn't cause bowel issues for you, then increase by another glass of that but go slowly so you recognize if there is by chance an incompatibility. You may not tolerate more than 4 glasses a day.

It could turn out that since you are already drinking alkaline water, it may be better for you to get more of your magnesium from suppments such as the magnesium glycinate chelate version even though the magneisum bicarbonate is a most beneficial elixir... if you can't tolerate adding much of the WW. Without having your water tested to know the mineral content...such as magnesium, calcium, sodium etc... we can't guess as to what's alkalizing it naturally.

Those are my immediate thoughts ... I'll send you a PM if I think of more relevant details.

In any event, ythe intracellular magnesium levels in your in heart cells needs to be optimized...continually and the WW is an easy way for most of us to get that along with the beneficial bicarbonate delivery.

Jackie

I drank approx 60 ounces of the MoM water yesterday with no issues. Will continue today.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2013 10:25AM by Hans Larsen.